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Quote (gollamudi @ June 12 2009,17:13) I am not telling that the historicity of Jesus life is wrong but I want to say that we can not make these Gospel stories historical in full which were written decades of years after they actually taken place. Some of these narrations mostly developed from the tradition taken from the Jewish scriptures which can not be proved by anybody with literal application.
Hi GM,
So God did not inspire the writers to write truthfully.
We can expect you to stop quoting it then?If you knew the Spirit you would know how the beauty of the NT was given through these simple fishermen and unlearned men.
Nick……….All scripture in it original form is inspired by GOD, but the Apostate Church has changed many parts, by adding words and punctuations and even whole sentences and even taking several out of the original text, You could really help yourself by reading the book “misquoting Jesus”. You, yourself twist scripture by saying the WORD SATAN is not a descriptor, but a actual being, no matter how much PROOF has been given. So while you say” if you knew the Spirit you would know how the beauty of the NT was given through these simple fishermen and unlearned men”. Of course the assumption your making here is that you do, when in fact you don't seem to understand near what you would have us believe you do and that is obvious not only to me but many others also, or you would niot have to personally attack people here. IMO
peace and love………………………gene
G,
Would you rather we should believe you than sacred scripture?
Hardly as you do not even align with it.Nick…….. Believe what ever you want i could care less what you believe. Prove where i don't align with scripture instead of just mouthing off. If you say we are not align with scripture then you are in obligation to prove it, What you are really saying we don't align with what you think would be more accurate, and seeing you can't prove it , then that leaves us only one conclusion , and that is, its just your mouthing and personal attack is what you really care about. Truth has no interest to you it appears, just parroting what you do not understand . I have never ask you or anyone else to believe me , if you suggest such then you are just a LIAR. Believe what is written (WITH UNDERSTANDING) IS WHAT COUNTS. Parrots are useless in discerning Scripture. IMO
peace and love……………………….gene
Sura #21
90 So We listened to him: and We granted him Yahya(John): We cured his wife's (Barrenness) for him. These (three) were ever quick in emulation in good works; they used to call on Us with love and reverence, and humble themselves before Us.
91 And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.Nick………. who boasts of their understanding, Its you who does that not anyone else here, and if what i believe, is according to my own words and those align with what scriptures says and you say they don't then you are under obligation to PROVE IT, not just mouth off some personal attacks about what you think we are doing. Nick your all talk no substance to backup what your saying, your using your position to intimidate people, when they disagree with you, I don't see the love for truth in you responses at all. It doesn't appear you really care about the truth at all, just (YOUR) perception of it. Many here have shown and explained lots of scriptures , but you refuse to even consider there post or the proof they use to back them up. Is it because they did not come from YOU? IMO.
peace and love…………………………..gene
Hi,
Jesus was born of a virgin according to scripture.,
But some do not believe scripture yet claim to be faithful?HI ………..The actual word used in the Hebrew is young women or lass or maiden , not virgin as translators have translated it, while in Israel the word damsel or Maiden or young women would most likely be a virgin , The word itself is young women or Maiden. And confusing what GOD told the KING of Judah AHAZ, through the Prophet Issiah about a sign given Him by GOD, that a Maiden would conceive a son and His name shall be Emanuel , which means GOD is with US, and applying that to the Berth of Jesus is in itself a leap of “faith”.
Let read Isa 7:14. Therefore the Lord himself shall give you (AHAZ) a sign, Behold a maiden shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name IMMANUEL. Now look up that name and you will find it was the name of Isaiah's son.
peace and love…………………..gene
G,
Translated it?
It is not a translation of what was already written.It confirms it and adds more detail.
Gene wrote:
Quote Let read Isa 7:14. Therefore the Lord himself shall give you (AHAZ) a sign, Behold a maiden shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name IMMANUEL. Now look up that name and you will find it was the name of Isaiah's son.
That is not correct. Isaiah' son is named Mahershalalhashbaz(Quick to Plunder, Swift to Spoil).. I also have no idea if the prophetess was young or not.
Isaiah 8:3(KJV) reads:
Quote And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz.
Kerwin……….So what does Isa 7:14 say, this is what i was committing on, not Isa 8:3. does that do away with what is written in Isa 7:14 then?
peace and love ………………….gene
Thanks for that good post brother Gene. Brother Nick is naming me as the false believer of the scriptures. I want to ask him which part of the scriptures are inspired by God. I don't blame God for human errors as often I quote here. I can not take everything in the N.T as inspired by God. I can not apply everything literally. For example see the narrations on the death,resurrection and ascention of Jesus how the Gospel writers have differently narrated if they are really inspired where is the question of contradictions. John says Jesus was to ascend to Father on the same day (Easter day) where as Luke say he had ascended only after 40 days after resurrection. Paul says in resurrection the body will be entirely different from the mortal flesh and blood. But the Gospel writers like Luke and John says he was resuurected with the same body even with wounds of crucifixion. No Jew can agree with such contradictions. Therefore I don't take everything as inspired and literal. But I do interpret them as Jewish writers of N.T have developed the stories of historical Jesus with the help of Jewish scriptures, traditions and through the oral stories available at that time. Therefore the story of historical Jesus varies from Mark to John. The earliest N.T writer Paul never quotes about Jesus birth as if it was of some miraculous background. Even the resurrection acounts are entirely different. Hope others also will see as I am seeing the N.T through Jewish eyes.
Peace and love
AdamQuote (Gene @ June 15 2009,21:44) Kerwin……….So what does Isa 7:14 say, this is what i was committing on, not Isa 8:3. does that do away with what is written in Isa 7:14 then? peace and love ………………….gene
My point is simply that there is not proof that Isaiah 8:3 is a fulfillment of the prophecy in Isaiah 7:14. I believe that if we examine it closer we will find that Isaiah 8:3 cannot be a fulfilment as the Mahershalalhashbaz may have been too old when this scripture was fulfilled.Isaiah 7:16(KJV) reads:
Quote For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
So when was both Judah and Isreal befit of both of its kings and how old was Mahershalalhashbaz at that time?
Kerwin….you can torque it any way you want but the bottom line is it is written in scripture and it dose not do away with Isa 7:16and can, not be abruptly dismissed to fit own own views brother. The Land, Ahaz abhorred was not Judah , but the Kingdom of Israel and the confederation they mad with the other Kingdoms to go up and attack Judah. Those land would be would be these land kings would be desolved, Before the child know to refuse the evil and choose the good. IMO
peace and love…………………gene
Gene wrote:
Quote The Land, Ahaz abhorred was not Judah , but the Kingdom of Israel and the confederation they mad with the other Kingdoms to go up and attack Judah.
I am sorry I became confused when God called their land the land of two kings. The lands were actually Israel and Aram not Israel and Judah.
Still my question remains. When were those two kingdoms befit of their kings?
.My source has it that Damascus was conquered in in 732-733 BC and about eleven years latter Israel fell.
If we look at it that way then if the boy was born in 733 BC then he would have been eleven years old by the time Israel fell. In 721BC Ahaz would have still been king though Pekah was usurped by Hoshea who was the last king of Israel.
So the question is when Isaiah gave this prophecy. Pekah who is the son of Remaliah reigned from 740BC to 731 BC and Aram Damascus fell in 732-733 so the window is for the prophecy is from about 740BC to 732BC which means the child of the prophetess and Isaiah could have been from 11 to 19 years old by the time both kingdoms fell. I can limit that window a little more since Ahaz took the throne in 735-736BC which would put the boy at no more than 15 a possible candidate for the child prophesized of since I believe the Jews presently hold that 13 is the age at which the commands are binding on a child.
Of course both kingdoms had fallen by the time Jesus reached the age of 13.
That then brings up the question as to why Matthew, a Jew, applied that scripture to Jesus’ birth while Luke, a Gentile, did not.
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