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Quote (Colter @ Aug. 14 2013,12:55) I find Wakeups Trinity amusing. There is the Satan God, the Father God, and the floating spaceman Jesus God. Even Arius would be astonished by That. 
Colter
Colter.You said wakeup's TRINITY??
I dont believe in any trinity.
*This is what I believe*: I AM GOD,AND THERE IS NONE BESIDE ME. I DID IT ALL BY MY SELF.
MY RIGHT HAND DID IT.I,EVEN I AM THE LORD, AND BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOUR.
Does that look like a trinity?
wakeup.
Quote (Colter @ Aug. 14 2013,15:50) Maybe one day you will swallow your stubborn unbelief Thomas and God will grant you a vision of the Son of God (who is Lord and God) sitting in his rightful eternal abode. Plural deity is most certainly in Romes current bible.
Give me 3 witness scriptures then.Quote (t8 @ Aug. 14 2013,19:17) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 14 2013,15:50) Maybe one day you will swallow your stubborn unbelief Thomas and God will grant you a vision of the Son of God (who is Lord and God) sitting in his rightful eternal abode. Plural deity is most certainly in Romes current bible.
Give me 3 witness scriptures then.
Using Romes current Bible book list (for 300+ years there were other foundational books) then came the RCC I will reference the fragmnets.For explanitory purposes:
“It is always difficult for an emerging monotheism to tolerate trinitarianism when confronted by polytheism. The trinity idea takes best hold of those religions which have a firm monotheistic tradition coupled with doctrinal elasticity. The great monotheists, the Hebrews and Mohammedans, found it difficult to distinguish between worshiping three gods, polytheism, and trinitarianism, the worship of one Deity existing in a triune manifestation of divinity and personality.
Jesus taught his apostles the truth regarding the persons of the Paradise Trinity, but they thought he spoke figuratively and symbolically. Having been nurtured in Hebraic monotheism, they found it difficult to entertain any belief that seemed to conflict with their dominating concept of Yahweh. And the early Christians inherited the Hebraic prejudice against the Trinity concept.
Trinity Unity and Deity Plurality
Monotheism arose as a philosophic protest against the inconsistency of polytheism. It developed first through pantheon organizations with the departmentalization of supernatural activities, then through the henotheistic exaltation of one god above the many, and finally through the exclusion of all but the One God of final value.
Trinitarianism grows out of the experiential protest against the impossibility of conceiving the oneness of a deanthropomorphized solitary Deity of unrelated universe significance. Given a sufficient time, philosophy tends to abstract the personal qualities from the Deity concept of pure monotheism, thus reducing this idea of an unrelated God to the status of a pantheistic Absolute. It has always been difficult to understand the personal nature of a God who has no personal relationships in equality with other and co-ordinate personal beings. Personality in Deity demands that such Deity exist in relation to other and equal personal Deity.
Through the recognition of the Trinity concept the mind of man can hope to grasp something of the interrelationship of love and law in the time-space creations. Through spiritual faith man gains insight into the love of God but soon discovers that this spiritual faith has no influence on the ordained laws of the material universe. Irrespective of the firmness of man’s belief in God as his Paradise Father, expanding cosmic horizons demand that he also give recognition to the reality of Paradise Deity as universal law, that he recognize the Trinity sovereignty extending outward from Paradise and overshadowing even the evolving local universes of the Creator Sons and Creative Daughters of the three eternal persons whose deity union is the fact and reality and eternal indivisibility of the Paradise Trinity.
The original fragments of the earlier writings used by the Hebrew redactors shows signs of plural deity.
In Genesis 1:26 we read, “Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness'”. Genesis 3:22 “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil”
Elohim was a word denoting plurality of deity but a oneness, not a pantheistic idea.
Fragments of the truth of plural deity can be found in Davids thinking:
Psalm 110
1The Lord says to my lord,
‘Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies your footstool.’Jesus refers to himself as a personification of the Father that was the major reason the Jews rejected him and accused him of blasphemy. He did not misspeak nor did they misunderstand, he spoke the eternal truth. He was with God in the beginning as a personality reality.
“If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
But I know you will argue all these away to suit your unbelief.
Colter
“It has always been difficult to understand the personal nature of a God who has no personal relationships in equality with other and co-ordinate personal beings. Personality in Deity demands that such Deity exist in relation to other and equal personal Deity.”
…..THE Paradise Trinity of eternal Deities facilitates the Father’s escape from personality absolutism. The Trinity perfectly associates the limitless expression of God’s infinite personal will with the absoluteness of Deity. The Eternal Son and the various Sons of divine origin, together with the Conjoint Actor and his universe children, effectively provide for the Father’s liberation from the limitations otherwise inherent in primacy, perfection, changelessness, eternity, universality, absoluteness, and infinity.”
Colter
Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 14 2013,14:35) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 14 2013,12:55) I find Wakeups Trinity amusing. There is the Satan God, the Father God, and the floating spaceman Jesus God. Even Arius would be astonished by That. Colter
Colter.You said wakeup's TRINITY??
I dont believe in any trinity.
*This is what I believe*: I AM GOD,AND THERE IS NONE BESIDE ME. I DID IT ALL BY MY SELF.
MY RIGHT HAND DID IT.I,EVEN I AM THE LORD, AND BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOUR.
Does that look like a trinity?
wakeup.
You don't seem to know what you believe; your theology is an inconsistent mess! You believe Satan is God of this world and that he is doing the will of another, presumably lesser God…..and then there is the floating space man Jesus-God but no trinity???You need to take a vacation from religion and come back and start over again.
Colter
The doctrine of the trinity,is created by man
that cant seem to understand the mystery.Only the Holy spirit can reveal that,to whom God has chosen to reveal.
*NO ONE* knows the Son,and *NO ONE* knows the father,but *HE* whom the Son will reveal.Luke 10:22.THE DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY,IS *PROOF* THAT THE MYSTERY HAS NOT BEEN REVEALED TO THEM.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 15 2013,10:49) THE DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY,IS *PROOF* THAT THE MYSTERY HAS NOT BEEN REVEALED TO THEM.
How true.Quote (Colter @ Aug. 15 2013,01:57) In Genesis 1:26 we read, “Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness'”. Genesis 3:22 “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil” Elohim was a word denoting plurality of deity but a oneness, not a pantheistic idea.
Fragments of the truth of plural deity can be found in Davids thinking:
Psalm 110
1The Lord says to my lord,
‘Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies your footstool.’Jesus refers to himself as a personification of the Father that was the major reason the Jews rejected him and accused him of blasphemy. He did not misspeak nor did they misunderstand, he spoke the eternal truth. He was with God in the beginning as a personality reality.
“If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
But I know you will argue all these away to suit your unbelief.
Colter
Nothing here teaches the Trinity. Did you not know that it became an official doctrine around 300 years after the last book the bible was written, and the Holy Spirit was added as the third person some decades after the Binity.And all your so-called support verses are easily disproved. But for me to do it here would take too long, so instead I will give you this page which contains all relevant information.
https://heavennet.net/writings/supporting-the-trinity-doctrine/
And one of the best proofs against the Trinity is to read the Bible and replace the word 'God' for the word 'Trinity'.
e.g., For the Trinity gave his only begotten son that who ever shall believe in him (Trinity) shall have everlasting life.
So the Trinity has a son. And if Jesus is part of the Trinity, then he has a son. Doing this will break every scripture that has the word God in it.
And in many of the letters we see, God, Jesus and the Spirit.
So that is the Trinity plus Jesus and the Spirit?And is Jesus really the son OF himself if he is God.
The Trinity in the bible is ludicrous, ridiculous, and the only people who would naturally draw that conclusion is nobody. Instead you have to be indoctrinated by Babylon in order to see it.
How do you get vinegar from a sponge Colter?
You first soak in it vinegar.How do you get the Trinity from the Bible?
You first soak your understanding in Babylonian doctrine.Your Urantia has been soaked in vinegar. A sure sign of its origin.
Now for 3 witness scriptures that clearly show that the Bible does not teach Jesus as God himself.
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through
(Remember, “Let us make man in our image”?)Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
(Pretty clear aye? The ONLY TRUE GOD is not Jesus. It is his father.)The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
(God is clearly the Father).I could easily add hundreds more scriptures. If you want them, I can provide them.
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 15 2013,09:08) Now for 3 witness scriptures that clearly show that the Bible does not teach Jesus as God himself. yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through
(Remember, “Let us make man in our image”?)Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
(Pretty clear aye? The ONLY TRUE GOD is not Jesus. It is his father.)The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
(God is clearly the Father).I could easily add hundreds more scriptures. If you want them, I can provide them.
I've never said that Jesus was God the Father-(the first source and center) Jesus is the Son of God (thats not being a Son of himself) he is a personification of the Father, he was with the Father in the begining, in eternity.You have only proven that you don't understand the plurality of deity as a concept, you keep insisting that I'm promoting polytheism.
Honestly I think you don't really want to understand.
As with most anti devinity proponents, I notice you don't quote what Jesus said about himself, rather seconad hand human accounts.
For the most part Jesus maintained anonemity about his identity right up to the end when he claimed his rightful office.
But you still arn't going to get it, I do, many others do, maybe one day you will.
Colter
One has to wonder, Had you guys been Jews, if all of you would have rejected Jesus based on the same thick headed arguments? Wakeup would be out in the crowd screaming like a lunatic “crucify him”!!!!! t8 would play the part of Caiaphas, Mike would be Pilate, reasonable, unsure, not wanting the blood on his hands, try to avoid it but in the end……a cave in. Budhartha would be preocupied praying 5 times a day and beating his wife.
Colter
Colter. We accept that Jesus is the son of God by faith. How much more would we have accepted him if we were there to see the miracles and love that he had for his fellow brethren.
Your post is truly weak and lacking in substance.
I post this following diagram for you in order to guide you in making useful posts which is more helpful.
Notice how your rebuttal lies at the second tier of this pyramid.
Quote (Colter @ Aug. 15 2013,13:03) I've never said that Jesus was God the Father-(the first source and center) Jesus is the Son of God (thats not being a Son of himself) he is a personification of the Father, he was with the Father in the begining, in eternity.
You missed the point.God Jesus and the Spirit means that Jesus is not God.
You believe in a Trinity that includes Jesus as God.
No one is accusing you of saying that Jesus is the Father.
It is about Jesus being God. Scripture is clear. Jesus is the son of God. This is the foundation of the Church which is the Body of Christ. Whereas the Trinity is the foundation of the harlot church.
Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 14 2013,14:49) THE DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY,IS *PROOF* THAT THE MYSTERY HAS NOT BEEN REVEALED TO THEM.
It's also proof that the UB is flawed……… because it seems to also support the nonsensical notion of a triune Godhead.We have one God, the Father. Jesus is the Son of that one God – not another person within the same being.
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 15 2013,11:17) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 15 2013,13:03) I've never said that Jesus was God the Father-(the first source and center) Jesus is the Son of God (thats not being a Son of himself) he is a personification of the Father, he was with the Father in the begining, in eternity.
You missed the point.God Jesus and the Spirit means that Jesus is not God.
You believe in a Trinity that includes Jesus as God.
No one is accusing you of saying that Jesus is the Father.
It is about Jesus being God. Scripture is clear. Jesus is the son of God. This is the foundation of the Church which is the Body of Christ. Whereas the Trinity is the foundation of the harlot church.
Continuing to call my understanding of God to be a Harlet puts you in the “ass hat” range. So I can see why you benefit from the insightful ness of your pyramid.Jesus returned to the Father with all power and authority in heaven and on earth. You can dance all around that fact and delude yourself to your hearts content, one day you well wonder why you didn't see the obvious.
God is spirit, the Son personifies that spirit as Lord and God.
Quote (Colter @ Aug. 14 2013,17:10) Mike would be Pilate, reasonable, unsure, not wanting the blood on his hands, try to avoid it but in the end……a cave in. 
Colter, I can only believe what I read in the scriptures. And the scriptures teach of one God and Creator of all things………… and his servant who was sent into the world.So that's what I believe, because that's what the scriptures teach.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 15 2013,11:40) Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 14 2013,14:49) THE DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY,IS *PROOF* THAT THE MYSTERY HAS NOT BEEN REVEALED TO THEM.
It's also proof that the UB is flawed……… because it seems to also support the nonsensical notion of a triune Godhead.We have one God, the Father. Jesus is the Son of that one God – not another person within the same being.
You don't understand the Trinity of the UB, if you took the time to you would see that They are all one in divinity. So you are left with a temporary man God, that's why the Jews think you are an idiot.Colter
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 15 2013,11:45) Quote (Colter @ Aug. 14 2013,17:10) Mike would be Pilate, reasonable, unsure, not wanting the blood on his hands, try to avoid it but in the end……a cave in. Colter, I can only believe what I read in the scriptures. And the scriptures teach of one God and Creator of all things………… and his servant who was sent into the world.So that's what I believe, because that's what the scriptures teach.
That's why I think you would have rejected Jesus as a Jew because you can't get your head out of your indoctrination from the fetish of the scripture. You simply cannot get honest.Colter
Put it this way, When Satan began his rebellion against the Father concept in heaven, if he went to Jesus and asked the same question as Philip “show us the Father” Satan would have essentially received the same answer from Jesus “if you have seen me you have seen the Father, I am in the Father and the Father is in me.”
For Satan it was also a matter of Faith. He fell in love with his gifted brilliance and lost faith/trust in the spirit Father.
Colter
Quote (Colter @ Aug. 14 2013,18:51) That's why I think you would have rejected Jesus as a Jew because you can't get your head out of your indoctrination from the fetish of the scripture. You simply cannot get honest.
John 20:17
I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.Jesus and I have the same exact one and only God, Colter. That's about as honest as it gets.
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