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Nick………….Do you want me to rewrite the scripture so you can see it again , no, if you disagree with those scriptures that fine with me but to say i am reading between the lines, then why don't you tell what it means then instead of making snide remarks brother. Quite trying to make it a case about me it's not about me its about what is written. Just commit on that is all that is needed, if you can't understand what it says i can go over it again with you and then you might get it. Peace
said in love……………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 30 2008,14:53) Laurel……….Here is one for all to consider, Mat 21:31…> Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him , the first, Jesus saith them, Verily I say unto you, that the publicans and the Harlots (GO) into the Kingdom of GOD before You (Pharisees) > does it say that the {Pharisees don't go into the kingdom of God} NO it say that the publican and Harlots would go in (BEFORE THEM) and then the Pharisees will, right?, I see no one left out here do you? But it does say the fearful and unbelieving will have their (Part) in the Lake of fire, right . Preaching dome and gloom and fear Helps no body and is a hindrance to the Gospel . Turning the good new of the kingdom into bad news is not scriptural. God said he has concluded (ALL) under sin that He might Have (MERCY) on ALL. peace…………gene
GB,
Did they enter at all?Matthew 23:13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.Matthew 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.You should not be misled by a turn of phrase into thinking all men will be saved.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 01 2008,10:27) 942767……….no what i am saying Jesus said they will go into the kingdom of God's and obviously for that to happen they will someday repent as God gives them repentance in His time they will all Be grafted back into the olive tree. Just as it says for (ALL) of Israel (SHALL) be SAVED. Again 942767 your trying to make salvation about (OUR OWN CHOICES) to repent, and by doing that your exclude GOD's GRACE ,(God's influencing on the heart) as the cause of repentance and change. We should not steal the Glory of our salvation from GOD and give it to man. WE are saved BY GRACE (God's influencing on the Hear) and GRACE ALONE. IMO love to you and yours………………..gene
Hi Gene:You are making statements based on misunderstanding of scripture.
Yes, the scripture states that all of Israel will be saved, but that refers to all of the Israel of God. Following is what the Apostle Paul states:
Quote Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, Rom 9:2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose [are] the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Quote Rom 9:22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Rom 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut [it] short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
Rom 9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed
Quote Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Quote Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them. Quote Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.
The Nation of Israel exists as a nation again since 1948 and the gospel is being preached to them again as a nation as it was preached to them first in the ministry of Jesus.
Quote Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
All, both Jew and gentile were in unbelief at one time, and so the gospel is being preached to every creature, and God will save “all of the Israel of God”. The Israel that is from the Jews, and the Israel from the gentile nations.
God Bless
942767………it didn't say all the Israel of God did it” , it simply said (all Israel shall be saved) so you change it to fit your belief system and what do you do where in Titus it says GOD's the savior of all men. He would have all men to be saved, are you saying He can't or wont do that. If so them your God is week and unable to save any unless they give Him permission to. You and Nick both don't understand the SOVEREIGNTY of GOD in ALL THING. Show me one scripture where GOD said He has put Salvation in mans own hands through his (OWN) FREE CHOICES. Do you and Nick, even believe that Jesus said (NO MAN CAN COME UNTO ME UNLESS THE FATHER DRAW HIM) Where is so-called “FREE CHOICE” in that. You both need to think about what you are saying more if you ask me.
love to both of you………..gene
GB,
God allows evil.
God allows deception.
God allows men to be drawn away by their foolish minds.Choose today, everyday, Whom you will serve, is the choice all men face.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 01 2008,11:31) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 30 2008,14:53) Laurel……….Here is one for all to consider, Mat 21:31…> Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him , the first, Jesus saith them, Verily I say unto you, that the publicans and the Harlots (GO) into the Kingdom of GOD before You (Pharisees) > does it say that the {Pharisees don't go into the kingdom of God} NO it say that the publican and Harlots would go in (BEFORE THEM) and then the Pharisees will, right?, I see no one left out here do you? But it does say the fearful and unbelieving will have their (Part) in the Lake of fire, right . Preaching dome and gloom and fear Helps no body and is a hindrance to the Gospel . Turning the good new of the kingdom into bad news is not scriptural. God said he has concluded (ALL) under sin that He might Have (MERCY) on ALL. peace…………gene
GB,
Did they enter at all?Matthew 23:13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.Matthew 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.You should not be misled by a turn of phrase into thinking all men will be saved.
Nick………..and you should not mislead by quoting scripture that was meant for the Jew at (that) time no where does it say that they will not ultimately repent some day does it but you want us to think that is what will happen and it does not imply that , that' s just your own Heart that wishes the would happen, because you think you are the savior of yourself and any thing that can make you think that way you use to support the false teaching of self salvation. Paul very plainly said that God could Graft them back in and said that it was God who even Hardened the heart in the first place, for a time so the gentiles could be grafted in again, you just don't understand who is the true savior of man.peace to you…………gene
peace to you,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 01 2008,12:37) 942767………it didn't say all the Israel of God did it” , it simply said (all Israel shall be saved) so you change it to fit your belief system and what do you do where in Titus it says GOD's the savior of all men. He would have all men to be saved, are you saying He can't or wont do that. If so them your God is week and unable to save any unless they give Him permission to. You and Nick both don't understand the SOVEREIGNTY of GOD in ALL THING. Show me one scripture where GOD said He has put Salvation in mans own hands through his (OWN) FREE CHOICES. Do you and Nick, even believe that Jesus said (NO MAN CAN COME UNTO ME UNLESS THE FATHER DRAW HIM) Where is so-called “FREE CHOICE” in that. You both need to think about what you are saying more if you ask me. love to both of you………..gene
Hi Gene:Please read all of my post before responding, and maybe you will understand that Paul has said that not all of the Nation of Israel will be saved.
God Bless
GB,
Is this what you were thinking of?
Rom1117And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Nowhere does it say all gentiles will be saved.
In fact there are warnings about complacency lest they be cut off.942767………your partial post only confuse the subject , or did you forget to read where Paul said it was GOD who Hardened them in the first place, and He can soften there heart and restore them. You need to read the whole context of what Paul was talking about and not pick and chose what fit your theology. If you and Nick don;t know GOD is in TOTAL charge of SALVATION FROM START TO FINISH, you both know very little about what scripture truly says.
peace to you…………gene
GB,
Then choose to align with the plan of God.
Wandering off into universalist philosophy puts your future at riskNick….so say you , but what risk does your philosophy of “SELF CHOICE” SALVATION, put you in. I believe i am in good alignment with GOD'S Plan and WILL to save (ALL) through intense judgments ultimately, thanks. Fact is i had no idea there even was such a universalist Philosophy until you mentioned it Nick. What i have posted here is from all my many years of studying God word, and has nothing to do with anyones personal teachings. I personally believe I am saved by a work God does in Me and i do not rely on my (OWN) decisions from my self but seek GOD to both forgive me and cleanse me from all unrighteousness. John said he would and i believe Him, I will just continue to confess my sins to Him and trust him for the Help i need to change, its worked may times in my life i think i will just stay with what been working Nick. And saying wandering off into universalist philosophy puts your future at risk, only shown you lack of confidence in GOD, Who said I will (NEVER) leave you of forsake you. You espouse a very weak God who is unable to save with out your approval and help is not scriptural brother, Have you truly surrendered to him or is your surrender conditional on only what you will allow by you so-call “free will”?. Remember “it is not of Him who (WILLS) but of GOD that CALLS, and again (THY) kingdom come (THY WILL) not our free wills, Be done.
love to you and yours…………….gene
GB,
I would be as equally confident if you did not treat as trifling the teachings of Jesus Christ.
His words are spirit and life and far ahead of any scientist or philosopher.Nick…..Please get that out of your mind I see Newton as a brother who believed God and Jesus, and i do not trifle Jesus teaching and am in (FULL) agreement with what Jesus says. Because i know the Father has given His every word to say and He is truly speaking the words of the Father to us.The Father has placed our brother Jesus in the family as our head right under the Father. I am not ignorant of that fact brother.
Love and peace to you and yours……………….gene
You Nick, don't believe what our Lord and Saviour says, surely you must believe what He says. Obviously you haven't listen to Him.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 01 2008,12:55) 942767………your partial post only confuse the subject , or did you forget to read where Paul said it was GOD who Hardened them in the first place, and He can soften there heart and restore them. You need to read the whole context of what Paul was talking about and not pick and chose what fit your theology. If you and Nick don;t know GOD is in TOTAL charge of SALVATION FROM START TO FINISH, you both know very little about what scripture truly says. peace to you…………gene
Hi Gene:I selected some scriptures to show you that the Apostle Paul has stated that not all of the Nation of Israel will be saved. Why should that be confusing, except that it puts a kink in what you teach.
God Bless
Hi 942767.
May interject? Scripture does say “All Israel will be saved.”See Ro.11:26 …25 For I am not willing for you to be ignorant of this secret, brethren, lest you may be passing for prudent among yourselves, that callousness, in part, on Israel has come, until the complement of the nations may be entering.
26 And thus all Israel shall be saved, according as it is written, Arriving out of Zion shall be the Rescuer. He will be turning away irreverence from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them Whenever I should be eliminating their sins.
God Bless, Jerry.
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