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Quote (Cato @ June 25 2008,23:41) Would perfection and divine love create a system designed to condemn the greater number of humanity past and present? What kind of engineer creates a system with the failure rate that evidently is inherent in humanity, if we take the typical view of salvation as taught by Christianity. These failures then are then sentenced to at best oblivion or at worst an eternity of torment. It is inconceivable that a being capable of such feats that are evident in nature's creation would set up such a flawed system.
God did not create the system…evil did…Adam and Eve should have obeyed…Quote (dirtyknections @ June 29 2008,16:32) Quote (Cato @ June 25 2008,23:41) Would perfection and divine love create a system designed to condemn the greater number of humanity past and present? What kind of engineer creates a system with the failure rate that evidently is inherent in humanity, if we take the typical view of salvation as taught by Christianity. These failures then are then sentenced to at best oblivion or at worst an eternity of torment. It is inconceivable that a being capable of such feats that are evident in nature's creation would set up such a flawed system.
God did not create the system…evil did…Adam and Eve should have obeyed…
God is operating ALL according to the councel of His will. (Eph.1:11).
Obviously scripture doesn't agree.Blessings.
Quote (chosenone @ June 30 2008,12:01) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 29 2008,16:32) Quote (Cato @ June 25 2008,23:41) Would perfection and divine love create a system designed to condemn the greater number of humanity past and present? What kind of engineer creates a system with the failure rate that evidently is inherent in humanity, if we take the typical view of salvation as taught by Christianity. These failures then are then sentenced to at best oblivion or at worst an eternity of torment. It is inconceivable that a being capable of such feats that are evident in nature's creation would set up such a flawed system.
God did not create the system…evil did…Adam and Eve should have obeyed…
God is operating ALL according to the councel of His will. (Eph.1:11).
Obviously scripture doesn't agree.Blessings.
Ephesians 1:11… 11 In Christ we were chosen to be God's people, because from the very beginning God had decided this in keeping with his plan. And he is the One who makes everything agree with what he decides and wants.This translation does
to add…this scripture is only talking about christians..not you and I's individual destiny…that scripture is simply talking about the fact that he has a people for his name that is united in doing his will…
DK……You have given the answer,,..> from the very beginning God had decided in keep with His Plan. Was it God who decided or a man's So-Called Free will that decided it. You need to look at all the scripture give to get proper understanding, not Just selected scriptures.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 30 2008,12:22) DK……You have given the answer,,..> from the very beginning God had decided in keep with His Plan. Was it God who decided or a man's So-Called Free will that decided it. You need to look at all the scripture give to get proper understanding, not Just selected scriptures.
I think thats good advice for all…simply put..this is your and people who think like you “go-to” scripture…But as I did in another thread…I gave you 20 different scriptures that show choice…this scripture proves nothing
DK….when did ever say we don't have choice please show me where is said that, the subject matter is the word (FREE WILL) i was talking about, we all make choices thousands of them every day, i have no problem with choices. It's (how the choices are derived at) Is it (free Will) something no where mentioned in the bible or Caused choices, I say as well as all of science and Psychologist and Socrates it discoverer 500 BC which i might add has never been disproved, that our choices are the result of cause and the effect is what we have chose, and so-called free will had nothing to do with it. We don't free will ourself to salvation if that were true we would not need God to work in us would we.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 30 2008,13:45) DK….when did ever say we don't have choice please show me where is said that, the subject matter is the word (FREE WILL) i was talking about, we all make choices thousands of them every day, i have no problem with choices. It's (how the choices are derived at) Is it (free Will) something no where mentioned in the bible or Caused choices, I say as well as all of science and Psychologist and Socrates it discoverer 500 BC which i might add has never been disproved, that our choices are the result of cause and the effect is what we have chose, and so-called free will had nothing to do with it. We don't free will ourself to salvation if that were true we would not need God to work in us would we.
Colossians 2:8…8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.DK…..In non of the 20 scriptures you gave is the words free Will or free anything said or implied. You need to go and find the definition of FREE WILL and read up on it and you will see what i mean.
Where in scripture does it say, “God gave us free will?” It is always of God, see Ro.11:35-36… seeing that out of Him and through Him and for Him is all: to Him be the glory for the eons! Amen! Even when we make choices, it is God working in us to do His will.
See Phil.2:13… for it is God Who is operating in you to will as well as to work for the sake of His delight. How can one not believe this scripture, but believe in ones' own free will?Blessings.
I think brother, your time has come to accept these truths repeatedly uttered louder and more louder by these brothers as I have already received them with humble spirit.
Thanks
AdamQuote (Gene Balthrop @ June 30 2008,13:51) DK…..In non of the 20 scriptures you gave is the words free Will or free anything said or implied. You need to go and find the definition of FREE WILL and read up on it and you will see what i mean.
I never said it did…I said GOD does not make us do anything..and I showed you scriptures to support itQuote (gollamudi @ June 30 2008,14:35) I think brother, your time has come to accept these truths repeatedly uttered louder and more louder by these brothers as I have already received them with humble spirit.
Thanks
Adam
Sorry Brother GM“truths” supported by “philosophy” I can't accept
DK….then how are you transformed by the renewing of you mind , Do you have the power to do that. Only God can do that, by creating in you a new Heart. God said He would take out of us the stony Hearts and give us hearts of flesh (soft hearts) can mans so called free will do that and if it could why does God do it then.
Dk…..we have supported this position with many scriptures and who is it you call it Philosophy when many scriptures are used to support it as well as sound logic. And there is nothing wrong with Philosophy if its support with the truth. I notice you and a few others use that when ever you cant reason around whats said. And you make it sound like what you produce is not a philosophy and a false one at that.
interesting
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 30 2008,16:14) DK….then how are you transformed by the renewing of you mind , Do you have the power to do that. Only God can do that, by creating in you a new Heart. God said He would take out of us the stony Hearts and give us hearts of flesh (soft hearts) can mans so called free will do that and if it could why does God do it then. Dk…..we have supported this position wit
many scriptures and who is it you call it Philosophy when many scriptures are used to support it as well as sound logic. And there is nothing wrong with Philosophy if its support with the truth. I notice you and a few others use that when ever you cant reason around whats said. And you make it sound like what you produce is not a philosophy and a false one at that.interesting
Gene…Brother there is a reason you are in the minority in this belief of yours…maybe you should listen to the spirit and not your own thoughts…the bible counsels us against the
“reasonings of men” and “useless philosophy”…I guess I will just agree to disagree with you on this my brother…I follow Christ…You follow Christ…I am content with that…
Blessings
DK……the truth has always been a in the minority, it was at the time of Christ and it still is.
Peace to you and yours………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 01 2008,11:44) DK……the truth has always been a in the minority, it was at the time of Christ and it still is. Peace to you and yours………gene
LOLThen everyone should be following my teaching on this sight!
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 01 2008,11:44) DK……the truth has always been a in the minority, it was at the time of Christ and it still is. Peace to you and yours………gene
Hi GB,
Truth is not in a minority.
Those who believe it and only teach what it teaches are.Nick…. Wrong again truth has always been a minority or we would not have 4000 different churches and beliefs would we. where do you fit in that at Nick. Seeing you don't Know the difference between something so simple as physical Baptism and Spiritual Baptism.
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