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Hi TK,
We work out our salvation in fear and trembling and you may find your sense of absolute certainty about your idea fades so best to walk in obedience while the light is with you and seek grace for the harder times ahead.Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 28 2009,10:10) Ed J: You say the only way to be perfect is to stop sinning! God says we have been made perfect in Christ. Are we not the righteousness of God by faith in Jesus Christ? Did the lamb of God take away the sin of the world? Or not? Jesus was manifest to take away our sin! Did he accomplish that? How shall we who are dead to sin live any longer in sin?(Rom6:2)
If sin is something that you do or don't do how can someone live in sin? Do you mean live in doing something good or bad?
The only way to be perfect (what ever you mean by that) is by faith (believing) that he has made you perfect. How did Abraham earn his righteousness (or perfection)? Maybe because of his good works of having sex with his maid!NO! He was perfect by faith!!
Noah was the only righteous man on earth, he just had a drinking problem! NO MATTER, HE WAS RIGHTEOUS BY FAITH. Sin is not what you do. Sin is what you believe!! If you believe you are in sin or separated from God you are! In your mind. Not in truth! You cannot be righteous and be a sinner. If God made you righteous then you are righteous NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!
Satan is not trying to get us to sin. He is deception that is trying to get us to believe incorrectly that we are in sin. You are not in sin no matter what you do or don't do. You are not a sinner. You were in sin by not knowing that God never left you. God will never leave you or forsake you. He everywhere where would he go? Sin is believing that one can be separated from God for any reason.
The body of Christ must wake up to the sinless perfection that Jesus bought and paid for with his blood. God bless you, TK
Hi Tim Kraft,Sorry guys I mistakenly thought TK was a JW; I apologize. This forum is a beautiful
place to conduct a bible study (Isaiah1:18). Tim Tim Tim please listen to reason.Ed J: You say the only way to be perfect is to stop sinning!
God says we have been made perfect in Christ.
Is Romans 6:1-9 only there to remind us where our redemption comes from? Certainly NOT!Are we not the righteousness of God by faith in Jesus Christ?
Yes, that is where it starts (Heb. 10:26-27).Did the lamb of God take away the sin of the world? Or not?
AS the whole Bible is a book of faith, that is where our future lays.Jesus was manifest to take away our sin! Did he accomplish that?
1John 3:8 says Jesus was manifest to destroy the works of the devil (SINNING AGAINST GOD).How shall we who are dead to sin live any longer in sin?(Rom6:2)
This is more than just merely a state of mind.If sin is something that you do or don't do how can someone live in sin?
By continuing to practice it.Do you mean live in doing something good or bad?
I don’t understand this question?The only way to be perfect (what ever you mean by that) is by faith (believing) that he has made you perfect.
“STOP SINNING”How did Abraham earn his righteousness (or perfection)?
Read Genesis 22:1-14 and Hebrews 11:17-40!Maybe because of his good works of having sex with his maid! NO!
Here is where Gematria can aid; “Perception”=121 same as “Antichrist”=121,
what you need is “Bible Preception”=151, then perhaps you will understand
what the sacrifice of “Jesus Christ”=151 was intended to accomplish.He was perfect by faith!!
Please read Hebrews 11:17-40.Noah was the only righteous man on earth, he just had a drinking problem!
NO MATTER, HE WAS RIGHTEOUS BY FAITH.
Truly you are just being silly.Sin is not what you do. Sin is what you believe!!
So once a person believe Christ died for their sins, they can go and kill somebody and that’s OK? NOT!If you believe you are in sin or separated from God you are! In your mind.
God is tabernacles in all his believers (Heb. 8:2).Not in truth! You cannot be righteous and be a sinner.
Do you even understand these words?If God made you righteous then you are righteous NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!
FALSE, Hebrews 10:27-27!Satan is not trying to get us to sin.
False. He is not only trying to get us to sin, he is also going out to deceive the nations! (Rev. 20:8)He is deception that is trying to get us to believe incorrectly that we are in sin.
Nick Hassen is right, this is what “new agers” falsely believe as well!You are not in sin no matter what you do or don't do. You are not a sinner.
This too is what “new agers” falsely believe!You were in sin by not knowing that God never left you.
Please explain this one?God will never leave you or forsake you. He everywhere where would he go?
Only after a person repents.Sin is believing that one can be separated from God for any reason.
Please explain this?The body of Christ must wake up to the sinless perfection that Jesus bought and paid for with his blood. God bless you, TK
All people must wake up and STOP SINNING TK (Eph. 5:14)!Helping in the faith,
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.comTim, do you ever make a mistake, hurt someones feelings, tell a little lie? None of us will ever be pure sinless, If we were we would be God. We all make mistakes ,even Christians do. Than the Holy Spirit convicts you every time, letting you know! But you grow in Gods word, and the Holy Spirit will guide you, than you start learning what you should do and shouldnt do. Weather its something big or small(even a little lie) its still a sin, or you say something to hurt someones feelings, we all make mistakes but when you do you apologize and repent-you ask for forgiveness and work on doing better. Even tho Jesus died for all our sins, you still need to repent when you make a mistake. we will never be perfect!
Chapter 1: Patterns, Patterns, Patterns (A preview of how John tells the story.)
Chapter 2: Housekeeping (John sets the scene. Rev 1:1-8)
Chapter 3: Hello, Old Friend (John sees Jesus in the Temple. Rev 1:9-20)
Chapter 4: You are Here (The message to the church. Rev 2-3)
Chapter 5: Come up Here! (The throne room in heaven. Rev 5)
Chapter 6: Coronation! (Jesus' inauguration as the worthy king. Rev 6)
Chapter 7: I Hear Hoofbeats (The seven Seals. Rev 6 – 8:1-5)
Chapter 8: 144,000 (The sealing of the saints, the first interlude. Rev 7)
Chapter 9: Sound the Trumpet! (The seven Trumpets. Rev 8:8 – 11:19)
Chapter 10: When It's Over, It's Over! (The strong angel of Revelation 10, the first Trumpet interlude)
Chapter 11: Two Witnesses (Rev 11:1-13, the second Trumpet interlude)
Chapter 12: Bowls Filled with Wrath (The seven Bowls. Rev 15-16)
Chapter 13: Armageddon! (Rev 16:13-16, the Bowls interlude)
Chapter 14: Once Over, Lightly (A quick recap)
Chapter 15: The Controversy Over Worship: Part I- Grace (Rev 12)
Chapter 16: The Controversy Over Worship: Part II – Warning (Rev 13)
Chapter 17: The Controversy Over Worship: Part III – Judgment (Rev 14:14-20)
Chapter 18: Three Angels (The interlude in the Controversy Over Worship, Rev 14:1-13)
Chapter 19: Millennium! (Rev 20)
Chapter 20: Millennium, Part 2 (Rev 17)
Chapter 21: Millennium, Part 3 (Rev 19:11-21)
Chapter 22: Two Choirs (Rev 18-19:10)
Chapter 23: The New Jerusalem (Rev 21-22:5)
Chapter 24: That's a Wrap (Rev 22:6-end)Quote (katjo @ Oct. 28 2009,14:58) Tim, do you ever make a mistake, hurt someones feelings, tell a little lie? None of us will ever be pure sinless, If we were we would be God. We all make mistakes ,even Christians do. Than the Holy Spirit convicts you every time, letting you know! But you grow in Gods word, and the Holy Spirit will guide you, than you start learning what you should do and shouldnt do. Weather its something big or small(even a little lie) its still a sin, or you say something to hurt someones feelings, we all make mistakes but when you do you apologize and repent-you ask for forgiveness and work on doing better. Even tho Jesus died for all our sins, you still need to repent when you make a mistake. we will never be perfect!
Katjo: Please show me scripture that supports that one commits sin by doing a work either good or bad! Even the plural, sins is incorrect. Plural was added by tht translators.
If one uses the term sin in this physical world in this day and time it would mean an error against a brother or sister. That has no effect on your relationship with God. What you do in this world is your own trip. God gave you that freedom. This world has many laws and rules to live by that are not God telling us how to live. God's suggestion to us is to live by love. The reason for this is you will reap in this life that which you sow. If you want a good life sow good seed. If you want pain and suffering sow hate, anger, discord, judgment etc., sow evil! A mans relationship with God tend to create the actions he does in earth.In the way that a person sees God, that is how he will react to and treat other people. If you see or perceive God as harsh and demanding that is how that person will be in the earth. If we truly see love in God love is not self seeking, love is patient and kind, longsuffering, meek, gentle. Actually we were in sin not knowing God and that we were one with God. We were lost in this error of thinking. Man created religion (God did not) which was composed of his thoughts about what might please God or pacify God so as to accept us and bless us.That even shows that man thought God was mad at him. Washings, works, tithing, offerings, sacrifices, temple buildings, bowing, kneeling, fasting, suffering all mans religious ideas of how to get to God.
Since God could not get across to man the truth of their oneness, man was living in sin(error of thinking they were separated). So,God sent his word, the Truth, his son, Jesus to straighten out the sin/error of separation. Jesus came to the lost.They thought they were separated from God. They that were in darkness. They were in sin. They had lost their way to God in their thinking. They were looking to man for truth instead of looking to God in their hearts/minds.
The ministry of Jesus was to light the path, tell the truth,show the way back to God. The old was finished, the New Covenant was at hand. Jesus began preaching the Kingdom of God is within (Luke17:21) each person. Its not out somewhere waiting to come flying down, its within. Jesus said his word were spirit and life(John 6:63) and you are clean by his words(John15:3) sanctified by his word (John 17:17) and ordained us by his words (John 15:16).
It is your choice to either believe the perfection that Christ has given us or you can believe you are in sin, its your choice. God set before us life and good or death and evil! Its your choice.
The very idea of trying to do good or be better or live up to a standard set by God is a sin. That trying to work out your own salvation and nullifies the cross of Jesus. Bless all, TKHe is your Savior but not until you ask Him into your heart, Thats how you receive the holy spirit. If you dont except him than he dont come in. And I really dont believe your thoughts on sin at all! You make it sound like we can go out and do sins and its o.k. You do let the holy spirit guide you into leading a life like Christ. And the holy spirit is what helps you and convicts you when you do something wrong.Your making it sound like sin is o.k? Bible does not teach that at all!
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 28 2009,21:54) Please show me scripture that supports that one commits sin by doing a work either good or bad! Even the plural, sins is incorrect. Plural was added by the translators. If one uses the term sin in this physical world in this day and time it would mean an error against a brother or sister. That has no effect on your relationship with God.
What you do in this world is your own trip. God gave you that freedom. This world has many laws and rules to live by that are not God telling us how to live. God's suggestion to us is to live by love. The reason for this is you will reap in this life that which you sow. If you want a good life sow good seed. If you want pain and suffering sow hate, anger, discord, judgment etc., sow evil! A mans relationship with God tend to create the actions he does in earth.In the way that a person sees God, that is how he will react to and treat other people. If you see or perceive God as harsh and demanding that is how that person will be in the earth. If we truly see love in God love is not self seeking, love is patient and kind, longsuffering, meek, gentle.
Actually we were in sin not knowing God and that we were one with God. We were lost in this error of thinking. Man created religion (God did not) which was composed of his thoughts about what might please God or pacify God so as to accept us and bless us.That even shows that man thought God was mad at him. Washings, works, tithing, offerings, sacrifices, temple buildings, bowing, kneeling, fasting, suffering all mans religious ideas of how to get to God.
Since God could not get across to man the truth of their oneness, man was living in sin(error of thinking they were separated). So,God sent his word, the Truth, his son, Jesus to straighten out the sin/error of separation. Jesus came to the lost.They thought they were separated from God. They that were in darkness. They were in sin. They had lost their way to God in their thinking. They were looking to man for truth instead of looking to God in their hearts/minds.
The ministry of Jesus was to light the path, tell the truth,show the way back to God. The old was finished, the New Covenant was at hand. Jesus began preaching the Kingdom of God is within (Luke17:21) each person. Its not out somewhere waiting to come flying down, its within. Jesus said his word were spirit and life(John 6:63) and you are clean by his words(John15:3) sanctified by his word (John 17:17) and ordained us by his words (John 15:16).
It is your choice to either believe the perfection that Christ has given us or you can believe you are in sin, its your choice. God set before us life and good or death and evil! Its your choice.
The very idea of trying to do good or be better or live up to a standard set by God is a sin. That trying to work out your own salvation and nullifies the cross of Jesus. Bless all, TK
Hi Tim Kraft,I enjoyed the brief of your views; and pretty much agree with you.
I would like to explain how our actions can influence people for either Good or Bad?First we must define “SIN” ; sin is a transgression of the “law”. What law?
“The 10 commandments” (Ex. 20 / Deut. 5). When a person lives by “faith” in God,
he is motivated by God (“the Holy Spirit”) on the inside (Luke 17:21).Words are an action as faith is a verb.
Faith is used as a noun in the English language, however “faith” as used, in the bible
is as a verb; your actions (anybody’s) are based upon your beliefs.Therefore, what a person says (their words) is “a work” in the biblical sense; which can
influence people for either Good or Bad. That is why Jesus said: “For by thy (anybody)
words thou (that person) shall be justified, AND by thy (the same person) words thou
shall be condemned.So you pretty much understand all this; but for the reader that doesn’t I will explain.
I put in all caps “AND” because it is neither a permanent justification nor a permanent
condemnation; because Jesus is referencing the same person, and “AND” is used rather
than “OR”. OR would imply permanency while “AND” does NOT!Peter said in 1Peter 4:8: “And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover a multitude of SINS.”
Let’s say a person has a neighbor without a car. And let’s say that person takes their
neighbor to the grocery store once a week. One day he comes home drunk and runs
over the neighbors flowers killing many of them. Because of the neighbor generosity
or charity (which is also “a work”), his neighbor will likely overlook his action (for
Good or Bad).This fake story (scenario) illustrates both “faith as a verb, but also explains what
What the Apostle James meant in James 2:17-18.It takes actions for another to see a persons faith, this is why actions (“WORKS”)
are required; for others to see. This is the very meaning of Romans 10:10, peoples
thoughts are as good as dead without “WORKS”.Romans 10:10: “For with the heart man believeth unto rightness; and with the mouth
confession is unto salvation.”I share your beliefs as well Tim Kraft. This forum is a great place to Bible study
and to ask questions.God bless,
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (georg @ Oct. 29 2009,02:52) It seems more of a place for unbelievers to agree with each other. Georg
Who are the unbelievers? Those who disagree with you?Quote (katjo @ Oct. 29 2009,10:45) He is your Savior but not until you ask Him into your heart, Thats how you receive the holy spirit. If you dont except him than he dont come in. And I really dont believe your thoughts on sin at all! You make it sound like we can go out and do sins and its o.k. You do let the holy spirit guide you into leading a life like Christ. And the holy spirit is what helps you and convicts you when you do something wrong.Your making it sound like sin is o.k? Bible does not teach that at all!
Katjo: I hope I am not trying to make sin ok! Sin will destroy you. I'm trying to say that sin is not something you do(as in an action) or don't do. I believe the church is mixing faith to receive Christ and works to fall away from God. Nothing you do is bad enough to take you away from God. Nothing you do is good enough to get you to God. We are not being judged by our actions. Righteousness is by faith in God telling you that you are righteous. Righteousness has never been by doing very good works. (lest a man would boast) The gift of salvation is received by faith. Not by works. The word of God is the judge of your purity. The word of God says you are clean. If you say you are not clean you put yourself above Gods words. Thats blasphemy! The old temple worship was by works to appease God. They were lost. In the dark. Away from the righteousness that would come by faith. By works of any law shall no man be justified. If you believe that one little thing you did or do will make you better or cleaner before God you have trampled the work of Jesus and his death on the cross! Sin is believing that works can get you to God. Sin is also believing that works can take you away from God. Sin is an error of thinking. Sin will destroy you. Nothing can take you away from union with God except sin/your belief that something you did has taken you away.
The holy spirirt, God, Jesus and the words of Jesus are all the same. ONE spirit in union together. The word dwells inside of those who will believe it as truth and becomes one with all.Whatever you put into yourself and become one with is what will come out of you in words and deeds. Not the other way around. Works are a byproduct of Gods spirit/love! Father, forgive us our sin (AS) we forgive others their sin. We are forgiven as we forgive. Bless you, TKkraft- Hello- you quotted” sin is not something you do(as in action) or dont do-“never heard that before or even thought it”! Sin is something you do,and the dont do part, scripture even says if you keep your faith to your self, that is a sin. What do you mean here? I dont understand you saying that at all! So if someone becomes a murderer are you saying that is not a sin? And your right nothing is bad enough to take you away from God, Jesus will be your Savior for any sin you have done even murder IF you ask Him to be your Savior and mean it in your heart. Than you start growing in Gods word. And treat others just as Christ would. But we were all born into sin, its been past down from Adam and Eve. And we need a Savior. But if you are truly building a relationship with God,and studying his word, you learn to stay away from sinful things. They are not appealing to you anymore. Gossip, drinking, smoking, filthy movies, bad language- and your mind starts thinking differently(thats the holy spirits help) I heard the preachers wife say before “you should be very careful what you let your eyes watch and your ears hear)That is so true,if you avoid all that filthy stuff than you dont have it running threw your mind anymore. BUT I do know you cant just ask Jesus into your heart to be your Savior and not take it seriously. Yes every sin can be for-given if you ask him in but that does not mean you can just keep on doing sinful things over and over and over and think, its o.k. , all sins are for given. NO you start building a knew life in Christ and you know what he would aprove of and what not. And we all mess up sometimes, but you dont just keep sinning on purpose when you know Gods word and know he would not approve of certain things. You also said we are not being judged for our actions too-SURE WE ARE! We will also be judged for what we have done for others too! Thats in scripture too. But being a true Christian makes you want to go out and help others and to give to others, food, clothing, money etc… And I know works does not save you, but you start growing a bigger heart when you have a relationship with God and YOU WANT TO DO IT!you want to help others all you can. Sin is not just an error of thinking.I dont see how you get that.You start doing your best not to sin, and it becomes easier the closer you get to God, but if you mess up. YOU MUST REPENT. you cant just say all sin is forgiven and keep sinning not trying to better your self,and think you are truly following God! God bless!
Hi KAT,
It is better to have the three witnesses in heaven-water, blood and the Spirit[1Jn5] -than to rely on intellectual decisions for salvation.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 30 2009,13:15) Hi KAT,
It is better to have the three witnesses in heaven-water, blood and the Spirit[1Jn5] -than to rely on intellectual decisions for salvation.
Hi Nick,1 John 5:8 “And there are three that bear witness IN EARTH, the Spirit, and the water,
And the blood: and these three agree in one.” Remember 1John 5:7 was added.Psalm 119:89: “For ever, O LORD (YHVH), thy word is settled IN HEAVEN.”!
If you want to ‘nit-pick’, keep things accurate,
Ed J
http:/www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi ED,
Which version has EARTH in it as mine does not? Is it added or is there manuscript variation?You may not value accuracy but without it men run amok with scripture.
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 30 2009,01:30) Quote (katjo @ Oct. 29 2009,10:45) He is your Savior but not until you ask Him into your heart, Thats how you receive the holy spirit. If you dont except him than he dont come in. And I really dont believe your thoughts on sin at all! You make it sound like we can go out and do sins and its o.k. You do let the holy spirit guide you into leading a life like Christ. And the holy spirit is what helps you and convicts you when you do something wrong.Your making it sound like sin is o.k? Bible does not teach that at all!
Katjo: I hope I am not trying to make sin ok! Sin will destroy you. I'm trying to say that sin is not something you do(as in an action) or don't do. I believe the church is mixing faith to receive Christ and works to fall away from God. Nothing you do is bad enough to take you away from God. Nothing you do is good enough to get you to God. We are not being judged by our actions. Righteousness is by faith in God telling you that you are righteous. Righteousness has never been by doing very good works. (lest a man would boast) The gift of salvation is received by faith. Not by works. The word of God is the judge of your purity. The word of God says you are clean. If you say you are not clean you put yourself above Gods words. Thats blasphemy! The old temple worship was by works to appease God. They were lost. In the dark. Away from the righteousness that would come by faith. By works of any law shall no man be justified. If you believe that one little thing you did or do will make you better or cleaner before God you have trampled the work of Jesus and his death on the cross! Sin is believing that works can get you to God. Sin is also believing that works can take you away from God. Sin is an error of thinking. Sin will destroy you. Nothing can take you away from union with God except sin/your belief that something you did has taken you away.
The holy spirirt, God, Jesus and the words of Jesus are all the same. ONE spirit in union together. The word dwells inside of those who will believe it as truth and becomes one with all.Whatever you put into yourself and become one with is what will come out of you in words and deeds. Not the other way around. Works are a byproduct of Gods spirit/love! Father, forgive us our sin (AS) we forgive others their sin. We are forgiven as we forgive. Bless you, TK
Hi TK,Matt. 5:19: “Whosoever Therefore Shall Break One Of These Least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
but whosoever shall do and teach them , the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”People (I believe as well as God) judge others more for what they do, than what they say.
How you influence others has the greatest consequences; in some cases words can even
supersede deeds.God bless,
Ed J
http://www.hplycitybiblecode.orgHi ED,
How did you get on with the question?Certainly the OT Law still exists and is still valid for those Jews who sadly attempt to submit to it.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 30 2009,13:58) Hi ED,
How did you get on with the question?Certainly the OT Law still exists and is still valid for those Jews who sadly attempt to submit to it.
Hi Nick,For your sake I try to use the N.W.T., but this is not always possible; do to
translational errors. The Strong’s Concordance has every word from the AKJV Bible
as defined in their original languages, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek; a useful tool for
all English-Speaking people who study “God’s Word”.N.W.T. 1John 5:3: “For this is what the love of God means, that we (not just the Jews)
observe his (10) commandments (obey); and yet his commandments are not burdensome”Thanks for your efforts Nick,
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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