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Quote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2009,01:23) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,12:34) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 10 2009,20:32) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,12:20) Quote (942767 @ June 10 2009,17:31) There is “Only One God”, YHWH, the Father.
Love in Christ,
MartyYes there is “Only One God”, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. You should listen to your Pastor.
Blessings and Love Keith
Instead of listening to our Pastor's, why not listen to Paul?1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we liveLove,
Mandy
Hi MandyI have listened to Paul…
while we wait for the blessed hope-the glorious *APPEARING* (epiphaneia) of our “GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR”, Jesus Christ, “WHO GAVE HIMSELF FOR US TO REDEEM US” from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. Titus 2:13, 14
Blessings WJ
Hi Keith,But we both know that this passage has conflicting translations, right? Does the one I shared have conflicting messages – typically not. Which one should we trust?
Love,
Mandy
Hi MandyNo it doesnt. The scripture is unambiguous. It is how they are reading them.
I addressed this scripture with irrefutable facts. Click here and Here and check for yourself.
As far as 1 Cor 8:6, if you say Paul is calling the Father God exclusively, then you have to say that he is calling Jesus Lord exclusively, but you wouldn’t say there is only “One Lord” and mean that the Father is not Lord would you?
Then why would you do that when he says there is “One God” when scriptures including Paul’s own words call Jesus God?
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2009,01:23)
Does the one I shared have conflicting messages – typically not.
Not for me it doesn’t, but for non-trinitarians it does, because they have to pit scriptures against one another where they clearly call Jesus God.Blessings WJ
Keith,
“…pit scriptures against one another where they clearly call Jesus God.” Well, I'm not sure what you mean by that, but for me, because there are only a handful of scripture that DO call Jesus God….I want to compare scripture for scripture (meaning, I use different translations). And this particular scripture IS translated various ways – including being worded in such a way that does NOT call Jesus God.
So, it's not a concrete scripture for me. That's all I was saying.
I'll have to look up the links you gave – thanks for those.
Love,
MandyQuote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,17:47) I addressed this scripture with irrefutable facts. Click here and Here and check for yourself.
Hi again,I did check your links and read your posts. Keith, here's the thing – these scriptures ARE debatable. Your facts are still up for discussion. Nothing is set in stone here. The GSR has had numerous hits to it, some have been quite compelling. It just depends on where your getting your information on it (it will swing either way, for it or against it).
The verses you have sited have been translated differently, there is no denying this fact. We just choose to believe the version that lines up with our present theology, that's all.
I'm off to bed, but I will continue to think about your posts and evidence.
Sweetdreams,
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2009,02:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,17:47) I addressed this scripture with irrefutable facts. Click here and Here and check for yourself.
Hi again,I did check your links and read your posts. Keith, here's the thing – these scriptures ARE debatable. Your facts are still up for discussion. Nothing is set in stone here. The GSR has had numerous hits to it, some have been quite compelling. It just depends on where your getting your information on it (it will swing either way, for it or against it).
The verses you have sited have been translated differently, there is no denying this fact. We just choose to believe the version that lines up with our present theology, that's all.
I'm off to bed, but I will continue to think about your posts and evidence.
Sweetdreams,
Mandy
OOPS
I mean “hi Mandy”.Quote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2009,02:09)
The GSR has had numerous hits to it, some have been quite compelling. It just depends on where your getting your information on it (it will swing either way, for it or against it).
No Mandy, it doesnt swing either way. No one has been able to disprove the GSR for 200 years. All they have is oppologetics. Maybe you should try.Blessings and goodnight Keith
Ephesians 4:6 clearly states that the Father is greater and above all. Jesus Himself tells us that ” My Father is greater then I.” That does not change either when He says in
John 17:5 ” And now O Father glory Me with the glory I had with Yourself before the world was.”
The glory is that He was a Spirit Being.IMO
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Cindy @ June 11 2009,04:21) Ephesians 4:6 clearly states that the Father is greater and above all. Jesus Himself tells us that ” My Father is greater then I.” That does not change either when He says in
John 17:5 ” And now O Father glory Me with the glory I had with Yourself before the world was.”
The glory is that He was a Spirit Being.IMO
Peace and Love Irene
Hi IreneI know how you see Eph 4:6. You think that it says that Jesus is not God. First of all there are scriptures as you know that says Jesus “fills all things”.
Secondly. Thinker has already went over this with you.
Is your husband greater than you?
If he is in what sense is he greater?
Is he more human than you?
Is there a scripture anywhere that says the Father is greater than Jesus after the resurrection? No in fact he is at the Fathers right hand, not above him, nor beneath him, but at his right side.
When all things are subjected to Him, (Jesus) “then” the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. 1 Cor 15:28
It appears that Jesus is not subject to the Father at this time but rather is seated at the right hand of the Father, not beneath him, nor above him but at his right hand with all power and authority given to him!
When all things are subjcted to Jesus, then Jesus will be subject to the Father. But that does not make him less in nature than the Father, but in fact it is when this happens that God will be all in all.
Blessings WJ
W.J. If we go by Scripture then yes, my Husband is the Head of our Family. I have always let my Husband have the last word. That does not mean that I have nothing to say, in Love we both do what is good for us. He always let me take care of our Children, since His Job, took Him away from us at night. And lot of things went on at night, P.T.A. meetings etc. Scripture does state that the Head of Christ is God. I know Jesus is called God in John and Hebrew. I see God as a Family Name. Are we not the Children of God? And in 1 Corinth. 15:28 …..God may be all in all.
Also by Christ's own words, He says that ” My Father is greater then I.”
John 14:28
As far as I can see there is no trinity.
You must not take one Scripture over the other, you seem to take only those Scriptures that fit with your theology.
If Christ Himself says that the Father is greater then I, you still say that there equal.
I know how hard it is to let go of all those friends that will not agree with you. But Scripture also says if you love Father, and Mother, or Sister or Brothers, more then Me, you are not worthy of Me.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,18:15) No Mandy, it doesnt swing either way. No one has been able to disprove the GSR for 200 years.
Hey bro,While I don't follow their teachings exclusively, the truthortradition.com folks have an excellent rebuttle to the GSR. I'm sure if you were interested you could check out their site and what they have to offer. I've read other accounts as well that have turned the GSR on it's head. As I said, it simply matters who you are listening to. Of course the proponents for the rule will say it's never been disproved, while other scholars would argue that they indeed have disproved it. Go figure.
Just a quick Google of GSR is enlightening as to whether or not one should trust it exclusively. But of course I'm going to say that.
Love,
MandyQuote (WorshippingJesus @ June 12 2009,03:27) Quote (Cindy @ June 11 2009,04:21) Ephesians 4:6 clearly states that the Father is greater and above all. Jesus Himself tells us that ” My Father is greater then I.” That does not change either when He says in
John 17:5 ” And now O Father glory Me with the glory I had with Yourself before the world was.”
The glory is that He was a Spirit Being.IMO
Peace and Love Irene
Hi IreneI know how you see Eph 4:6. You think that it says that Jesus is not God. First of all there are scriptures as you know that says Jesus “fills all things”.
Secondly. Thinker has already went over this with you.
Is your husband greater than you?
If he is in what sense is he greater?
Is he more human than you?
Is there a scripture anywhere that says the Father is greater than Jesus after the resurrection? No in fact he is at the Fathers right hand, not above him, nor beneath him, but at his right side.
When all things are subjected to Him, (Jesus) “then” the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. 1 Cor 15:28
It appears that Jesus is not subject to the Father at this time but rather is seated at the right hand of the Father, not beneath him, nor above him but at his right hand with all power and authority given to him!
When all things are subjcted to Jesus, then Jesus will be subject to the Father. But that does not make him less in nature than the Father, but in fact it is when this happens that God will be all in all.
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,
So Jesus was given all authority.
The lesser is blessed by the greater.[heb7]Even at the end Jesus subjects himself to his God.
Where is trinity theory in this?Quote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2009,15:13) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,18:15) No Mandy, it doesnt swing either way. No one has been able to disprove the GSR for 200 years.
Hey bro,While I don't follow their teachings exclusively, the truthortradition.com folks have an excellent rebuttle to the GSR. I'm sure if you were interested you could check out their site and what they have to offer. I've read other accounts as well that have turned the GSR on it's head. As I said, it simply matters who you are listening to. Of course the proponents for the rule will say it's never been disproved, while other scholars would argue that they indeed have disproved it. Go figure.
Just a quick Google of GSR is enlightening as to whether or not one should trust it exclusively. But of course I'm going to say that.
Love,
Mandy
Hi MandyBut that is not true because they have only claimed that it is disproved without giving a scriptural example that proves what they say.
Blessings WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2009,15:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 12 2009,03:27) Quote (Cindy @ June 11 2009,04:21) Ephesians 4:6 clearly states that the Father is greater and above all. Jesus Himself tells us that ” My Father is greater then I.” That does not change either when He says in
John 17:5 ” And now O Father glory Me with the glory I had with Yourself before the world was.”
The glory is that He was a Spirit Being.IMO
Peace and Love Irene
Hi IreneI know how you see Eph 4:6. You think that it says that Jesus is not God. First of all there are scriptures as you know that says Jesus “fills all things”.
Secondly. Thinker has already went over this with you.
Is your husband greater than you?
If he is in what sense is he greater?
Is he more human than you?
Is there a scripture anywhere that says the Father is greater than Jesus after the resurrection? No in fact he is at the Fathers right hand, not above him, nor beneath him, but at his right side.
When all things are subjected to Him, (Jesus) “then” the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. 1 Cor 15:28
It appears that Jesus is not subject to the Father at this time but rather is seated at the right hand of the Father, not beneath him, nor above him but at his right hand with all power and authority given to him!
When all things are subjcted to Jesus, then Jesus will be subject to the Father. But that does not make him less in nature than the Father, but in fact it is when this happens that God will be all in all.
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,
So Jesus was given all authority.
The lesser is blessed by the greater.[heb7]Even at the end Jesus subjects himself to his God.
Where is trinity theory in this?
NHIf you can explain to me how the Holy Spirit is 'subject” to Jesus, then you have your answer!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,16:55) Quote (942767 @ June 10 2009,23:50) Hi WJ: The feet of Jesus, as well the feet of anyone who is a part of the body Christ, can be referred to as the LORD's feet, because his body is the Holy Temple of God, but that does not make him YHWH.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi 94The scriptures do not say we are the “body of the Father” do they?
You still have not shown me any NT scripture that says the Father is leaving heaven and coming to the earth.
He is seated in heaven isnt he?
WJ
Hi WJ:Is the term “Temple of God” referring to our body?
Quote 1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? The Father's throne is in heaven, but He dwells within us by His Spirit.
Quote 2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Quote Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God. Quote Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ June 11 2009,17:36) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,16:55) Quote (942767 @ June 10 2009,23:50) Hi WJ: The feet of Jesus, as well the feet of anyone who is a part of the body Christ, can be referred to as the LORD's feet, because his body is the Holy Temple of God, but that does not make him YHWH.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi 94The scriptures do not say we are the “body of the Father” do they?
You still have not shown me any NT scripture that says the Father is leaving heaven and coming to the earth.
He is seated in heaven isnt he?
WJ
Hi WJ:Is the term “Temple of God” referring to our body?
Quote 1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? The Father's throne is in heaven, but He dwells within us by His Spirit.
Quote 2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Quote Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God. Quote Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi MartySorry, the term “Body of Christ” is just what it says.
Not the body of the Father. Though I agree that it is the Temple of God. You see what I mean. The distinction between the Father and the Son is by title and not by the nature of their being.
The fact that that the “body of Christ” is the “temple of God” is proof that Jesus is God since the scriptures call Jesus the head of that body. Jesus is not part of the Body for he is the head. And it is his Spirit that fills that body.
It is Jesus feet “YHWH” that will stand on the mount.
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 12 2009,10:26) Quote (942767 @ June 11 2009,17:36) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,16:55) Quote (942767 @ June 10 2009,23:50) Hi WJ: The feet of Jesus, as well the feet of anyone who is a part of the body Christ, can be referred to as the LORD's feet, because his body is the Holy Temple of God, but that does not make him YHWH.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi 94The scriptures do not say we are the “body of the Father” do they?
You still have not shown me any NT scripture that says the Father is leaving heaven and coming to the earth.
He is seated in heaven isnt he?
WJ
Hi WJ:Is the term “Temple of God” referring to our body?
Quote 1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? The Father's throne is in heaven, but He dwells within us by His Spirit.
Quote 2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Quote Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God. Quote Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi MartySorry, the term “Body of Christ” is just what it says.
Not the body of the Father. Though I agree that it is the Temple of God. You see what I mean. The distinction between the Father and the Son is by title and not by the nature of their being.
The fact that that the “body of Christ” is the “temple of God” is proof that Jesus is God since the scriptures call Jesus the head of that body. Jesus is not part of the Body for he is the head. And it is his Spirit that fills that body.
It is Jesus feet “YHWH” that will stand on the mount.
Blessings WJ
No, WJ:Jesus is not YHWH. He is the Christ the Son of the Living God.m (Matthew 16:16-17)
There is:One God and Father of all(including Jesus), who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Ephesians 4:6)
He is the head of the body, but God our Father dwells within us by His Spirit.
This is what Jesus said in John 14:10
“Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”
How can he be YHWH, if YHWH is dwelling in him?
Love in Christ,
MartyMandy said:
Quote GSR has had numerous hits to it, some have been quite compelling. It just depends on where your getting your information on it (it will swing either way, for it or against it). Mandy,
If it will swing either way then please give examples. Furthermore, if the GSr is incorrect then the names “God” and “Savior” are to be distinguished and Titus 2:13 denies that God is Savior at the same time it denies that Jesus is God.thinker
Marty said:
Quote How can he be YHWH, if YHWH is dwelling in him? Because YHWH is a plural unity. Now let me ask you a question. How can all things be created for YHWH and also be created for Christ?
Proverbs 16:4: “YHWH has made all things FOR Himself, yes, even the wicked for the day of trouble.”
Colossians 1:16: “All things were created by Him and FOR Him” (Christ).
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,17:13) Quote (942767 @ June 10 2009,23:28) Hi WJ: Regarding the following:
Quote Quote (942767 @ June 10 2009,17:31) Hi WJ:
Beginning with the head of the church, the Lord Jesus, and we who are his disciples are the Holy Temple of God. Does YHWH literally have feet?
No that is the Point, The Father doesn’t have literal feet.
”AND HIS FEET SHALL STAND IN THAT DAY UPON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES”, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Compare with…
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? “THIS SAME JESUS, WHICH IS TAKEN UP FROM YOU INTO HEAVEN, SHALL SO COME IN LIKE MANNER AS YE HAVE SEEN HIM GO INTO HEAVEN”. Then returned they unto Jerusalem “FROM THE MOUNT CALLED OLIVET, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
Jesus feet was standing on the Mount of Olives, and Jesus feet will stand there again according to Zech 14:4
You are assuming that Jesus feet were standing on the Mount of Olives, but the scripture only states that the disciples returned from the Mount of Olivet. But also, the scriptures state that we will meet the Lord Jesus in the air when he comes for the church.
The scripture in Zechariah states that the LORD'S feet will stand on the Mount of Olives. Jesus is not YHWH, and also that same scripture states it this way:
Quote Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee [to] the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, [and] all the saints with thee.
The scripture states that the LORD'S feet will stand on the Mount of Olives and then it states “and the LORD my God shall come, (and) all the holy ones with thee”.
From whence shall the LORD GOD COME, from the Mount of Olives?
I am limited for time, and so, I'll get back to you on the rest of your post to me.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi 94So they left from the Mt of Olives but that wasn’t where Jesus was standing?
It seems insulting to the writers intelligence to suggest the statement “THEN” returned they unto Jerusalem “FROM THE MOUNT CALLED OLIVET” did not mean that that is where they were, because obviously if Jesus feet wasn’t standing on the Mt of Olives then the writer was wasting his breath.
Of course I see why you have to see it that way.
So let me see if I understand. The Fathers feet will stand on the Mount of Olives and the Father shall come from the Mount of Olives? Is this what you mean?
Where is this found in the New Testament? Where is the scripture that even implys that the Father is coming?
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:This is what the scripture states, Acts 1:4-12.
“4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
12Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.”
There is nothing stating that his feet were touching the mount of olives, and just what the two men in white apparel meant by verse 11 might just mean that Jesus is coming with the clouds because of what verse 9 states, and the following verse in Revelation 1:7 would confirm that this is what is meant:
“7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”
You Ask:
“So let me see if I understand. The Fathers feet will stand on the Mount of Olives and the Father shall come from the Mount of Olives? Is this what you mean?”
I mean that the scripture states that the LORD'S feet will touch the Mount of Olives, and then it states that He will come. I am looking at this as perhaps the LORD'S feet being the two witnesses, and then what is meant by THE LORD OUR GOD WILL COME meaning that he will come for the church in the person of Jesus His Son and His Christ.
If God dwells within Jesus, does that not mean that He is coming. God dwells within the body of Christ by His Spirit.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (WorshippingJesus @ June 12 2009,07:42) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2009,15:13) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,18:15) No Mandy, it doesnt swing either way. No one has been able to disprove the GSR for 200 years.
Hey bro,While I don't follow their teachings exclusively, the truthortradition.com folks have an excellent rebuttle to the GSR. I'm sure if you were interested you could check out their site and what they have to offer. I've read other accounts as well that have turned the GSR on it's head. As I said, it simply matters who you are listening to. Of course the proponents for the rule will say it's never been disproved, while other scholars would argue that they indeed have disproved it. Go figure.
Just a quick Google of GSR is enlightening as to whether or not one should trust it exclusively. But of course I'm going to say that.
Love,
Mandy
Hi MandyBut that is not true because they have only claimed that it is disproved without giving a scriptural example that proves what they say.
Blessings WJ
Hi,Are you talking about the truthortradition folks? Because they give quite a few examples…have you been to their site?
Just quickly checking in,
MandyQuote (thethinker @ June 12 2009,11:44) Mandy said: Quote GSR has had numerous hits to it, some have been quite compelling. It just depends on where your getting your information on it (it will swing either way, for it or against it). Mandy,
If it will swing either way then please give examples. Furthermore, if the GSr is incorrect then the names “God” and “Savior” are to be distinguished and Titus 2:13 denies that God is Savior at the same time it denies that Jesus is God.thinker
Hi Thinker,I'm sorry to say that the GSR doesn't interest me much. I've been there, and done that – with the study. But I was making a point that if you bother to listen to both sides of the research you will find good cases to be made on both sides! That's all I was saying. I know that in my travels I have heard cases for both that interested me.
Thanks,
Mandy
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