Trinity – Is 1:18’s Proof Text #4

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 09 2009,14:52)

Hi WJ, You should build on the rock foundation of the teachings of Jesus rather than the unstable one of catholic tradition.

NH

Jesus is the “Rock”, maybe you should study what that means.

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ.
Mt7.24f
On the rock of Jesus's teachings and not tradition is placed the foundation stone of Jesus and the living stones that make up the temple for God as Spirit.[Eph2]

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 09 2009,15:22)

Hi WJ. Mt7.24f On the rock of Jesus's teachings and not tradition is placed the foundation stone of Jesus and the living stones that make up the temple for God as Spirit.[Eph2]

and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and “that rock was Christ. 1 Cor 10:4

and,   “A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock” that makes them fall.”* They stumble because they disobey the message–which is also what they were destined for. 1 Peter 2:7

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
The same Spirit of Christ that inspired the prophets[1Peter1] led the chosen people through the desert.
To force the Son into a trinity is to stumble.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 09 2009,15:53)

Hi WJ, The same Spirit of Christ that inspired the prophets[1Peter1] led the chosen people through the desert. To force the Son into a trinity is to stumble.

aenbrfgn fgzhnbegtnhbaethn

Looks like giberish doesn't it?

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 09 2009,15:53)

Hi WJ, The same Spirit of Christ that inspired the prophets[1Peter1] led the chosen people through the desert. To force the Son into a trinity is to stumble.

NH

Thank you for admitting that the Spirit of Jesus was there before he came in the flesh!
WJ

[NickHassan]

hi WJ,
The Spirit of God ever proceeds from God and now is in Jesus and his brothers.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 09 2009,16:44)

hi WJ, The Spirit of God ever proceeds from God and now is in Jesus and his brothers.

NH

But you said it was the “Spirit of Christ” and now you say it was the Spirit of God!

Thank you again, I agree that the Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ, because the Lord is that Spirit, God is Spirit, and there is only “One Spirit”.

There you have it NH, you just confessed that Jesus is God!  

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
If you knew the Spirit of God in Christ you would not be so confused.
God poured His Spirit into Jesus and we can access this Spirit of Christ now in Jesus.
But because the Spirit is one and there is no division between Christ and his Father in the Spirit the Spirit can always be called the Spirit of Christ.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 09 2009,17:20)

Hi WJ, If you knew the Spirit of God in Christ you would not be so confused. God poured His Spirit into Jesus and we can access this Spirit of Christ now in Jesus. But because the Spirit is one and there is no division between Christ and his Father in the Spirit the Spirit can always be called the Spirit of Christ.

NH

Confused? You sound confused. You say the Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ. Now you say the Spirit of God was in Christ.

So Christ Spirit was in himself?

There is only one Spirit, and not two!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Jesus is a man.
His own spirit left at Calvary.
He lives still in the Spirit of God given him at the Jordan.
That Spirit in him is called the Spirit of Christ but as the Spirit is one God shows it used for the Spirit of prophecy in Rev 19 and 1 Peter 1.

Do you have several spirits?
test the spirits.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 10 2009,04:51)

Hi all In the following statement t8 tells us one thing but when it comes to himself he does another. IMO. Quote (t8 @ Oct. 09 2009,10:13) No. I am disappointed that people like to stick labels on others in order to judge and further their agenda, rather than have the courage and faith to stick to scripture to prove their points. Perhaps it is an admission of desperation when a man resorts to lowly tactics? Now compare his words above with his words below toward Isa 1:18s post who was discussing scripture, emphasis are mine… Quote (t8 @ Oct. 06 2009,00:14) ”I care not (except for exposing the lies) for all the politics and traditions that men “INCLUDING YOURSELF” try to impose (open or veiled threats), of resistance, persecution, defamation, excommunication, damnation, torture, burning at the stake, or whatever else is hurled at those who wish not to comply with traditions of men and doctrines of demons and men. Especially those who refused to comply with the Trinity doctrine. Many have even been killed by Trinity Henchmen in the past. Did anyone notice how t8 includes Paul, (Isa 1:18) in the same sentence as those he says pose “threats, persecution, defamation, excommunication, damnation, torture, burning at the stake”? Listen again… “INCLUDING YOURSELF” TRY TO IMPOSE (OPEN OR VEILED THREATS)”… Yet he wants to come across as one who just sticks to the scriptures? I will tell you what is happening here. T8 IMO is intimidated by Paul and rightfully so. If you read the debates you will see how t8 and his false teachings are exposed! Then t8 says… Quote (t8 @ Oct. 06 2009,00:14 ) “Given that history, I am not surprised that “YOU ARE ENRAGED” at us and come here in “THE SPIRIT OF PERSECUTION”. Can you not see that you are being used as a pawn in a much bigger game than the one you are playing? You are being used because you are open to being used. I have never seen where Paul has ever been enraged or persecuted any one ever on this sight and I have been here a while. I challenge you t8 to prove your accusation toward Paul by showing us where he has ever been enraged here! Are you enraged t8? Are you upset that Paul has exposed your false teachings? Are you mad that your tradition that follows back to the “Arians” that killed many Trinitarians and ruled for a long time has been exposed therefore leaving you with a straw man argument? What Spirit are you of t8 to write such against Paul? Is it that you do not want him here because he challenges your false teachings? Will you retract this statement t8? Quote (t8 @ Oct. 06 2009,00:14 ) “I care not (except for exposing the lies) for all the politics and traditions that men “INCLUDING YOURSELF” try to impose (open or veiled threats), of resistance, persecution, defamation, excommunication, damnation, torture, burning at the stake, or whatever else is hurled at those who wish not to comply with traditions of men and doctrines of demons and men I also might add in t8s own words… Quote (t8 @ Oct. 09 2009,10:13) Perhaps it is an admission of desperation when a man resorts to lowly tactics? WJ

Hi WJ.

I just point out the truth.
And you are continuing in what I am talking about.

Why can't debating scripture be good enough?
Why do you and Is18 have to resort to labelling others, and judging others?

I much prefer to debate doctrine. It shouldn't matter about the vessels here. It should matter what we say and teach. But some people are too much into, “are you a follower of Paul, are you a follower of Apollos, are you a Unitarian, etc”. I call Is 18 a Trinitarian because that is what he claims he is. I claim to be disciple of Jesus. So why label me a Unitarian, Henotheist, Deceiver. I have been called all three I think.

It would be more honourable if you guys just stuck with scripture. However, I have to say that there actually is some entertainment value to the way you guys carry on. Sometimes a laugh is good medicine and believe me you crack me up sometimes.

Anyway, my guess is that you have pulled out all the aces and you have none left.
What new argument can you make that might make others consider the 3 in 1 doctrine? Because you have failed to convince thus far. What you say is already known. (Remember I believed in the Trinity once and looked at pretty much everything you say and more, before deciding that it was false.) Is this why you get personal. Have you run out of ideas to further your doctrine? It does make me wonder.

And am I enraged? Absolutely not. God is my witness, I have peace in my heart and no hate for you guys at all. I can honestly say that I love my fellow man. But love also rebukes when it has to. It is the lack of love that doesn't rebuke because it doesn't care.

“For US there is one God the Father, and one lord, the Lord Jesus Christ.
“God has made this Jesus both lord and christ.

You might want to start with showing us why Paul was wrong rather than throwing labels and names at people. I mean you do come across as desperate when you have to resort to such.

If you cannot refute Paul's words, then admit it. That would be honourable, rather than letting pride win and the truth lose.

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 09 2009,13:53)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 09 2009,16:44) hi WJ, The Spirit of God ever proceeds from God and now is in Jesus and his brothers. NH But you said it was the “Spirit of Christ” and now you say it was the Spirit of God! Thank you again, I agree that the Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ, because the Lord is that Spirit, God is Spirit, and there is only “One Spirit”. There you have it NH, you just confessed that Jesus is God!   WJ

And what is the Spirit you alledgedly posse?

The Spirit of God? Which is in Christ? Which is in you?

[Constitutionalist]

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: Matthew 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; John 1:32-33

The Spirit of God came to Jesus at his baptism.

Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Matthew 4:1; Mark 1:12; Luke 4:1

This same Spirit led Jesus.

And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. Luke 4:14

If Jesus is God why is he led by the Spirit?

In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. Luke 10:21

For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. Matthew 10:20

Jesus stated it is the Spirit of the Father that speaks in us.

That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. Matthew 12:17-18

It was even prophesied by Esaias Jesus would receive Gods Spirit.

But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Matthew 12:28

Notice Jesus claims he casts out devils by the Spirit of God.

Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, [The Son] of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? Matthew 22:42-45

Seems David knew the difference, that his seed would be Lord.

In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. Luke 10:21

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? Luke 11:13

For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him]. John 3:34

(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:39

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: John 15:26

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: Act 2:17

Seems simple enough.

[942767]

Hi all:

The Apostle Paul is comparing the Law verses the spirit in the following scriptures:

Quote

2Cr 3:7 ¶ But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away: 2Cr 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

Quote

2Cr 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty. 2Cr 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.

The spirit of Christ(the spirit of the anointed) is the Law of God that is written in our hearts by the Spirit of our God our Father or by the Holy Spirit which is His Spirit.

Quote

Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Is 1:18]

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 10 2009,11:35)

Why do you and Is18 have to resort to labelling others, and judging others?

Why shouldn't we label or judge? We do this intuitively everyday, you me and everyone else. Moreover we are biblically mandated to do so. We are called in the Bible to hold the our brothers in the body accountable. This is not possible if we do not first impose a value judgement on them. Paul, whom you clearly venerate so highly, often judged and labeled others in his writings. Yeshua, our ultimate example, did too – “brood of vipers”, “whitewashed tombs” etc etc.

Keep your conduct in line with scripture T8, where appropriate judge and label others – just be accurate about it.

Quote

I much prefer to debate doctrine. It shouldn't matter about the vessels here. It should matter what we say and teach. But some people are too much into, “are you a follower of Paul, are you a follower of Apollos, are you a Unitarian, etc”. I call Is 18 a Trinitarian because that is what he claims he is. I claim to be disciple of Jesus. So why label me a Unitarian, Henotheist, Deceiver. I have been called all three I think.

If I call you a henotheist it's because the term accurately represents your christology. You may deny that you are one but the evidence speaks for itself.

Henotheism (Greek εἷς θεός heis theos “one god”) is a term coined by Max Müller, to mean worshiping a single god while accepting the existence or possible existence of other deities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism

This is what you hold to, is it not?

Quote

And am I enraged? Absolutely not. God is my witness, I have peace in my heart and no hate for you guys at all. I can honestly say that I love my fellow man. But love also rebukes when it has to. It is the lack of love that doesn't rebuke because it doesn't care.

T8, you accused me of being “enraged” and “persecuting”. Can you kindly supply a quote from me to substantiate this? We are waiting.

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18,
Is the father and God of Jesus not your God?

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18,
Is your god a trinity?
If so then it is not possible to have any sort of relationship with that god is it?

Folk get so tied up in defining WHAT they think God is that they lose sight of WHO He is.

He is the God and Father of Jesus and his brothers.
[Jn20]

[terraricca]

one spirit means the all go in the same direction or align there way with the only thrue way God our father,so by doing so you to can be in God spirit

[Constitutionalist]

And 'elohiym spake all these words, saying, I [am] the Yĕhovah thy 'elohiym, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other 'elohiym before me. Exodus 20:1-3

Trinitarian Commandment breakers worship three gods.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image (pecel), or any likeness (tĕmuwnah) [of any thing] that [is] in heaven (shamayim) above, or that [is] in the earth ('erets) beneath, or that [is] in the water (mayim) under the earth ('erets): Thou shalt not bow down (shachah) thyself to them, nor serve (`abad) them: for I the Yĕhovah thy 'elohiym [am] a jealous 'elohiym, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exodus 20: 4-6

Trinitarian Commandment breakers Bow down too, and serve three gods, they make images of their three gods, thus hating the One True Yĕhovah.

Thou shalt not take the name of the Yĕhovah thy 'elohiym in vain; for the 'elohiym will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. Exodus 20:7

Trinitarian Commandment breakers do not take the name of the One True Yĕhovah, they take the names of three gods. Vanities, lies, and deceit is how they treat His name.

[Author]

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