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There are a lot of discussions on the topic of the Trinity doctrine in the 'Biblical Discussions' forum. Would it be a good idea to create a Trinity forum under SCRIPTURE & DOCTRINE category say between the 'Biblical Discussions' and 'Other Writings' forums.
If most think that a seperate forum is in order, then I can move all existing discussions related to the Trinity doctrine to it.
Have your say.
Thx
Definitely.
As the threads grow, it's becoming more and more hard to find things. Conversations overlap. As the core of this site is about the trinity, it might as well have it's own section in the posting area.david
Hi,
Personally I am unsure. Trinity theory is a side issue in bible study and I would not like to give it more importance as it really is a trap for speculators and intellectual rather than spiritual men.True.
But on the other hand, it already seems to be very important than perhaps it should be, when compared to other doctrines.
Also having them under one roof (so to speak) will likely mean fewer new discussions based on the Trinity. Currently there are quite a few and I suspect that is because topic starters couldn't see the ones that already existed.
Maybe instead of 'Trinity Doctrine', it could be called “Creeds', as the Trinity doctrine is not a scriptural/biblical doctrine anyway. The description could read 'Doctrines not explicitly taught in scripture' or 'Traditions not explicitly taught in scripture'.
Other doctrines and traditions that are not explicitly taught could also be added. If a topic starter was to create a discussion called 'The Apostles Creed' for example, it would fit nicely.
Just an idea.
Holy Spirit, baptisms, and the like are revealed in scripture, so they would best be kept in 'Biblical Discussions' anyway.
But Nicene Creed, Trinity, Penance, 144,000 doctrine of the JWs etc would fit nicely into 'Creeds and traditions'. Or any doctrine that is inferred so to speak.
It wouldn't necessarily just contain false doctrine. There must be inferred doctrines and speculations that are true.
Now that I think of it, such doctrines shouldn't be in the 'Biblical Discussions' category if they are not clear teachings in scripture.
Any other ideas or feedback?
I have added an experimental 'read only' forum under the SCRIPTURE & DOCTRINE category called 'Creeds and traditions' to give a visual of what it could look like.
More feedback would be good.
Quote Also having them under one roof (so to speak) will likely mean fewer new discussions based on the Trinity. Quote You may be right but there are multiple threads on the Holy Spirit, baptism etc too. This has always sort of been something that I found frustrating, the growing number of similar threads. I guess there's nothing that you can really do about it, other than remind people to stick to subject and try to organize things as best you can.
Quote Holy Spirit, baptisms, and the like are revealed in scripture, so they would best be kept in 'Biblical Discussions' anyway.
And infant baptism? I've always thought of Biblical discussions not as discussions of things that are definitely Biblical, but of things people believe are Biblical or can be discussed in the light of the Bible. Trinity for example.Thanks david.
There could be a distinction say:
Biblical Doctrine
Creeds and TraditionsOne would include obvious and clear teachings such as God, salvation, baptisms, judgement etc. The other would be inferred doctrines, like Trinity, infant baptism, or other teachings not specifically mentioned, or words that are not mentioned, but what people derive from scripture. These derivations could be correct or error, that is I guess what would be debated.
Again, just an idea.
Hi t8,
I voted yes, as I think this format would help organize information better and be readily accessible as an outreach. IMO though, the Trinity Doctrine as all the false ones, is assumed and not inferred scripurally, for if it was inferred or implied, there would be some validity to it: this whole notion that God is a triune being which directly contradicts the first commandment in which Moses and Jesus tell us that YHWH is one!
Quote (t8 @ June 14 2006,00:31) 144,000 doctrine of the JWs etc
Actually I retract that part.144,000 is directly referenced in scripture.
As you may have already noticed, the 'Creeds, Traditions, Derived Doctrines' forum is live and contains relevant discussions moved from the 'Biblical Doctrine' forum.
Please feel free to give more feedback regarding the title, description, and the discussions therein.
Also if you think a discussion doesn't belong there, or another discussion elswhere does, then I am all ears.
The Trinity is false doctrine. Jesus Christ is not equal nor co-equal to the Lord Almighty God, Anyone who would surmise this is a false teacher, a flase proPhet, and of the DEVIl
Quote (david @ June 12 2006,20:08) Definitely.
As the threads grow, it's becoming more and more hard to find things. Conversations overlap. As the core of this site is about the trinity, it might as well have it's own section in the posting area.david
Hi!I read your comment, “As the core of this site is about the trinity”, and I am asking if this is in fact the case … that the essential discussion in this Forum relates to matters surrounding the 'Trinity Doctrine'.
Do the majority of Posters here differ with the customary 'Trinity Doctrine'?Thanks!
Hi dunno,
I guess when the site started it was done so by T8 and one of the reasons was because he had come to strong scriptural conclusions that trinity was a false doctrine. That took courage as few people were publicly questioning such things in those days. In earlier days much of the dialogue on the site was about trinity as you can see by the huge number of posts on the subject.Over recent times these have been fewer. Trinity goes far back into human history and generation after generation have been conditioned to accepting that it was not only truth but a basic doctrine of Christianity. It is still a basic tenet of belief of most of the so called Christian community.
I came to the site because I had privately studied the bible for 20 years and had become increasingly uncomfortable with a doctrine that seemed to make our God like any other religion's god, a icon on the wall god. But I had grown to know a God who made me part of His family of love. I was grateful to find the site by googling trinity and to see the public debate on this issue.
Few now are willing to debate the biggest problems with trinity theory. It debases our God, denies Jesus is truly the Son of God and separates God from His own Spirit as another person. I fondly hope it is a sign of light breaking through the darkness but suspect that most who are challenged do not change in the light of scripture but walk away, as most left the Saviour when he told them he was the bread of life.
Thanks Nick.
Hi dunno. Like the name
In the 90s I had received many words and knew in my spirit that I should write down what God has put on my heart. I did so in the form of this website back in 1999 I think. It initially contained a section for questions and testimonies which still exist. The forums were added in a little later.
Knowing that God wanted me to write what was on my heart, I took the bold step of putting up a writing about the Trinity I had just written. At first no one noticed it, but I took it back offline anyway and prayed about it some more. I put it back online soon after and received a wave of criticism in the form of emails and then the leaders of a local denomination I use to go to somehow got a copy of the writing and organised a meeting with me where I had to explain my actions. Needless to say, they were not impressed with me as it totally cut through the foundation for that denomination.
Once the forums came online, I thought it wise to let it be publicly debated as this was never going to happen in a denomination. If I lost the debate and could be convinced of hte Trinity doctrine's validity, then I would not only believe the doctrine but also apologise to everyone and keep it as a testimony for others who may have been in my situation.
I kind of figured that this thing needed to be sorted out at least in my own heart and I was almost hoping that someone out there on the Internet would have the keys that would unlock the Trinity from a scriptural point of view.
Of course that didn't happen and I was a little amazed at the weak arguments made by Trinitarians and also amazed at their threats of eternal damnation for not believing this doctrine, which also didn't seem scriptural to me . I seem to remember reading about Luther who too was threatened with eternal damnation in the fires of Hell for challenging Roman Catholic doctrine. But I argued away, not really knowing what to expect.
What I found was the more the debate went on the clearer that it became that the Trinity was a false doctrine. Everything just pointed that way and I started to wonder how such mass delusion was possible.
I was led to read in scripture about the great falling away and read the prophecies regarding 'Babylon'. This helped me understand that such things were not only possible, but were to be expected.
It wasn't too long that I started to get quite a bit of encouragement from others by email and even some support from others posting in the forums. Nowadays there is a lot of support from others as the message speaks to them and is in line with what God has shown them too.
So to cut a long story short, the website was never meant to be primarily about the Trinity doctrine. It was set up as a place where people could honestly search for the truth within scripture in order to encourage those in the Kingdom of God. Of course the Trinity doctrine became a major theme not because that was a goal, but simply because of the attention others gave it. It spawned many discussions related to it, but none of those discussions were started by me as far as I can remember.
I guess if we are going to honestly search for the truth, then it makes sense that the Trinity doctrine would be a major theme because of the attention most Christians have given it. To many, it is the foundation of their faith and in order to help and encourage God's children to build on the true foundation, it seems necessary to first break the strongholds or move the stumbling blocks out of the way that hinder people from being effective.
Most of the Trinity discussions have now been moved into the 'Denominations, Creeds, & Inferred Doctrine' forum. These days I prefer to move on as there is a lot more of God's wonderful truths to discover. I prefer the 'Biblical Doctrine' forum for that reason.
It does get a little boring when people turn up and give you the same 5 scriptures (including one that isn't even a scripture) that in their opinion proves the Trinity doctrine. They then expect that I and others lack understanding and that these 5 scriptures will fix up any mis-understanding. When they realise how much we have delved into this and bring out the war chest of scriptures that prove the truth, most just take off and make some excuse like I have more important things to do. Others who manage to stay longer whilst arguing for the Trinity doctrine seem to take to scripture like water on a ducks back. It kind of flows off then and they are unable to be saturated by the word. Pride is usually the cause but we know that God reveals his truths to those who seek, and to the innocent.
Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.Matthew 7:7
[ Ask, Seek, Knock ] “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.Quote (t8 @ June 26 2006,07:44) Thanks Nick. Hi dunno. Like the name
Hi! T8Ummm, first of all … the origin of my NickName was essentially a hurried one. I was asked to offer a UserName when Registering in these Forums and so I replied with the stammering way of saying, “Don't know” … thus, “Dunno”.
Thank you for your explanation with regards to the position of the 'Trinity Doctrine' in this Forum. Sad to say: the belief system(s) and thoughtworlds which have arisen in the Church by those who subscribe to the theories supporting the 'Trinity Doctrine' have proven to be a suffocating millstone around the necks of many sincere Christians. This false teaching has been responsible for untold millions of 'spiritual abortions' over the centuries because it succeeds in denying the ultimate purposes of God with man and abandons the intrinsic confession of God's intent of “bringing many sons unto glory”.
I must say that I greatly admire your courage to openly contend against the false teaching and in such a bold and unwavering manner too. I have also been much blessed to note that your discussions of the matter are gentle and patiently kind and this is a wonderful testimony to the godly posture of your heart and mind.
If you don't mind, I have yet another question:
I notice that there are numerous references in these Forums which use the terms, “Kingdom of Heaven” and “Kingdom of God”. This has given me much curiosity as to what your understanding of these terms might be.Thanks!
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