Titus 2:13, 14 Proof that Jesus is The Saviour!

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2011,01:51)

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2011,09:43) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2011,01:11) Quote (terraricca @ July 26 2011,20:42) see I am part of your savior by helping you to see the truth but do you wanted it seems not,does it so we see if you can find one other than God the father Pierre Hi All Now Peirre is saying “he is part of my savior”. Does this mean you are my “savior” Peirre? Thanks again for not answering the quesitons. Mike and t8 should he get a tile? WJ Hi WJ, It does seem a little odd what Pierre just said, but doctrinal issues hardly seems a tile-able offense. Just weighing in, your brother in Christ, Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed It is not a matter of doctrine, it is a matter of anwering simple questions. I agree with you that he should not get a tile for not answering but I only bring it up because this was what t8 and Mike was pushing that if you didn't answer a question you should get a warning and then a tile. WJ

Hi WJ,

Refusing to: OUTRIGHT answer a “Legitimate” question is more of a problem,
than trying to FORCE someone to answer a ‘Flawed Question’ repeated again and again.
The way I see it ↑ both sides are taking part in the latter.   …and that is where the problem truly lies!
Those refuse to outright answer: maybe should be tiled (temporarily of course), bringing some accountability!

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2011,10:57)

Refusing to: OUTRIGHT answer a “Legitimate” question is more of a problem, than trying to FORCE someone to answer a ‘Flawed Question’ repeated again and again. The way I see it ↑ both sides are taking part in the latter.   …and that is where the problem truly lies! Those refuse to outright answer: maybe should be tiled (temporarily of course), bringing some accountability!

ED

That is your opinion of course.

I am not trying to “force” anyone to answer, I am only saying put up or shut up.

I still would not give a tile for not answering because of what we call the 5th ammendment.

I agree that one should not have to answer if they don't want too, but they shouldn't keep making claims without backing it up by scripture.

WJ

[KangarooJack]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2011,02:06)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 26 2011,22:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2011,23:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 05 2011,14:55) “But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. “You shall acknowledge no God ('elohiym) but me, no Savior except me”. Hosea 13:4 Hi Keith, Jack and Kathi: Nehemiah 9:27 Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies. How is this scripture true if your scripture is literal?  Who are the “saviours” that are mentioned? Isaiah 19:20 It will be a sign and witness to the LORD Almighty in the land of Egypt. When they cry out to the LORD because of their oppressors, he will send them a savior and defender, and he will rescue them. How about this one?  And who is the savior this one speaks of? peace, mike The 'one' savior is according to the ultimate savior, not just someone that helps rescue someone.  The ultimate savior gives eternal life, an ultimate salvation from sin. Kathi Amen Kathi! And we know that ultimately Jesus is our Savior by his own life and blood and that he gives eternal life and sustains all things. Therefore Jesus is “One God and One Savior” with the Father. WJ

Amen Kathi and Keith!

John said that “the Father sent the Son, the Savior of the world.” He said that “HE HIMSELF” is the propitiation for our sins.

Therefore, Jesus is God for there is only ONE Savior!

Jack

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2011,03:03)

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2011,10:57) Refusing to: OUTRIGHT answer a “Legitimate” question is more of a problem, than trying to FORCE someone to answer a ‘Flawed Question’ repeated again and again. The way I see it ↑ both sides are taking part in the latter.   …and that is where the problem truly lies! Those refuse to outright answer: maybe should be tiled (temporarily of course), bringing some accountability! ED That is your opinion of course. I am not trying to “force” anyone to answer, I am only saying put up or shut up. I still would not give a tile for not answering because of what we call the 5th ammendment. I agree that one should not have to answer if they don't want too, but they shouldn't keep making claims without backing it up by scripture. WJ

Hi WJ,

I'm saying they “should” have to answer, if the question is
a particular bible verse that doesn't seem to mesh with their Theology.

So far only you and Jack have avoided such questions!
But lately, you have been answering; so I'm with you; OK?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2011,12:42)

Hi WJ, I'm saying they “should” have to answer, if the question is a particular bible verse that doesn't seem to mesh with their Theology. So far only you and Jack have avoided such questions!

Not true at all ED.

Please show where I have not answered or where I have avoided an answer.

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2011,21:49)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 05 2011,14:55) “But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. “You shall acknowledge no God ('elohiym) but me, no Savior except me”. Hosea 13:4 Hi Keith, Jack and Kathi: Nehemiah 9:27 Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies. How is this scripture true if your scripture is literal?  Who are the “saviours” that are mentioned?

Mike

Do you understand that all “saviors” before Christ were by proxy and pointed to “The Savior” Jesus Christ? They were types and shodows of the real.

We have a New Covenant with Jesus through his own life and blood. We are no longer to recognize the Old which are merely “types and shadows of the New”.

As you have said yourself that YHVW was the “ultimate savior” so all other saviors were by proxy. Not so with Jesus in the New Covenant because he is the “Ultimate Savior” being that it was through his own flesh and blood that we are being redeemed unto himself. None of the “saviors” with a small “s” purified or redeemed men to themselves

Titus 2:13, 14 is one of the strongest and clearest text showing the deity of Jesus for it would have been blasphemy for Paul to claim that Jesus is purifying a people unto himself if Jesus was not the “Great God and Savior”.  Paul was a Hebrew of the Hebrews and well versed in the Torah and knew the scriptures that say “YHVH alone is our Savior” yet Paul does not call the Father the Savior that is redeeming men unto him. Since we cannot have the Father as our “Savior” without Jesus then it simply means Jesus is “One Savior and One God” with the Father.

How is it that you cannot see this?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2011,21:49)

Isaiah 19:20 It will be a sign and witness to the LORD Almighty in the land of Egypt. When they cry out to the LORD because of their oppressors, he will send them a savior and defender, and he will rescue them. How about this one?  And who is the savior this one speaks of?

It speaks of Jesus the Word that was with God and was God who became “God with us”.

Once again the Old looks forward to the NEW.

God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself but the same is said of Jesus who is in the Father reconciling the world to himself. (Titus 2:13, 14) Therefore they are our One Savior and our One God. This is consistent with the testimony of both the Old and the New.

Mike, can the Father be your “Savior” without Jesus?

Is Jesus your “Savior” or not?

They are simple yes or no questions.

WJ

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2011,22:48)

Quote (terraricca @ July 27 2011,03:26) edj Quote Mike, The Father and the Son together acted in unity as the one savior.  Salvation belongs to both and they are one. God the ruler over all,Christ his son ,100000000 angels the Army,human believers and prophets #? (are the earthly active members) all are part of God will and so participant in being the saviors of creation,(some bigger parts than others)All guided by the WILL of God (holy spirit ) SO THERE IS ONLY ONE SAVIOR “GOD” Pierre Hi Pierre, Read Isaiah 43:11 and Isaiah 45:21 and get back to me. God bless eD j (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD,
and apart from me there is no savior.

Isa 45:21 Declare what is to be, present it—
let them take counsel together.
Who foretold this long ago,
who declared it from the distant past?
Was it not I, the LORD?
And there is no God apart from me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
there is none but me

God the ruler over all,Christ his son ,100000000 angels the Army,human believers and prophets #? (are the earthly active members)

all are part of God will and so participant in being the saviors of creation,(some bigger parts than others)All guided by the WILL of God (holy spirit )

SO THERE IS ONLY ONE SAVIOR “GOD”

so those scriptures are confirming what I have written

thanks ed

Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 28 2011,11:16)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2011,02:06) Quote (Lightenup @ July 26 2011,22:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2011,23:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 05 2011,14:55) “But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. “You shall acknowledge no God ('elohiym) but me, no Savior except me”. Hosea 13:4 Hi Keith, Jack and Kathi: Nehemiah 9:27 Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies. How is this scripture true if your scripture is literal?  Who are the “saviours” that are mentioned? Isaiah 19:20 It will be a sign and witness to the LORD Almighty in the land of Egypt. When they cry out to the LORD because of their oppressors, he will send them a savior and defender, and he will rescue them. How about this one?  And who is the savior this one speaks of? peace, mike The 'one' savior is according to the ultimate savior, not just someone that helps rescue someone.  The ultimate savior gives eternal life, an ultimate salvation from sin. Kathi Amen Kathi! And we know that ultimately Jesus is our Savior by his own life and blood and that he gives eternal life and sustains all things. Therefore Jesus is “One God and One Savior” with the Father. WJ Amen Kathi and Keith! John said that “the Father sent the Son, the Savior of the world.” He said that “HE HIMSELF” is the propitiation for our sins. Therefore, Jesus is God for there is only ONE Savior! Jack

KJ

kangoroo has spooken;

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
You need to learn who Jehovah is. He is BOTH the Father and the Son. Salvation belongs to both. This is further confirmation of the compound unity called Jehovah, our God.

Rev 7:10 And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Thanks Jack, I agree!

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 27 2011,10:06)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 26 2011,22:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2011,23:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 05 2011,14:55) “But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. “You shall acknowledge no God ('elohiym) but me, no Savior except me”. Hosea 13:4 Hi Keith, Jack and Kathi: Nehemiah 9:27 Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies. How is this scripture true if your scripture is literal?  Who are the “saviours” that are mentioned? Isaiah 19:20 It will be a sign and witness to the LORD Almighty in the land of Egypt. When they cry out to the LORD because of their oppressors, he will send them a savior and defender, and he will rescue them. How about this one?  And who is the savior this one speaks of? peace, mike The 'one' savior is according to the ultimate savior, not just someone that helps rescue someone.  The ultimate savior gives eternal life, an ultimate salvation from sin. Kathi Amen Kathi! And we know that ultimately Jesus is our Savior by his own life and blood and that he gives eternal life and sustains all things. Therefore Jesus is “One God and One Savior” with the Father. WJ

Absolutely Keith, that is what scriptures teach…a compound unity of the Father and the Son.

Blessings,
Kathi

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 28 2011,15:01)

Pierre, You need to learn who Jehovah is.  He is BOTH the Father and the Son.  Salvation belongs to both.  This is further confirmation of the compound unity called Jehovah, our God. Rev 7:10 And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” Kathi

Kathi

like always not understanding scriptures just want to be the interpreter of God spoken word,and be a leader to bring all her would be followers in to the abyss,

Rev 7:9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
Rev 7:10 And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,

THIS IS OUR SAVIOR TO HIM BELONG SALVATION;

and to the Lamb.”

AND SECONDLY TO CHRIST WHY ?BECAUSE HE ACCEPTED OUT OF HIS FREEWILL TO COME DOWN TAKE A MAN FLESH BODY AND MAKE HIS FATHERS WORDS AS THEY HAVE BEEN WRITTEN LONG AGO IN SCRIPTURES AND GIVE TO THE NATION OF ISRAEL AND PROMISED TO ABRAHAM,JACOBS,ECT

AND DO ALL WHAT WAS WRITTEN SO TO FULLFILL ALL THE WORD WHAT GOD AD SAID,
AND FOR THOSE REASON THE SON WAS ELEVATED ABOVE ALL OTHERS ,

if this is a lie prove it .

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ July 26 2011,22:53)

Hi Mike, That wasn't my question. …and I think you kinda know that.

Hi Ed,

YOUR answer to MY question will easily answer your question for you. Will you answer it? Will you tell me who these OTHER saviors were?

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 27 2011,07:40)

Mike, I haven't researched these passages but this is what Gill says about each:

From Gill:
thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hands of their enemies; such were judges, Othniel, Ehud, Barak, Gideon, &c. and this was, done for them, not on account of their merits, but the abundant unmerited mercy of the Lord towards them.

I concur.  How about you, Kathi?  Ed?  Keith?  Jack?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 27 2011,07:52)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 26 2011,20:37) Keith, why won't you answer my post about Nehemiah and Isaiah?  Please answer it. mike Mike You don't control me or my post. I am letting you simmer!

And two posts later, Keith say this about Pierre:

“Thanks again for not answering the quesitons. Mike and t8 should he get a tile?”

That's just TOO FUNNY, man!  

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 27 2011,15:01)

Pierre, You need to learn who Jehovah is.  He is BOTH the Father and the Son.  Salvation belongs to both.  This is further confirmation of the compound unity called Jehovah, our God. Rev 7:10 And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” Kathi

Hmmmm………………

Kathi, the verse you quoted sounds like it is speaking of TWO, not ONE, right? Yet only ONE of them is called “God”. Interesting, eh?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 27 2011,12:01)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2011,21:49) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 05 2011,14:55) “But I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt. “You shall acknowledge no God ('elohiym) but me, no Savior except me”. Hosea 13:4 Hi Keith, Jack and Kathi: Nehemiah 9:27 Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies. How is this scripture true if your scripture is literal?  Who are the “saviours” that are mentioned? Mike Do you understand that all “saviors” before Christ were by proxy and pointed to “The Savior” Jesus Christ? They were types and shodows of the real.

What is that word you just posted Keith?  Was it “saviors”, with an “s” at the end?

But I thought you said there was only ONE Savior, period.  Yet now you're mentioning OTHER SAVIORS.  How can that be, Keith?

How can God say that He is LITERALLY the ONLY Savior and then SEND a savior when His people cry out?  How can Nehemiah speak of the SAVIORS that God SENT when God Himself is the ONLY Savior?

When you answer this question, as Kathi tried to, then you'll know how the “ONLY God period” could be the God OF gods.

Here, let me help you by expanding on Kathi's post that you all gave kudos for.  When God says, “Apart from Me, there is no savior”, He is not saying He is LITERALLY the ONLY Savior, period.  Because He Himself SENT OTHER SAVIORS THAT WERE NOT HIM.

So like Kathi said, (which, btw, is the SAME thing Pierre has been trying to tell you for pages), God is the “ULTIMATE SAVIOR”, because no one else would have the power to even save a single hair on their head if not for Him.  This is what it means, guys.  Not that God is LITERALLY the ONLY Savior, but that He is the ULTIMATE Savior.

Are we all in agreement on this so far?

mile

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2011,20:53)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 27 2011,07:40) Mike, I haven't researched these passages but this is what Gill says about each: From Gill: thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hands of their enemies; such were judges, Othniel, Ehud, Barak, Gideon, &c. and this was, done for them, not on account of their merits, but the abundant unmerited mercy of the Lord towards them. I concur.  How about you, Kathi?  Ed?  Keith?  Jack?

Mike,
I think that Gill would know. I haven't studied the passage and whole account to be able to confirm that one way or the other. One thing that I do know from the passage is that the LORD and God referred to is Jehovah our God and that would be the unity of both the Father and the Son. Both as ONE Jehovah God, did these things that are credited to Jehovah God.

7“You are the LORD (Jehovah) God,
Who chose Abram
And brought him out from Ur of the Chaldees,
And gave him the name Abraham.
8“You found his heart faithful before You,
And made a covenant with him
To give him the land of the Canaanite,
Of the Hittite and the Amorite,
Of the Perizzite, the Jebusite and the Girgashite—
To give it to his descendants.
And You have fulfilled Your promise,
For You are righteous.

9“You saw the affliction of our fathers in Egypt,
And heard their cry by the Red Sea.

10“Then You performed signs and wonders against Pharaoh,
Against all his servants and all the people of his land;
For You knew that they acted arrogantly toward them,
And made a name for Yourself as it is this day.

11“You divided the sea before them,
So they passed through the midst of the sea on dry ground;
And their pursuers You hurled into the depths,
Like a stone into raging waters.

12“And with a pillar of cloud You led them by day,
And with a pillar of fire by night
To light for them the way
In which they were to go.

13“Then You came down on Mount Sinai,
And spoke with them from heaven;
You gave them just ordinances and true laws,
Good statutes and commandments.

14“So You made known to them Your holy sabbath,
And laid down for them commandments, statutes and law,
Through Your servant Moses.

15“You provided bread from heaven for them for their hunger,
You brought forth water from a rock for them for their thirst,
And You told them to enter in order to possess
The land which You swore to give them.

16“But they, our fathers, acted arrogantly;
They became stubborn and would not listen to Your commandments.

17“They refused to listen,
And did not remember Your wondrous deeds which You had performed among them;
So they became stubborn and appointed a leader to return to their slavery in Egypt.
But You are a God of forgiveness,
Gracious and compassionate,
Slow to anger and abounding in lovingkindness;
And You did not forsake them.

18“Even when they made for themselves
A calf of molten metal
And said, ‘This is your God
Who brought you up from Egypt,’
And committed great blasphemies,

19You, in Your great compassion,
Did not forsake them in the wilderness;
The pillar of cloud did not leave them by day,
To guide them on their way,
Nor the pillar of fire by night, to light for them the way in which they were to go.

20“You gave Your good Spirit to instruct them,
Your manna You did not withhold from their mouth,
And You gave them water for their thirst.

21“Indeed, forty years You provided for them in the wilderness and they were not in want;
Their clothes did not wear out, nor did their feet swell.

22“You also gave them kingdoms and peoples,
And allotted them to them as a boundary.
They took possession of the land of Sihon the king of Heshbon
And the land of Og the king of Bashan.

23“You made their sons numerous as the stars of heaven,
And You brought them into the land
Which You had told their fathers to enter and possess.

24“So their sons entered and possessed the land.
And You subdued before them the inhabitants of the land, the Canaanites,
And You gave them into their hand, with their kings and the peoples of the land,
To do with them as they desired.

25“They captured fortified cities and a fertile land.
They took possession of houses full of every good thing,
Hewn cisterns, vineyards, olive groves,
Fruit trees in abundance.
So they ate, were filled and grew fat,
And reveled in Your great goodness.

26“But they became disobedient and rebelled against You,
And cast Your law behind their backs
And killed Your prophets who had admonished them
So that they might return to You,
And they committed great blasphemies.

27“Therefore You delivered them into the hand of their oppressors who oppressed them,
But when they cried to You in the time of their distress,
You heard from heaven, and according to Your great compassion
You gave them deliverers who delivered them from the hand of their oppressors.

That whole account is about the Father and Son as ONE Jehovah God.

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2011,21:03)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 27 2011,15:01) Pierre, You need to learn who Jehovah is.  He is BOTH the Father and the Son.  Salvation belongs to both.  This is further confirmation of the compound unity called Jehovah, our God. Rev 7:10 And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” Kathi Hmmmm……………… Kathi, the verse you quoted sounds like it is speaking of TWO, not ONE, right?  Yet only ONE of them is called “God”.  Interesting, eh?

Yes Mike, it is speaking of two and shows that Jehovah our God is actually TWO persons. They can't be a compound unity if it were just one person as Jehovah our God.

One is called God as in “God of gods” the other one is called 'Lord of lords' together they are one Jehovah God as God of gods and Lord of lords. Interesting, yes?

BTW, that Hebrew word for Lord, the first Lord in 'Lord of lords,' is Adonay. The word used ONLY for our deity Lord. This name is throughout the OT. You should get to know the Adonay of lords. He is one with the God of gods and called Jehovah our God. He is the Adonay that is part of God…Jehovah God.

Thanks for the question, Mike,
Kathi

[Lightenup]

Mike,
you said in your post above to Keith:

Quote

God is the “ULTIMATE SAVIOR”, because no one else would have the power to even save a single hair on their head if not for Him. This is what it means, guys. Not that God is LITERALLY the ONLY Savior, but that He is the ULTIMATE Savior.

The God that is the ultimate savior is Jehovah our God which is the unity of both the Father and the Son.

Salvation belongs to both as one Jehovah God. Jehovah God is the name of two persons…the Father and the Son.

Together the Father and the Son agreed to have the Father send the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Kathi

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