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Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 03 2007,10:29) I Just want to make sure I am reading people right. Gene, Laurel, IM4Truth, and 942767
Are you saying that the Lambs are killed at twilight between the 13th and the 14th?
Given these following scriptures, wouldn't that be incorrect.
Exodus 12:6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the people of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast.
If the end of the 13th beginning of the 14th is when the lambs are killed and that is the beginning of eating unleavened bread, then wouldn't that make the DAY of the 14th the First DAY of Unleavened Bread?
The bible is clear however saying that the first DAY of Unleavened Bread is the 15th.
Lev 23:6 On the fifteenth day of that month the Lord's Feast of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast.
Num 28:17 On the fifteenth day of this month there is to be a festival; for seven days eat bread made without yeast. 18 On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.
The fact that we are told the first DAY of Unleavened Bread is on the 15th CLARIFIES that the lamb is killed at the end of the 14th and not at the beginning.
Hi Jodi:I am saying that the lambs are killed at twilight on the 14th.
God Bless
Quote (942767 @ Dec. 03 2007,11:04) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 03 2007,10:29) I Just want to make sure I am reading people right. Gene, Laurel, IM4Truth, and 942767
Are you saying that the Lambs are killed at twilight between the 13th and the 14th?
Given these following scriptures, wouldn't that be incorrect.
Exodus 12:6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the people of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast.
If the end of the 13th beginning of the 14th is when the lambs are killed and that is the beginning of eating unleavened bread, then wouldn't that make the DAY of the 14th the First DAY of Unleavened Bread?
The bible is clear however saying that the first DAY of Unleavened Bread is the 15th.
Lev 23:6 On the fifteenth day of that month the Lord's Feast of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast.
Num 28:17 On the fifteenth day of this month there is to be a festival; for seven days eat bread made without yeast. 18 On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.
The fact that we are told the first DAY of Unleavened Bread is on the 15th CLARIFIES that the lamb is killed at the end of the 14th and not at the beginning.
Hi Jodi:I am saying that the lambs are killed at twilight on the 14th.
God Bless
Hello 942767The whole sunset to sunset thing I think can be a little confusing –
I still need you to clarify-
You are meaning then at the end of the 14th and not at the beginning, correct?
Jodi….> no i am saying the lambs were slaughtered in the afternoon around 3:00 PM, of the 14th day and were prepaired to be eaten for the (passover night)WHICH WAS THE 15th. remember the new day started at sunset, time was measured from evening to evening, so at sundown the 14th started the 15th day. This was when the passover accurd. ……IMO….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 03 2007,12:12) Jodi….> no i am saying the lambs were slaughtered in the afternoon around 3:00 PM, of the 14th day and were prepaired to be eaten for the (passover night)WHICH WAS THE 15th. remember the new day started at sunset, time was measured from evening to evening, so at sundown the 14th started the 15th day. This was when the passover accurd. ……IMO….gene
Thanks Gene,This is how I understand it. Except you say the lambs are slaughtered at 3PM, whereas her it says at twilight.
Exodus 12:6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the people of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight.
Where do you get at 3PM?
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 03 2007,12:00) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 03 2007,11:04) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 03 2007,10:29) I Just want to make sure I am reading people right. Gene, Laurel, IM4Truth, and 942767
Are you saying that the Lambs are killed at twilight between the 13th and the 14th?
Given these following scriptures, wouldn't that be incorrect.
Exodus 12:6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the people of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast.
If the end of the 13th beginning of the 14th is when the lambs are killed and that is the beginning of eating unleavened bread, then wouldn't that make the DAY of the 14th the First DAY of Unleavened Bread?
The bible is clear however saying that the first DAY of Unleavened Bread is the 15th.
Lev 23:6 On the fifteenth day of that month the Lord's Feast of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast.
Num 28:17 On the fifteenth day of this month there is to be a festival; for seven days eat bread made without yeast. 18 On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.
The fact that we are told the first DAY of Unleavened Bread is on the 15th CLARIFIES that the lamb is killed at the end of the 14th and not at the beginning.
Hi Jodi:I am saying that the lambs are killed at twilight on the 14th.
God Bless
Hello 942767The whole sunset to sunset thing I think can be a little confusing –
I still need you to clarify-
You are meaning then at the end of the 14th and not at the beginning, correct?
Yes Jodi:That is correct. The lambs were killed at twilight on the 14th and the passover was eaten on the 15th. Jesus is our passover lamb although he was crucified on the 14th at noon and died on that day at 3PM.
But I believe that you are saying that you do not understand what has been said about the meal that Jesus ate with his disciples prior to his being crucified.
Jesus told his disciples to go and prepare the passover. I take that to mean the place where he was to eat the passover with them, and they ate that meal at the beginning of the 14th in the evening. He used this meal to show symbolically that he was the passover. The passover lambs had not been killed and so they were not eating lamb.
Quote Luke 22
1 Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, called the Passover, was approaching, 2 and the chief priests and the teachers of the law were looking for some way to get rid of Jesus, for they were afraid of the people. 3 Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. 4 And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus. 5 They were delighted and agreed to give him money. 6 He consented, and watched for an opportunity to hand Jesus over to them when no crowd was present.7 Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. 8 Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover.” 9 “Where do you want us to prepare for it?” they asked. 10 He replied, “As you enter the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him to the house that he enters, 11 and say to the owner of the house, 'The Teacher asks: Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?' 12 He will show you a large upper room, all furnished. Make preparations there.” 13 They left and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover. 14 When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15 And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.” 17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” 19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
21 But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. 22 The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed, but woe to that man who betrays him.”
They were in the place that was prepared for the passover, but Jesus knew that he was the passover lamb that would be killed in their and our behalf later that same day.
God Bless
Quote (942767 @ Dec. 03 2007,13:46) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 03 2007,12:00) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 03 2007,11:04) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 03 2007,10:29) I Just want to make sure I am reading people right. Gene, Laurel, IM4Truth, and 942767
Are you saying that the Lambs are killed at twilight between the 13th and the 14th?
Given these following scriptures, wouldn't that be incorrect.
Exodus 12:6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the people of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast.
If the end of the 13th beginning of the 14th is when the lambs are killed and that is the beginning of eating unleavened bread, then wouldn't that make the DAY of the 14th the First DAY of Unleavened Bread?
The bible is clear however saying that the first DAY of Unleavened Bread is the 15th.
Lev 23:6 On the fifteenth day of that month the Lord's Feast of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast.
Num 28:17 On the fifteenth day of this month there is to be a festival; for seven days eat bread made without yeast. 18 On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.
The fact that we are told the first DAY of Unleavened Bread is on the 15th CLARIFIES that the lamb is killed at the end of the 14th and not at the beginning.
Hi Jodi:I am saying that the lambs are killed at twilight on the 14th.
God Bless
Hello 942767The whole sunset to sunset thing I think can be a little confusing –
I still need you to clarify-
You are meaning then at the end of the 14th and not at the beginning, correct?
Yes Jodi:That is correct. The lambs were killed at twilight on the 14th and the passover was eaten on the 15th. Jesus is our passover lamb although he was crucified on the 14th at noon and died on that day at 3PM.
But I believe that you are saying that you do not understand what has been said about the meal that Jesus ate with his disciples prior to his being crucified.
Jesus told his disciples to go and prepare the passover. I take that to mean the place where he was to eat the passover with them, and they ate that meal at the beginning of the 14th in the evening. He used this meal to show symbolically that he was the passover. The passover lambs had not been killed and so they were not eating lamb.
Quote Luke 22
1 Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, called the Passover, was approaching, 2 and the chief priests and the teachers of the law were looking for some way to get rid of Jesus, for they were afraid of the people. 3 Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. 4 And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus. 5 They were delighted and agreed to give him money. 6 He consented, and watched for an opportunity to hand Jesus over to them when no crowd was present.7 Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. 8 Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover.” 9 “Where do you want us to prepare for it?” they asked. 10 He replied, “As you enter the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him to the house that he enters, 11 and say to the owner of the house, 'The Teacher asks: Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?' 12 He will show you a large upper room, all furnished. Make preparations there.” 13 They left and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover. 14 When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15 And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.” 17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” 19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
21 But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. 22 The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed, but woe to that man who betrays him.”
They were in the place that was prepared for the passover, but Jesus knew that he was the passover lamb that would be killed in their and our behalf later that same day.
God Bless
942767 You have it down packed good and I agree with you.Love Mrs.
Quote (942767 @ Dec. 03 2007,09:47) Hi Laurel: We are in agreement that Jesus was crucified on the 14 of Abib. However, I disagree with you on some of your interpretations which I will discuss with you, and you have not given me a scripture which shows that Jesus was resurrected on the Sabbath day. Actually, if you want to show your position relative the Sabbath, and I believe that we all here know by now that Saturday was the day that the Jews kept the Sabbath, Jesus rested in the grave both as unleavened bread on that Sabbath and on the weekly Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of rest. He is the firstruits of those who are raised from the dead, therefore, he was raised from the dead on Sunday.
Jesus states: Matt. 26:1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples, 2 Ye know that after two days is the FEAST OF THE PASSOVER, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.
Therefore, by the following scripture is meant the passover when the lambs are to be killed:
Quote Matt.26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread(feast of passover) the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover? 18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples And so Jesus, ate with his disciples that evening which was the start of the 14th after 6PM and he prayed in the garden of Gethsemane and he sumbitted himself to God our Father even in the suffering he was about to endure in our behalf, and he was betrayed by Judas and delivered into the hands of the Chief Priests and Pharisees.
On the Morning of the 14th, He was delivered to the Judgment Hall and Pilate on that morning:
Quote John 18:28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover. 29 Pilate then went out unto them, and said, What accusation bring ye against this man? 30 They answered and said unto him, If he were not a malefactor, we would not have delivered him up unto thee. 31 Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death: The following verse of the forging scripture testifies that the passover lamb had not yet been killed, and that the meal that Jesus ate with his disciples was not then the passover lamb.
Quote they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover And this makes all the gospels, the synoptics and the gospel of John, to be in agreement that this was the 14th, and Jesus died at 3PM on this day.
And we know that it was the preparation day(to prepare to observe the Sabbath) and my understanding is that the Sabbath for the the first day of unleavened bread and that the weekly Sabbath fell on the the same day. And you are saying that there was a preparation day for the Sabbath of unleavened bread and one for the weekly Sabbath.
This is where we disagree:
You say:
Quote (Abib 16 day after Unleavened Bread)
Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.You say this the 16th but you are taking this verse out of context. Let's look at it in context and see what it says:
Quote Luke 23:50 And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just: 51 (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them;) he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God. 52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. 54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. 55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. 56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment. This was still on the 14th when they put Jesus in the Sepulchre, and
Quote Luke 23:55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. 56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment They went home and prepared spices, and rested on the Sabbath day the 15th, and then after the Sabbath was past on 1st day of the week Sunday when they came to anoint the body with the spices, they found that he had risen.
Quote Luke 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. 3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: 5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living F53 among the dead? 6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee You make a statement to the following scripture which I understand differently:
Quote Luk 24:18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
Luk 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
Luk 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
Luk 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
(Here it
is explained that it had been three as since the guards were placed to hold watch. See the verses in Matt. On Abib 15)He was saying three days since they crucified him not since since the guards placed a watch on the tomb.
God Bless
I posted the actual dates, you are smart enough to figure out the days. Also, He was the First Fruits in Heaven! Not earth. He was ressurected on the weekly Sabbath just before dark. He went to His Father in heaven on the 1st day of the week some time after He spoke to the two Mary's at the tomb, and before He told His taught ones to “Handle Me”Quote (942767 @ Dec. 03 2007,11:04) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 03 2007,10:29) I Just want to make sure I am reading people right. Gene, Laurel, IM4Truth, and 942767
Are you saying that the Lambs are killed at twilight between the 13th and the 14th?
Given these following scriptures, wouldn't that be incorrect.
Exodus 12:6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the people of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast.
If the end of the 13th beginning of the 14th is when the lambs are killed and that is the beginning of eating unleavened bread, then wouldn't that make the DAY of the 14th the First DAY of Unleavened Bread?
The bible is clear however saying that the first DAY of Unleavened Bread is the 15th.
Lev 23:6 On the fifteenth day of that month the Lord's Feast of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast.
Num 28:17 On the fifteenth day of this month there is to be a festival; for seven days eat bread made without yeast. 18 On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.
The fact that we are told the first DAY of Unleavened Bread is on the 15th CLARIFIES that the lamb is killed at the end of the 14th and not at the beginning.
Hi Jodi:I am saying that the lambs are killed at twilight on the 14th.
God Bless
Hi Jodi,
No the lambs were killed near the end of Passover the evening of the 14th, between Passover and Unleavened Bread which is the 15th. The meal Y'shua gave His diciples was the evening beginning the 14th, the beginning of Passover.ps. I don't see anything wrong with the book of John. There are many Words there that were spoken by Messiah. I find it very inspiring.
Jodi…..> your right they were killed at twilight that's in the morning of the 14th day. But the day of killing of the lambs was not a Holy Day at all, the passover which occurred the midnight following the killing of the lambs which would have put it night of the 15th, so the fifteenth was the actual PASSOVER , remember the pasover was when the Death Angle Passed Over the houses that had the blood of the lamb on its door posts, sometimes called the (Night to be Much Remembered).
At the time of Jesus's crucifiction the 14th was a wednsday and the passover Holy Day was on the 15th and the next day 16th was the First Day of Unleavened Bread, when the Israelites were leaving Egyt (a type of sin or leavening), they were being Unleavened so to speek. The next day was the 17th day regular sabbath day.
The days fell like this,
Wednsday the 14th..> the lambs, Jesus, Died
Thursday the 15th….>Passover..a Holy Day
Friday the 16th………>Unleavened Bread a Holy Day
Saturday the 17th…..> Regular Sabbath DayThis is the way i understand it…….gene
Gene You forgot to tell Her now that Jesus died on Wednesday at 3:00 in the afternoon and rose again 3 nights and 3 days later which brings you to Saturday afternoon at 3:00 in the afternoon. You have to remember that it was the beginning of the Sabbath and nobody would do anything and they would not go the the grave. So the very next day was Sunday when they did go. That is why there is so much confusion. One has to remember the circumstances of the Jewish people at the time. They did not move on a Sabbath or did anything in fear of defiling it.
I sure hope this clears it all up for Jodi.
Love IreneQuote (942767 @ Dec. 03 2007,13:46) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 03 2007,12:00) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 03 2007,11:04) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 03 2007,10:29) I Just want to make sure I am reading people right. Gene, Laurel, IM4Truth, and 942767
Are you saying that the Lambs are killed at twilight between the 13th and the 14th?
Given these following scriptures, wouldn't that be incorrect.
Exodus 12:6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the people of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast.
If the end of the 13th beginning of the 14th is when the lambs are killed and that is the beginning of eating unleavened bread, then wouldn't that make the DAY of the 14th the First DAY of Unleavened Bread?
The bible is clear however saying that the first DAY of Unleavened Bread is the 15th.
Lev 23:6 On the fifteenth day of that month the Lord's Feast of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast.
Num 28:17 On the fifteenth day of this month there is to be a festival; for seven days eat bread made without yeast. 18 On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.
The fact that we are told the first DAY of Unleavened Bread is on the 15th CLARIFIES that the lamb is killed at the end of the 14th and not at the beginning.
Hi Jodi:I am saying that the lambs are killed at twilight on the 14th.
God Bless
Hello 942767The whole sunset to sunset thing I think can be a little confusing –
I still need you to clarify-
You are meaning then at the end of the 14th and not at the beginning, correct?
Yes Jodi:That is correct. The lambs were killed at twilight on the 14th and the passover was eaten on the 15th. Jesus is our passover lamb although he was crucified on the 14th at noon and died on that day at 3PM.
But I believe that you are saying that you do not understand what has been said about the meal that Jesus ate with his disciples prior to his being crucified.
Jesus told his disciples to go and prepare the passover. I take that to mean the place where he was to eat the passover with them, and they ate that meal at the beginning of the 14th in the evening. He used this meal to show symbolically that he was the passover. The passover lambs had not been killed and so they were not eating lamb.
Quote Luke 22
1 Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, called the Passover, was approaching, 2 and the chief priests and the teachers of the law were looking for some way to get rid of Jesus, for they were afraid of the people. 3 Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. 4 And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus. 5 They were delighted and agreed to give him money. 6 He consented, and watched for an opportunity to hand Jesus over to them when no crowd was present.7 Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. 8 Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover.” 9 “Where do you want us to prepare for it?” they asked. 10 He replied, “As you enter the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him to the house that he enters, 11 and say to the owner of the house, 'The Teacher asks: Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?' 12 He will show you a large upper room, all furnished. Make preparations there.” 13 They left and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover. 14 When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15 And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.” 17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” 19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
21 But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. 22 The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed, but woe to that man who betrays him.”
They were in the place that was prepared for the passover, but Jesus knew that he was the passover lamb that would be killed in their and our behalf later that same day.
God Bless
94Bishop,
You got it!Now the next step is to know that THIS is how we are to “remember” this sacrifice from now on.
We are to eat unleavened bread with wine and wash one another's feet at the first dark beginning the 14th of Abib.
You will understand it if you do follow Y'shua.
The unleavened bread represents two things which are one:
The body without sin, AND the true worship of YHWH our Elohim on His appointed day and time. Not by the traditions and laws man have appointed. Thus we remember that we were once slaves to the system that man has imagined, but now we are free from that system and are set-apart to our Elohim!So before we eat the bread and drink the wine we better be sure we have repented of any sin so that we may sup with YHWH our Elohim and Y'shua our Messiah. One Spirit, One Assembly.
This meal is Set-apart or Holy.
May you all be blessed with this understanding,
LaurelI almost forgot to tell about the foot washing:
The footwashing represents that we are to serve one another. It is quite a humbling thing to participate in footwashing.
We also see that Y'shua was a servant first, when He returns He will return as King of kings! We learn that before we can be a good leader, we must first be a good servant. There are no good leaders who are not good servants!
Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 01 2007,16:21) To Help You understand the fulfillment of Passover and Unleavened Bread PASSOVER
Lev 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.
Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
Lev 23:7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.(Abib 11)
Mat 26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
MISTRANSLATION for if it were the first day os Unleavened bread, the lamb would have already been sacrificed! This must be the first day of the week before Passover 14th, and Unleavened Bread The 15th.Mat 26:19 And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.
(This verse does not say they slew a lamb.)(Abib 12)
Mat 26:2 Ye know that after two days is the Passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.
Mat 26:3 Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas,
Mat 26:4 And consulted that they might take Y'shua deceitfully, and kill him.
Mat 26:5 But they said, Not on the feast of Unleavened Bread, lest there be an uproar among the people.
***
Mar 14:1 After two days was (is) the Passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take Him by craft, and put him to death.
(Here we see the translator calling Passover the same day as Unleavened Bread) We know that it means Passover and that Passover is not a Sabbath. The feast is Unleavened Bread follows Passover according to Lev. Chapter 23.)Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is YHWH's Passover.
Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread unto YHWH: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
Lev 23:7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. (The first day of Unleavened Bread is a Sabbath rest.)
Exo 12:8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.Deu 16:6 But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there you shall sacrifice the Passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that you came forth out of Egypt.
(Evening after daylight of the 12th of Abib) Beginning of Passover at dark.
Joh 13:1 Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
Joh 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;
Joh 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;
Joh 13:4 He rose from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
Joh 13:5 After that he poured water into a basin, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.(The gospel of John accurately teaches according to Scripture.)
Joh 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
Joh 13:28 Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him.
Joh 13:29 For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor.
Joh 13:30 He then having received the sop went immediately out: and it was night. (Now the beginning of Passover)
***
Luk 22:13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the Passover.
Luk 22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer:
Luk 22:16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
Luk 22:17 And He took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
Luk 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
Luk 22:19 And He took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is My body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of Me.
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is shed for you.
Luk 22:21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrays me is with me on the table.(Y'shua did not partake of this meal. It represented Himself. He said do this and remember Me. If this was the actual Passover, and He did not eat, then He would be going against the Torah!)
(We see in 13:29 that the disciples thought because Judas had the bag of money that Y'shua was sending him out to buy something needed for the feast.)
It was dark. If it was dark then it could not possibly be dark of the Passover and the beginning of Unleavened Bread, since it is unlawful to buy or sell on a Sabbath. Unleavened Bread is a Sabbath, and the days begin at sunset.
Joh 13:19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it comes to pass, you may believe that I am. (He is saying to them He is the Passover)
John 14, 15, and 16 is Y'shua last teaching to His disciples at the last supper.
John 17 Y'shua prays to His Father on our behalf, in humility and thanksgiving.
Joh 18:1 When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples over the brook Cedron, where was a garden, into the which he entered, and his disciples.
Joh 18:2 And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Y'shua often stayed there with His disciples.
Joh 18:3 Judas then, having welcomed a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, came there with lanterns and torches and weapons.(Still dark before the Passover sacrifice they came with torches and lanterns.)
(Now daylight of the 14th,, Passover Day)
Joh 18:28 Then led they Y'shua from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the Passover.***
Joh 19:11 Y'shua answered, Thou could have no power against me, except it was given to you from above: therefore he who delivered me unto you has the greater sin.Joh 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard His saying, he brought Y'shua forward, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!Joh 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
Joh 19:35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he know
eth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
Joh 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
Joh 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.Lev 5:7 And if he be not able to bring a lamb, then he shall bring for his trespass, which he hath committed, two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, unto the LORD; one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering.
This last verse tells us that the moneychangers of whom Y'shua threw over their tables, were selling the doves for sacrifice, but the problem was they were using the temple to do it and from what I can gather so far they were doing it on the Sabbath prior to Passover on Abib 10.
Laurel, thanks for sticking with this. I deeply respect your passion for teaching the truth as you understand it. As you know I just wish that you could at times delivery it in a more respectful and understanding way.There are a few things in this post that just don't add up to me.
You say that Matthew 26:17 is a mistranslation 'for if it were the first day of Unleavened bread, the lamb would have already been sacrificed.'
However it says the first day of the FEAST of Unleavened Bread, which you THEN later in your post admit that includes the Passover.
You give this scripture-
Mar 14:1 After two days was (is) the Passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take Him by craft, and put him to death.And then say-
“(Here we see the translator calling Passover the same day as Unleavened Bread) We know that it means Passover and that Passover is not a Sabbath. The feast is Unleavened Bread follows Passover according to Lev. Chapter 23.)”So according to Matthew the first day of the FEAST of Unleavened Bread cannot mean the Passover, but in Mark the Passover and Unleavened Bread can be called the same day?
Mat 26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
Now if the Passover is included in the FEAST of Unleavened Bread, then what makes Matthew a mistranslation?
And how about Luke-
Lu 22:7 -Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed
Is this a mistranslation or do the translators consider Passover as part of the FEAST of Unleavened Bread and that is why we see these texted the way we do?
Could you be more specific and give the original text in Matthew that you believe has been mistranslated into the English?
As well, do you believe that the disciples ATE lamb that evening just after Jesus was crucified?
What I don't get is that if it were not the real Passover dinner, why call it that? —
Matthew 26:17-make the preparations for you to eat the Passover
26:18 I will keep the Passover at your house with my disciples
26:19 they prepared the Passover meal
Mark 14:12 make the preparations for you to eat the Passover
14:14 where I may eat the Passover with my disciples
14:16 they prepared the Passover meal
Lu 22:7 Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed.
22:8 Go and prepare the Passover meal for us that we may eat it.”
22:11 where I may eat the Passover with my disciples
22:13 they prepared the Passover meal
22:15 desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer
John uses the word supper to describe the meal, now why on earth would Matthew,Mark and Luke refer to it as the Passover meal when they could have as in John just used the word supper?
John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having already put in to the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him.
————————————–Laurel you said,”(Y'shua did not partake of this meal. It represented Himself. He said do this and remember Me. If this was the actual Passover, and He did not eat, then He would be going against the Torah!)”
This isn't a very persuasive point to me. Matthew, Mark and Luke call it the Passover meal, and do not indicate it as anything otherwise. It is obvious why Jesus is not eating the meal, because the bread and wine represent HIM AS BEING the LAMB! He is not breaking the Torah, he is starting God's plan of fulfilling it!
You said,”(We see in 13:29 that the disciples thought because Judas had the bag of money that Y'shua was sending him out to buy something needed for the feast.) It was dark. If it was dark then it could not possibly be dark of the Passover and the beginning of Unleavened Bread, since it is unlawful to buy or sell on a Sabbath. Unleavened Bread is a Sabbath, and the days begin at sunset.”
Now this is interesting because basically what you are saying is that because there IS a LAW that LAW IS KEPT. If this were true then God would not have needed Jesus now would He.
The fact that it is law, makes it less likely, but not at all certain.
After all Jesus had already done a few things according to the Jews that was in violation to the Sabbath law. The fact that it is mentioned that the disciples thought Judas might be going to buy something does not in itself make that night not a Sabbath.
If it is so important that Jesus die when the lambs die, then why did he die at 3PM and not at twilight?
Exodus 13:3 Moses said to the people, “Remember this day on which you came out of Egypt, out of the house of slavery, because the Lord brought you out from there by strength of hand; no leavened bread shall be eaten.
The 15th represented being set free from slavery
Jesus SUFFERED and died so that we may be freed from sin, therefore Jesus suffering and dying on the 15th can just as easily be argued as Jesus fulfilling the Torah.
At the very moment Jesus was suffering our sins were being forgiven, we were being freed, just like on the 15th the Pharaoh set the Israelites free.
Maybe if at the exact moment at the end of the 14th when the lambs were killed if the Israelites were set free right then and there, and if Jesus would have actually died at that time, then I might disregard the three Gospels over the one.
Scholars have given some good reasons as to why John has the High priests keeping the Passover after Jesus and his disciples. I am more inclined to believe one of those reasons then to disregard all the times the other Gospels refer to that meal as the actual Passover according to Jesus.
As well, because your argument Laurel seems to be based on three days and three nights in the heart of the earth, which I clearly don't believe represents from his death. I find your position all the more weaker.
As well with the significance of the First Fruits, even though I was really liking the idea of Jesus being raised that very night, I am becoming convinced that he must of rose on Sunday.
The position of my belief has indeed changed.
This is how I am currently seeing it-
Wednesday the 14th the disciples prepared the Passover meal. That night starting on the 15th they ate the Passover meal. Later on that night Jesus' suffering began and he was handed over, which also started the 'three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.' Thursday on the 15th Jesus was crucified and he died at 3PM. Jesus rose early what we would consider as Saturday night but according to the Jews is the beginning of Sunday the 18th. This makes Jesus rising exactly three days and three nights starting with his suffering.This view aligns very well with the OT both with the significance of the original Passover and the accounts and significance of Jonah.
Laurel, I hope you
r pride does not get in the way of you AT LEAST, trying to consider the significance behind this understanding.To all, I ask that you PLEASE read this link-
Twilight or between the evenings means after 12 noon, when the sun is going down, but before the sun has set completely.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 04 2007,04:07) Jodi…..> your right they were killed at twilight that's in the morning of the 14th day. But the day of killing of the lambs was not a Holy Day at all, the passover which occurred the midnight following the killing of the lambs which would have put it night of the 15th, so the fifteenth was the actual PASSOVER , remember the pasover was when the Death Angle Passed Over the houses that had the blood of the lamb on its door posts, sometimes called the (Night to be Much Remembered). At the time of Jesus's crucifiction the 14th was a wednsday and the passover Holy Day was on the 15th and the next day 16th was the First Day of Unleavened Bread, when the Israelites were leaving Egyt (a type of sin or leavening), they were being Unleavened so to speek. The next day was the 17th day regular sabbath day.
The days fell like this,
Wednsday the 14th..> the lambs, Jesus, Died
Thursday the 15th….>Passover..a Holy Day
Friday the 16th………>Unleavened Bread a Holy Day
Saturday the 17th…..> Regular Sabbath DayThis is the way i understand it…….gene
Gene,
According to Scripture the First Day of Unleavened Bread is always on the 15th day of the 1st month.Passover is always on the 14th day of the 1st month.
Wed. = Passover (preparation day for High Sabbath)
Th= Unleavened Bread (High Sabbath, no work)
Fr= Preparation day for weekly Sabbath
Sabbath= No work
!st Day= First Fruits (no “servile work”)There is a difference between “no work” and “no servile work”
No work means no work of any kind, except like Y'shua taught we can help one another even if it means putting on a pair of work boots to get the calf out of the mud hole, or bring chicken soup to the sick neighbor.
No servile work, means we can do the work necessary to complete the things necessary for the Feast, but we do not work for our employers where we would gain financially from that work.So on that 1st day when they brought the spices to the tomb, it was allowed. That was First Fruits.
Now, why didn't they bring the spices on the High Sabbath, after all it seems good?
Because He was dead, it wasn't a necessity.Jodi,
Your confusion is very understandable! It would be a good idea to draw on paper a timeline. Use one square for each day of the week. Make two weeks, two rows of 7 squares.Sunday is the 1st day of the week so write the days above the squares.
Divide all the squares in thirds, top to bottom. The center of each square represents middle of the day, the sunniest part of the day. The first section of each square is sunset to dark. The last section of each square is daylight to sunset.
Now beginning with the top row number the squares beginning at the 1st day Sunday should be the 11th day and the last day of the two weeks would be the 24th day.
Now that you have a Biblical calander you can see more clearly.
If you were to overlap the Roman calander the one we use now, it might say Wed. April 4th begins at midnight on Wed. Abib 14.
The Biblical calander according to our Creator begins the first visible sliver of the new moon. The year begins when the barly is at a certain stage of ripeness. YHWH tells us when the years begin, and when the months begin. This is the reason He created the sun and the moon. If these special days didn't matter any more, there would not be the need for the sun and the moon. He made all things so that we could glorify Him.
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