This is my beloved Son

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
“There is only one way to be sinless and that is to bear the fruit of the Spirit. “

So the perfect obedience to the Law in the case of Jesus was ineffective??

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Did Jesus break the Law?
Could he be clean by obedience to the Law?

Or was the law a fake?

Even ignorant gentiles outside the law could satisfy the demands of God
Romans 2:14
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Your own demands of logic are perverting the scriptures IMO

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 09 2014,07:39)

Hi KW, “There is only one way to be sinless and that is to bear the fruit of the Spirit. “ So the perfect obedience to the Law in the case of Jesus was ineffective??

Nick,

The law one has to obey is the Law of Love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus obeyed that law even when it conflicted with the Law of Moses as he correctly interpreted the words of God.

Paul declared his obedience to the Law of Mosses was faultless even though he sinned and had not yet come to the full knowledge of the truth, Philippians 3:6.

There is only one was not to sin and that is bear the fruit of the Spirit.  That is why Paul glorified Jesus for freeing him from servitude to sin, Romans 7:25.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Jesus was sinless when he was baptised showing that the Law could be obeyed and effective.
He never produced any bad fruit because that is the fruit of sin in the flesh.

But it is not proof that he was filled with the Spirit before the Jordan

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Man is not a helpless puppet either driven by demons or the Spirit.
If gentiles like Cornelius can fulfil the law then the law unto righteousness is effective

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 09 2014,07:39)

Hi KW, “There is only one way to be sinless and that is to bear the fruit of the Spirit. “ So the perfect obedience to the Law in the case of Jesus was ineffective??

N

no one can become sinless no matter what he does ;we only come to the forgiveness of our sins is through the grace of God

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ June 09 2014,10:50)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 09 2014,07:39) Hi KW, “There is only one way to be sinless and that is to bear the fruit of the Spirit. “ So the perfect obedience to the Law in the case of Jesus was ineffective?? N no one can become sinless no matter what he does ;we only come to the forgiveness of our sins is through the grace of God

T,

By faith in God all things are possible.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 09 2014,08:27)

Hi KW, Jesus was sinless when he was baptised showing that the Law could be obeyed and effective. He never produced any bad fruit because that is the fruit of sin in the flesh. But it is not proof that he was filled with the Spirit before the Jordan

Nick,

You are missing the reason a new covenant was required, a covenant that was for both the Jew and the Gentile. Before the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost all men were slaves to sin except Jesus who God placed his Spirit upon. There was none righteous not one. No one, including Jesus, can do all that is right by their own effort.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Jesus fulfilled the law perfectly with no advantage over any other Jewish man.
God is fair.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 09 2014,15:54)

Hi KW, Jesus fulfilled the law perfectly with no advantage over any other Jewish man. God is fair.

N

yes,Jesus did fulfilled the law but he was not from earth ,he came down from the father to fulfill it ;because no one single man born of a man could save another all have sin and are coming short of the glory of God ,

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
He was conceived of Mary.
Son of Man and Son of God.

you get confused with the Word

[kerwin]

Nick,

God is fair and the only advantage Jesus had over every other Jewish man was the amount of his faith. God placed his spirit on him, Isaiah 42:1, so that he could bring in effect the new covenant because the covenant of Moses was not put within them and written it on their hearts and minds. As Paul said you could faultlessly keep the Law and still fall short of the glory of God but Jesus and those that through faith receive and live by the Spirit bear its fruits. After all no one is declared righteous by the works of the Law but now by living according to the teachings of the Spirit the righteousness of God has been disclosed, Romans 3:20-21.

Isaiah 42:1
New English Translation (NET)

42 “Here is my servant whom I support,
my chosen one in whom I take pleasure.
I have placed my spirit on him;
he will make just decrees for the nations.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
New English Translation (NET)

31 “Indeed, a time is coming,” says the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. 32 It will not be like the old covenant that I made with their ancestors when I delivered them from Egypt. For they violated that covenant, even though I was like a faithful husband to them,” says the Lord. 33 “But I will make a new covenant with the whole nation of Israel after I plant them back in the land,” says the Lord. “I will put my law within them and write it on their hearts and minds. I will be their God and they will be my people.
34 “People will no longer need to teach their neighbors and relatives to know me. For all of them, from the least important to the most important, will know me,” says the Lord. “For I will forgive their sin and will no longer call to mind the wrong they have done.”

Romans 3:20-21
New English Translation (NET)

20 For no one is declared righteous before him by the works of the law, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin. 21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God (although it is attested by the law and the prophets) has been disclosed—

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
So till the Jordan was an ordinary Jewish man made clean by perfect obedience to the Law.
He was fit to be made the spiritual Son of God at the Jordan and to execute the will of God in power.

Righteousness is in the eyes of God not those of men.

[kerwin]

Nick,

You are contradicting the Scripture that states ” For no one is declared righteous before him by the works of the law..”

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The law in no longer unto salvation as Jesus has made the standard now perfection.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
The WORKS of the law indeed cannot make man righteous.
Without faith no man can please God.
Do you doubt the faith of Jesus?

2.Psalm 19:7
The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2014,02:51)

Hi KW, Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. The law in no longer unto salvation as Jesus has made the standard now perfection.

Nick,

I am quoting from Romans 3:20-21 that seems to state a similar idea to Galatians 2:16.

The bottom line is “no one is declared righteous before him by the works of the law…”.  I see no reason why Jesus is not included in that statement and you claim that he is an exception but do not give any reason why that is so.

I agree the standard is now perfection and that can only be done by living by the Spirit.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2014,02:53)

Hi KW, The WORKS of the law indeed cannot make man righteous. Without faith no man can please God. Do you doubt the faith of Jesus? 2.Psalm 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Nick,

I do not doubt his faith but I do not see the way to all that is righteous without living by the Spirit in Scripture.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
What are the WORKS of the law you think Jesus failed in?

.Romans 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

.Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1.Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
You only say these things to support your inferential and unscriptural belief that Jesus was anointed before the Jordan.

Can you accuse Jesus of failing here?

.Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

[Author]

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