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Well, It is a certain special circumstance in the fact that it is forbidden to disturb the dead and the scripture does say:
Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward; but the memory of them is lost.What is interesting is that Samuel said
- “and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me.”
With me where is a good question, I of course agree that there is no conscious place they are going where they will be speaking to one another primarily because Samuel said he was “disturbed”
It does seem obviously then that some of those that deal with spirits have the ability to disturb or disrupt the process which is why God says not to suffer them at the same time the Spirit is the active continuing knowledge that ceases to operate in the dead which is why they know nothing or at least nothing new….it’s funny because even when mediums talk to spirits they never really say anything other than what was already known by them so it does seem more like the Body is a vehicle for the soul but the Spirit is something extra given by God because he calls you a Soul but he gives you His Spirit, like animals have souls but not spirits….I could be wrong but I am just working it out I don’t feel it’s the least bit important to know so there is no argument here just a discussion. In Islam it is viewed more like you sleep in that you are completely unconscious and God simply keeps you in mind until the day of Judgement in which you will then be re-created/resurrected and Judged at that point you will receive the grace of God or inherit the Hell you earned, in-fact the Quran and the Jews believe that when you sleep your soul at some point leaves the Body to be nourished by God.
It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death; and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep: those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (from returning to life), but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed verily in this are Signs for those who reflect.
( سورة الزمر , Az-Zumar, Chapter #39, Verse #42)He is the irresistible, (watching) from above over His worshippers, and He sets guardians over you. At length, when death approaches one of you, Our angels take his soul, and they never fail in their duty.
( سورة الأنعام , Al-Anaam, Chapter #6, Verse #61)
I just wanted to share those thoughts as well, I notice when Jesus talks about destroying both Body and Soul in hell it doesn’t mention “spirit” without that Body that has a soul you would be left with an evil spirit which is why perhaps evil spirits desire so much to possess a living Body(soul)…. I admit I am just thinking out loud but what do you guys think….one thing is for sure in the NT people were constantly being invaded by evil spirits just as fast as they could be cast out.
Hi BD,
God does not give men of HIS Spirit.
He gives men a spirit and he gives a spirit to animals [ecc]
Men need to find access to the Spirit of eternal life before they die[ecc 12]
Nick……Yes your “whole” spirit and body which is your soul, be preserved . Get it, all three words are conclusive in what you are, as a living Soul, or being, so what he said would naturally include your complete being which is you a “living Soul” If I said may your motor, tires, and car be preserved, does that mean your car, does not include the motor and tires? There all part of the one thing, the car. Even so the Paul said may your spirit soul and body be preserved all that is included as a living soul. Paul was just saying the complete you, that includes all those things, he was not saying all those things were separate parts, as you assume he is. Just two of those thing were part of you the other was the complete you, the “living soul”.
peace and love toy you and yours………………….gene
Hi GB,
As expected you have a complex understanding to cover your refusal to accept what is simply written.
Hi BD,
Those who are in Christ do not come to the judgement seat.
And in the detail of the last judgement salvation granted is according to specific criteria- how they treated the brothers of Jesus.
The better way
Jn5.24
Truly truly, I say to you,he who hears my word and believes Him Who sent me, has eternal life, and DOES NOT COME INTO JUDGEMENT, but has already passed over from death into life”
Genesis 6:3
And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.Genesis 41:38
And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is?Exodus 31:3
and I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,How do you perceive these passages? These are also long long before Jesus came onto the scene
Okay so what we have is the LIVING SOUL which includes the BODY, so are you saying the Spiritual aspects is one that is acquired in time such as John the Baptist
Luke 1:80Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
80 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.
Or Jesus:
Luke 2:40Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
and in cases such as Elijah it was such a resource that could actually be given to someone else
2 Kings 2:9
And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.or in the case of Jesus:
John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:It seems the soul doesn’t have any special abilities except animation but spirit seems to have faculty/intellect/knowledge
Hi BD,
The reason these verses stand out is that God had specially chosen to share of His Spirit with these men.
The Spirit of Christ was in the prophets. [1peter 1.10f]
Hi BD,
Man is not God.
Man is given a human spirit.
But God wants to share his Holy Spirit of eternal life with all men.
But Jesus Christ is the door
James 2:26Darby Translation (DARBY)
26 For as the body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
This is what I agree with as well but are you saying that the Spirit is The soul?
I guess what I am saying is spirits without bodies are never called living souls, I’m just wondering what you think not arguing
Hi BD,
No the spirit is not the soul.
Sometimes scripture does not clearly discriminate between them.
But there is a division as Heb 4 12 f shows
Man became a living[spirit] soul[soul]
Hi Nick
Hebrews 4:12Darby Translation (DARBY)
12 For the word of God [is] living and operative, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and penetrating to [the] division of soul and spirit, both of joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of [the] heart.
Job 4:15Darby Translation (DARBY)
15 And a spirit passed before my face—the hair of my flesh stood up—
So in Hebrews it shows a distinction whereas in Job a Spirit has nothing to do with a living soul, what I am saying is evil spirits are not living souls are they?
Biblically the soul seems to be more personal and individual the bible says that even God has a Soul:
Leviticus 26:30
And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.So perhaps the soul is identity and the Spirit is existence itself but obviously if God is saying he has a soul then it cannot be directly connected to only having a flesh body, so Body seems to be machinery, Soul seems to be identity and Spirit seems to be the form/mode of existence, what do you think?
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