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Mike,
Originally ED J denied that Christ is the owner [of the kingdom]
I replied to ED J:
Quote The scripture is very clear that Jesus us the “heir” of all things (Hebrews 1). This makes Him the owner. The heir is the owner dude. What world do you live in?
thinker
Then you replied to me:Quote Hi thinker, And we will be joint heirs. Will we all be the owners? Will we all be God Almighty?
peace and love,
mikeYou are attempting to deny Christ's true ownership of the kingdom on the basis that we will be “joint” owners too. But the scripture does not teach this at all.
POINT I: Paul said that we will be heirs of Christ.
17and if children, also heirs, heirs, indeed, of God, and heirs together of Christ — if, indeed, we suffer together, that we may also be glorified together. Young's Literal Translation
The Greek says that we will be heirs together “of Christ.” It does not say that we will be joint heirs with Christ of anything He owns. We together are heirs of God and of Christ. This happens when we are conformed into Chrit's image (vs. 30).
We will not be “co owners” with Christ of anything He owns. Our inheritance is salvation by our being made into Christ's image.
Christ is the sole heir of the kingdom: 1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
Mike errs as usual. Hebrews 1 says that Christ is the “heir of ALL THINGS.” But chapter 2 says that we are the heirs OF SALVATION. Never is it said that we are “co owners” with christ of His own possessions. We are heirs “of salvation.”
Paul said that we are heirs OF CHRIST as I have already shown. He did not say that we arte “joint heirs” of anything with Him. WE ARE HEIRS OF HIM!
POINT 2: Paul said and Mike affirms that when Christ would return that He delivers the kingdom to the Father.
Mike takes this to mean that the Father will take the kingdom away from Christ. Well, if we are “join-heirs” with Christ, then we will end up with nothing just like Christ.
So you need to explain how we will be “joint heirs” with Christ's of His possessions when you believe that Christ will no longer have them at the end.
When will you learn to read the scripture in context?
PLEASE DO NOT POST HERE IF YOU ARE NOT THETHINKER OR MIKEBOLL
THANK YOU!
thinker
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 08 2010,14:34) Answered in two different topics already. peace and love,
mike
Mike,
Let's do it one on one here. I would rather keep the novices out of it, not that you are not also a novice. You are just a more creative novice.thinker
Hey Thinker,
Is this your way of skipping over the right hand thing on to something else?
Answer what I posted in the jodi lee today. put your answer in here, and I'll respond here tomorrow or Sat., most likely
later,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ April 09 2010,14:46) Hey Thinker, Is this your way of skipping over the right hand thing on to something else?
Answer what I posted in the jodi lee today. put your answer in here, and I'll respond here tomorrow or Sat., most likely
later,
mike
Mike,I ain't skipping over nuttin. Concede that Jesus is the firstborn Son in relation to God and Brother in relation to men alone and we will move on to the next point.
Why would you think I am avoiding the point? Did I avoid it when we first talked about it? I answered it didn't I? Paul said that Christ “will be” subject to the Father. This means that He was not subject when Paul wrote those words. And if not subject then equal.
So you have no case anyway. And I will say no more about this until you concede the biblical meaning of the word “firstborn.”
The firstborn is the eldest Son to a father and the eldest brother to a family. This is the clear biblical meaning and you must concede the self evident and the plain if you want to move on to the next point.
thinker
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