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Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 05 2013,18:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 06 2013,10:44) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 04 2013,22:13) The word *God* is not a name;it is a title.
The word allah is also not a name;its a title.
Correct. The Hebrew word “el” means “god”. The Arabic word “allah” means “the god”.It is NOT the proper name of God, which was given by Him as YHWH.
Mike B.Have you noticed the angels names?
Micha'el,Gabri'el, Rapha'el,Phanu'el.
Immmanu'el(God with us).wakeup.
I'm not aware of Raphael and Phanuel.But yes, a lot of names in scripture have the suffix “el”.
My name, Michael, means “Who is like God?”
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 07 2013,10:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 07 2013,03:53) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 06 2013,13:43) Hi boditharta. What does ishmail(ishmael) mean?
As for the flesh there are many called by angels names.
And also names like,Dani'el is one;(Ezieki'el)?
Even the name Jesus is given to some.wakeup.
Ishmael means 'God will listen'
Boditharta.Thank you,and here are some scriptures for you.
Genesis 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; **because the LORD hath **heard thy affliction**.
GOD DID LISTEN TO HAGARS PLEA.
Genesis 16:15 And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.
Genesis 16:16 And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.
Genesis 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
Genesis 17:20 ** And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee**: Behold, *I have blessed him*, and will make him *fruitful*, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen.17:21. But *my covenant* will I establish with Isaac.
Isaac was born by *Gods promise* to abraham.
Christians will be *born again* by Jesus promise.
And that is the resurrection.wakeup.
wakeup.
Ismael was already under a Covenant with God before Isaac was born, Isaac had an additional covenant with God.Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 07 2013,10:15) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 07 2013,10:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 07 2013,03:53) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 06 2013,13:43) Hi boditharta. What does ishmail(ishmael) mean?
As for the flesh there are many called by angels names.
And also names like,Dani'el is one;(Ezieki'el)?
Even the name Jesus is given to some.wakeup.
Ishmael means 'God will listen'
Boditharta.Thank you,and here are some scriptures for you.
Genesis 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; **because the LORD hath **heard thy affliction**.
GOD DID LISTEN TO HAGARS PLEA.
Genesis 16:15 And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.
Genesis 16:16 And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.
Genesis 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
Genesis 17:20 ** And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee**: Behold, *I have blessed him*, and will make him *fruitful*, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen.17:21. But *my covenant* will I establish with Isaac.
Isaac was born by *Gods promise* to abraham.
Christians will be *born again* by Jesus promise.
And that is the resurrection.wakeup.
wakeup.
Ismael was already under a Covenant with God before Isaac was born, Isaac had an additional covenant with God.
Boditharta.I dont see any covenant made with ishmael,
can you show us?Gods promises **Abraham and Sarah**,that they will have a son. And that promise has been fulfilled by the birth of Isaac. Not Ishmail,for he was not that promise.
Ishmael was born of Hagar,not Sarah.
Abraham had concubines.
1 Chronicles 1:32 Now the sons of *Keturah*, *Abraham's concubine*: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 07 2013,12:47) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 07 2013,10:15) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 07 2013,10:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 07 2013,03:53) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 06 2013,13:43) Hi boditharta. What does ishmail(ishmael) mean?
As for the flesh there are many called by angels names.
And also names like,Dani'el is one;(Ezieki'el)?
Even the name Jesus is given to some.wakeup.
Ishmael means 'God will listen'
Boditharta.Thank you,and here are some scriptures for you.
Genesis 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; **because the LORD hath **heard thy affliction**.
GOD DID LISTEN TO HAGARS PLEA.
Genesis 16:15 And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.
Genesis 16:16 And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.
Genesis 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
Genesis 17:20 ** And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee**: Behold, *I have blessed him*, and will make him *fruitful*, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen.17:21. But *my covenant* will I establish with Isaac.
Isaac was born by *Gods promise* to abraham.
Christians will be *born again* by Jesus promise.
And that is the resurrection.wakeup.
wakeup.
Ismael was already under a Covenant with God before Isaac was born, Isaac had an additional covenant with God.
Boditharta.I dont see any covenant made with ishmael,
can you show us?Gods promises **Abraham and Sarah**,that they will have a son. And that promise has been fulfilled by the birth of Isaac. Not Ishmail,for he was not that promise.
Ishmael was born of Hagar,not Sarah.
Abraham had concubines.
1 Chronicles 1:32 Now the sons of *Keturah*, *Abraham's concubine*: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.
wakeup.
Genesis 16:3
And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.Genesis 17:9-11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. 10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. 11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Genesis 17:23
And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham’s house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 08 2013,11:38) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 07 2013,12:47) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 07 2013,10:15) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 07 2013,10:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 07 2013,03:53) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 06 2013,13:43) Hi boditharta. What does ishmail(ishmael) mean?
As for the flesh there are many called by angels names.
And also names like,Dani'el is one;(Ezieki'el)?
Even the name Jesus is given to some.wakeup.
Ishmael means 'God will listen'
Boditharta.Thank you,and here are some scriptures for you.
Genesis 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; **because the LORD hath **heard thy affliction**.
GOD DID LISTEN TO HAGARS PLEA.
Genesis 16:15 And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.
Genesis 16:16 And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.
Genesis 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
Genesis 17:20 ** And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee**: Behold, *I have blessed him*, and will make him *fruitful*, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen.17:21. But *my covenant* will I establish with Isaac.
Isaac was born by *Gods promise* to abraham.
Christians will be *born again* by Jesus promise.
And that is the resurrection.wakeup.
wakeup.
Ismael was already under a Covenant with God before Isaac was born, Isaac had an additional covenant with God.
Boditharta.I dont see any covenant made with ishmael,
can you show us?Gods promises **Abraham and Sarah**,that they will have a son. And that promise has been fulfilled by the birth of Isaac. Not Ishmail,for he was not that promise.
Ishmael was born of Hagar,not Sarah.
Abraham had concubines.
1 Chronicles 1:32 Now the sons of *Keturah*, *Abraham's concubine*: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.
wakeup.
Genesis 16:3
And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.Genesis 17:9-11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. 10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. 11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Genesis 17:23
And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham’s house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.
Boditharta.We have been through this before.
The covenant is between God and Abraham.
Not with every member of his family.
Just with the head of the house;Abraham.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 08 2013,15:08) Boditharta. We have been through this before.
The covenant is between God and Abraham.
Not with every member of his family.
Just with the head of the house;Abraham.wakeup.
Obviously the covenant of circumcision was not with Abraham only otherwise only he would need to be circumcised.God was with Ishmael regardless f how you would like to diminish that fact:
Genesis 21:20
And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.This is a fact remember his name is ISHMAEL “God will listen” he was born with this name
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,02:12) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 08 2013,15:08) Boditharta. We have been through this before.
The covenant is between God and Abraham.
Not with every member of his family.
Just with the head of the house;Abraham.wakeup.
Obviously the covenant of circumcision was not with Abraham only otherwise only he would need to be circumcised.God was with Ishmael regardless f how you would like to diminish that fact:
Genesis 21:20
And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.This is a fact remember his name is ISHMAEL “God will listen” he was born with this name
bodso ISMAEL,AD RECEIVED THE SAME THING THAT ALL THE SLAVES THAT ABRAHAM AD ,RIGHT ,YES
but IF HIS NAME MEANS; “God will listen” THEN FOR SURE HE DID NOT LISTEN TO GOD, IN HIS WAYS,
OR DID HE
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 09 2013,08:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,02:12) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 08 2013,15:08) Boditharta. We have been through this before.
The covenant is between God and Abraham.
Not with every member of his family.
Just with the head of the house;Abraham.wakeup.
Obviously the covenant of circumcision was not with Abraham only otherwise only he would need to be circumcised.God was with Ishmael regardless f how you would like to diminish that fact:
Genesis 21:20
And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.This is a fact remember his name is ISHMAEL “God will listen” he was born with this name
bodso ISMAEL,AD RECEIVED THE SAME THING THAT ALL THE SLAVES THAT ABRAHAM AD ,RIGHT ,YES
but IF HIS NAME MEANS; “God will listen” THEN FOR SURE HE DID NOT LISTEN TO GOD, IN HIS WAYS,
OR DID HE
Abraha was married to Hagar I have already shown this over and over. I prefer if we are to have a discussion to at least retain what has been shown as to not repeat the same things over and over when they are not in dispute. Do you dispute this?Genesis 16:3
And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.If you do not dispute this then let's not keep going over it, okay?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,05:06) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 09 2013,08:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,02:12) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 08 2013,15:08) Boditharta. We have been through this before.
The covenant is between God and Abraham.
Not with every member of his family.
Just with the head of the house;Abraham.wakeup.
Obviously the covenant of circumcision was not with Abraham only otherwise only he would need to be circumcised.God was with Ishmael regardless f how you would like to diminish that fact:
Genesis 21:20
And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.This is a fact remember his name is ISHMAEL “God will listen” he was born with this name
bodso ISMAEL,AD RECEIVED THE SAME THING THAT ALL THE SLAVES THAT ABRAHAM AD ,RIGHT ,YES
but IF HIS NAME MEANS; “God will listen” THEN FOR SURE HE DID NOT LISTEN TO GOD, IN HIS WAYS,
OR DID HE
Abraha was married to Hagar I have already shown this over and over. I prefer if we are to have a discussion to at least retain what has been shown as to not repeat the same things over and over when they are not in dispute. Do you dispute this?Genesis 16:3
And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.If you do not dispute this then let's not keep going over it, okay?
BODNo,in those days when you had sex with a women ;that was the act of union (mariage) not like today ,
but many ad many of those ,so do not take this to far ,women number one is the one that really is in charge,
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 09 2013,10:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,05:06) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 09 2013,08:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,02:12) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 08 2013,15:08) Boditharta. We have been through this before.
The covenant is between God and Abraham.
Not with every member of his family.
Just with the head of the house;Abraham.wakeup.
Obviously the covenant of circumcision was not with Abraham only otherwise only he would need to be circumcised.God was with Ishmael regardless f how you would like to diminish that fact:
Genesis 21:20
And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.This is a fact remember his name is ISHMAEL “God will listen” he was born with this name
bodso ISMAEL,AD RECEIVED THE SAME THING THAT ALL THE SLAVES THAT ABRAHAM AD ,RIGHT ,YES
but IF HIS NAME MEANS; “God will listen” THEN FOR SURE HE DID NOT LISTEN TO GOD, IN HIS WAYS,
OR DID HE
Abraha was married to Hagar I have already shown this over and over. I prefer if we are to have a discussion to at least retain what has been shown as to not repeat the same things over and over when they are not in dispute. Do you dispute this?Genesis 16:3
And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.If you do not dispute this then let's not keep going over it, okay?
BODNo,in those days when you had sex with a women ;that was the act of union (mariage) not like today ,
but many ad many of those ,so do not take this to far ,women number one is the one that really is in charge,
Not really because many were called concubines and als sex didn't mean marriage because there were also prostitutes. To be called wife was to be held in the highest sense.Any way you look at it Hagar was th Wife of Abraham according to the scriptures and Ishmael was his First born
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 07 2013,10:12) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 05 2013,18:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 06 2013,10:44) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 04 2013,22:13) The word *God* is not a name;it is a title.
The word allah is also not a name;its a title.
Correct. The Hebrew word “el” means “god”. The Arabic word “allah” means “the god”.It is NOT the proper name of God, which was given by Him as YHWH.
Mike B.Have you noticed the angels names?
Micha'el,Gabri'el, Rapha'el,Phanu'el.
Immmanu'el(God with us).wakeup.
I'm not aware of Raphael and Phanuel.But yes, a lot of names in scripture have the suffix “el”.
My name, Michael, means “Who is like God?”
Mike B.There are four chiefs(arc angels).
1.Micha'el.
2.Rapha'el.
3.Phanu'el.
4.Gabri'el.
Each have a task to do.wakeup.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,05:20) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 09 2013,10:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,05:06) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 09 2013,08:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,02:12) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 08 2013,15:08) Boditharta. We have been through this before.
The covenant is between God and Abraham.
Not with every member of his family.
Just with the head of the house;Abraham.wakeup.
Obviously the covenant of circumcision was not with Abraham only otherwise only he would need to be circumcised.God was with Ishmael regardless f how you would like to diminish that fact:
Genesis 21:20
And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.This is a fact remember his name is ISHMAEL “God will listen” he was born with this name
bodso ISMAEL,AD RECEIVED THE SAME THING THAT ALL THE SLAVES THAT ABRAHAM AD ,RIGHT ,YES
but IF HIS NAME MEANS; “God will listen” THEN FOR SURE HE DID NOT LISTEN TO GOD, IN HIS WAYS,
OR DID HE
Abraha was married to Hagar I have already shown this over and over. I prefer if we are to have a discussion to at least retain what has been shown as to not repeat the same things over and over when they are not in dispute. Do you dispute this?Genesis 16:3
And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.If you do not dispute this then let's not keep going over it, okay?
BODNo,in those days when you had sex with a women ;that was the act of union (mariage) not like today ,
but many ad many of those ,so do not take this to far ,women number one is the one that really is in charge,
Not really because many were called concubines and als sex didn't mean marriage because there were also prostitutes. To be called wife was to be held in the highest sense.Any way you look at it Hagar was th Wife of Abraham according to the scriptures and Ishmael was his First born
bod16:1 And Sara the wife of Abram bore him no children; and she had an Egyptian maid, whose name was Agar. 2 And Sara said to Abram, Behold, the Lord has restrained me from bearing, go therefore in to my maid, that I may get children for myself through her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sara. 3 So Sara the wife of Abram having taken Agar the Egyptian her handmaid, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Chanaan, gave her to Abram her husband as a wife to him. 4 And he went in to Agar, and she conceived, and saw that she was with child, and her mistress was dishonoured before her. 5 And Sara said to Abram, I am injured by thee; I gave my handmaid into thy bosom, and when I saw that she was with child, I was dishonoured before her. The Lord judge between me and thee. 6 And Abram said to Sara, Behold thy handmaid is in thy hands, use her as it may seem good to thee. And Sara afflicted her, and she fled from her face. LXX
I THINK YOUR VIEW IS NOT SOLID HERE
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,10:20) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 09 2013,10:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,05:06) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 09 2013,08:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,02:12) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 08 2013,15:08) Boditharta. We have been through this before.
The covenant is between God and Abraham.
Not with every member of his family.
Just with the head of the house;Abraham.wakeup.
Obviously the covenant of circumcision was not with Abraham only otherwise only he would need to be circumcised.God was with Ishmael regardless f how you would like to diminish that fact:
Genesis 21:20
And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.This is a fact remember his name is ISHMAEL “God will listen” he was born with this name
bodso ISMAEL,AD RECEIVED THE SAME THING THAT ALL THE SLAVES THAT ABRAHAM AD ,RIGHT ,YES
but IF HIS NAME MEANS; “God will listen” THEN FOR SURE HE DID NOT LISTEN TO GOD, IN HIS WAYS,
OR DID HE
Abraha was married to Hagar I have already shown this over and over. I prefer if we are to have a discussion to at least retain what has been shown as to not repeat the same things over and over when they are not in dispute. Do you dispute this?Genesis 16:3
And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.If you do not dispute this then let's not keep going over it, okay?
BODNo,in those days when you had sex with a women ;that was the act of union (mariage) not like today ,
but many ad many of those ,so do not take this to far ,women number one is the one that really is in charge,
Not really because many were called concubines and als sex didn't mean marriage because there were also prostitutes. To be called wife was to be held in the highest sense.Any way you look at it Hagar was th Wife of Abraham according to the scriptures and Ishmael was his First born
Boditharta.Esau was also the first born,but God chose Jacob.
Reuben was also the first born,but God chose Joseph.
David had elder brothers,but God chose David.
Isma'el was the first born,but God chose Isaac.
So the straw you are holding on to, is not strong enough to support your claim.This is what is prophesied regarding Ishma'el:
Genesis 16:12 And he will be **a wild man**; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
NOT IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD;BUT IN THE PRESENCE OF HIS BRETHREN.Genesis 25:12 Now these are the generations of Ishmael, Abraham's son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, **Sarah's handmaid**, bare unto Abraham:
HAND MAID;NOT WIFE.
wakeup.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 09 2013,10:50) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,10:20) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 09 2013,10:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,05:06) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 09 2013,08:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 09 2013,02:12) Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 08 2013,15:08) Boditharta. We have been through this before.
The covenant is between God and Abraham.
Not with every member of his family.
Just with the head of the house;Abraham.wakeup.
Obviously the covenant of circumcision was not with Abraham only otherwise only he would need to be circumcised.God was with Ishmael regardless f how you would like to diminish that fact:
Genesis 21:20
And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.This is a fact remember his name is ISHMAEL “God will listen” he was born with this name
bodso ISMAEL,AD RECEIVED THE SAME THING THAT ALL THE SLAVES THAT ABRAHAM AD ,RIGHT ,YES
but IF HIS NAME MEANS; “God will listen” THEN FOR SURE HE DID NOT LISTEN TO GOD, IN HIS WAYS,
OR DID HE
Abraha was married to Hagar I have already shown this over and over. I prefer if we are to have a discussion to at least retain what has been shown as to not repeat the same things over and over when they are not in dispute. Do you dispute this?Genesis 16:3
And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.If you do not dispute this then let's not keep going over it, okay?
BODNo,in those days when you had sex with a women ;that was the act of union (mariage) not like today ,
but many ad many of those ,so do not take this to far ,women number one is the one that really is in charge,
Not really because many were called concubines and als sex didn't mean marriage because there were also prostitutes. To be called wife was to be held in the highest sense.Any way you look at it Hagar was th Wife of Abraham according to the scriptures and Ishmael was his First born
Boditharta.Esau was also the first born,but God chose Jacob.
Reuben was also the first born,but God chose Joseph.
David had elder brothers,but God chose David.
Isma'el was the first born,but God chose Isaac.
So the straw you are holding on to, is not strong enough to support your claim.This is what is prophesied regarding Ishma'el:
Genesis 16:12 And he will be **a wild man**; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
NOT IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD;BUT IN THE PRESENCE OF HIS BRETHREN.Genesis 25:12 Now these are the generations of Ishmael, Abraham's son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, **Sarah's handmaid**, bare unto Abraham:
HAND MAID;NOT WIFE.
wakeup.
wakeup.
Like I said you can play all the games you want but the fact remains that the scripture supports God supporting Ishmael and not turning away from Ishmael. The scriptures show God blessing Ishmael also.You keep insisting that if God blesses Isaac and makes a Covenent with Isaac it somehow diminishes God's relationship with Ishmael. God has had many covenants with many people.
God's Covenat with Noah didn't diminish God's covenant with Moses or the covenant with the gentiles did it?
Jesus said “do not go to the gentiles” why? Because he had no covenant with them elsewhy would he say do not go to the gentiles?
For what it's worth, Gods covenent was with humanity. He agrees to do everything, we just agree to have faith in him to do it.
Keturah and Hagar were concubines. All of Abraham’s property went to Isaac, the son of Sarah, the status wife.
Colter
Quote (Colter @ Sep. 09 2013,11:29) For what it's worth, Gods covenent was with humanity. He agrees to do everything, we just agree to have faith in him to do it. Keturah and Hagar were concubines. All of Abraham’s property went to Isaac, the son of Sarah, the status wife.
Colter
This is the main point and you actually made this very clear the covenant with Isaac was mostly concerning his property:Genesis 15:2-4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
2 And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus? 3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. 4 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
Actually Colter this is what Abraham had requested and God delivered to him an heir through Sarah it had no more mystical meaning than that. I'm not sure if you meant to pint that out but it was a blessing fo me to see that CLEARLY.
Abraham wished all his children well but as far as being his heir God gave him Isaac. God was still with all Abraham's offspring.
And Yes, totally agree God's covenant is with Humanity as he said to NOAH but each time groups try to conceal the truth
Ye People of the Book! Why do ye clothe Truth with falsehood, and conceal the Truth, while ye have knowledge?
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #71)
We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling-place, and provided for them sustenance of the best: it was after knowledge had been granted to them, that they fell into schisms. Verily Allah will judge between them as to the schisms amongst them, on the Day of Judgment.
( سورة يونس , Yunus, Chapter #10, Verse #93)
Quote ( @ –)
Boditharta.God has led the children of Isaac to the land of milk and honey. Not the children of Ishma'el.
God also sends his prophets to the children of Isaac,
not to the children of Ishma'el.The children of ishma'el is against the children of Isaac,
and so it is still today.Genesis 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, *mocking*.
Genesis 21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, *Cast out this bondwoman and her son*: for the son of this bondwoman **shall not be heir with my son**, even with Isaac.
Genesis 21:11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
Genesis 21:12 And *God said* unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for **in Isaac shall thy seed be called**.
Genesis 21:13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.
Genesis 21:14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed%
Why retrace Israel’s tragic broken agreement anyway? Israel is merely a museum to a failed calling, they were cut off, the light was then given to others, and their house was left desolate. Maybe God did try to work with Ishmaels descendants seeing how Isaac’s descendants failed their calling not withstanding Mohamed’s misunderstanding of Jesus?
After all, the apostles of Jesus themselves were often baffled by God incarnate in Jesus.Abrahams descendants failed to receive the promised Son whose coming was the very foundation of the faith of their ancestors.
Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?[j]“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
Colter
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 09 2013,15:51) <!–QuoteBegin–+—-> Quote ( @ –) <!–QuoteEBegin–>[/quote]
Boditharta.God has led the children of Isaac to the land of milk and honey. Not the children of Ishma'el.
God also sends his prophets to the children of Isaac,
not to the children of Ishma'el.The children of ishma'el is against the children of Isaac,
and so it is still today.Genesis 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, *mocking*.
Genesis 21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, *Cast out this bondwoman and her son*: for the son of this bondwoman **shall not be heir with my son**, even with Isaac.
Genesis 21:11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
Genesis 21:12 And *God said* unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for **in Isaac shall thy seed be called**.
Genesis 21:13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.
Genesis 21:14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed%
The prophecy has alreay come true in the Law where it says:Deuteronomy 21:15-17
New International Version (NIV)
The Right of the Firstborn
15 If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, 16 when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love. 17 He must acknowledge the son of his unloved wife as the firstborn by giving him a double share of all he has. That son is the first sign of his father’s strength. The right of the firstborn belongs to him.
Now go look and see the entire land is full with the descendents of th Firstborn of Abraham
“I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore”
If you don't count Ishmael this has not occured and it has as Coltr pointed out the Children of Israel broke their covenant and rejected their Messiah
Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 09 2013,15:51) Boditharta. God has led the children of Isaac to the land of milk and honey. Not the children of Ishma'el.
God also sends his prophets to the children of Isaac,
not to the children of Ishma'el.The children of ishma'el is against the children of Isaac,
and so it is still today.Genesis 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, *mocking*.
Genesis 21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, *Cast out this bondwoman and her son*: for the son of this bondwoman **shall not be heir with my son**, even with Isaac.
Genesis 21:11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
Genesis 21:12 And *God said* unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for **in Isaac shall thy seed be called**.
Genesis 21:13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.
Genesis 21:14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed%
The prophecy has alreay come true in the Law where it says:Deuteronomy 21:15-17
New International Version (NIV)
The Right of the Firstborn
15 If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, 16 when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love. 17 He must acknowledge the son of his unloved wife as the firstborn by giving him a double share of all he has. That son is the first sign of his father’s strength. The right of the firstborn belongs to him.
Now go look and see the entire land is full with the descendents of th Firstborn of Abraham
“I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore”
If you don't count Ishmael this has not occured and it has as Coltr pointed out the Children of Israel broke their covenant and rejected their Messiah
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