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Hi W,
I made no such statement but posed a question.
Please read carefully.
You say
“Since we know that he did not create himself then Jesus is not included in the “All things” and “Anything catagory”.Which means he is the creator. “
Is human logic meant to be used to discern what is spiritual-scripture?
NH
It is your human logic that says that Jesus was spoken into being!
Where is your proof NH?
I show you scripture that says “NOTHING” was made without him. Nothing came into existence without him.
Not human logic, but scriptural proof.
Now show me where your human logic is found that Jesus was spoke into existence or that he had a beginning?
You should repent of these lies from satan that Jesus had a beginning.
Hi W,
To recap,
I said
“Isaiah 45:23
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isaiah 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.Can you prove these do not refer to the Word of God? “
Do you grasp the idea yet?
No statement of fact but just a thought.
Thank you.worshiping Jesus> PETER SAID Jesus was ordained at the foundation of the world BUT>..Was Manifested in our time. Being ordained ment what he was to be, a prophetic statement ,and manifested means to bring forth Jesus was prophesied in the beginning when God said the womens seed would bruse the head of the serpent, but he did not come into existence until the proper time. Jesus was a created Human being just like we are only given a spical commention by The Father.
Hi GB,
The Word was with God in the beginning and God sent His beloved monogenes son into the world. He was of the flesh of Mary, a true son of Mary and even of Adam, and his heel indeed bruised Satan just as we, as reborn sons of God in Christ, also can do.Rom 16
“17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
19For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
20And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.”
He was seen by angels and men, manifested in flesh.
nick> yes he was seen by angles and men that doesn't mean he existed as a being pryer to his berth on earth, lets look at another example cyrus who was preordaind and named and told every thing he was going to do. he was born for the perpose of fulling God's will and their are many examples of preordination before they were born, king David said God formed him in his mother womb and even he said even the words he spoke were ordained be for he ever spoke them. and what about Jeremiah,5, then the word of the Lord came unto him saying, Before i formed thee in the belly I know thee and befoe thou camest forth out of the womb I Sanctified thee, I Ordained thee a prophet unto the nation, 9,then the lord put forth his hand and touched my mouth . And said unto me Behold I have put my words in thy Mouth.. does that make Jeremiah the Word then also or would Jeremiah say the words i am speaking are not mine also, just like Jesus said the words he spoke weren't his either.
these were all ordained by God and some before they were ever born, so why can't you see that with Jesus also. No where does it say that Jesus existed in a life form state pryer to his birth on earth he existed only in the plan and will of God and was Manifsted (brought forth at the proper time. Don't limit God's ability of creating Jesus as only a man. John said if we do not believe Jesus came in flesh (i.e. into being) as flesh we are not of God so the issue is very important , why is it so hard to see this why put on Jesus more then he is this is what trenatarians do by takeing a flesh and blood man and making him a God. i am sorry if i am being to strong but this issue is very important to me. God bless all those who are seeking the truth, you will find it. bless you all who are.Hi GB,
THe PLAN and WILL of God were not with God in the beginning.
God did not love His PLAN and WILL and send them into the world.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 19 2007,09:41) worshiping Jesus> PETER SAID Jesus was ordained at the foundation of the world BUT>..Was Manifested in our time. Being ordained ment what he was to be, a prophetic statement ,and manifested means to bring forth Jesus was prophesied in the beginning when God said the womens seed would bruse the head of the serpent, but he did not come into existence until the proper time. Jesus was a created Human being just like we are only given a spical commention by The Father.
So then it is not true that “Without him” nothing was made that was made?John 1:3
You have no scripture that says Jesus is a created being.
Scriptures teach otherwise!!!
Hi W,
Exactly.
He is the Son of God.
1 John 5:1
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.worshiping Jesus > your premmice is based on Jesus being the word and mine is that God own word spoke every thing into existance so without God nothing came into existance and Jesus said that God was the ONLY true God. that means there are no other true God's notice the word ONLY. and part of that God was his word, and a Word is not a person or being. you are following false trenitarian teachings Show me one place where Jesus ever said he was God or the WORD you cant find it, but i can show you where he showed he was not GOD and where he said the words he spoke were not his so show where he is the word. someone speaking God's word doesn't make him the word or God. I showed you where God used others to speak his words and it didn't make them God or the Word either. where is you proof for your belief in what you are saying.and gospel is not about worshiping Jesus it about worshiping the person Jesus worshiped and looking to the being Jesus looked to. His God and our God his Father and our Father just as he said. your worshiping the messenger but not obeying the message of the one who God sent to bear whitness of God. what is said in revelations about the people in the resurection. these are those who had the testominy of Moses and Jesus and keep the commandments of God. Just about all christanity has made Jesus the object of worship you hardly ever hear about the Father anymore he has been pushed aside in most churches and replaced by Jesus. Jesus never did that he only worshiped the Father as the only true God . we all know where his trust was, and ours should be in God the Father also just as he said. JESUS is not our GOD he is the one whom our God sent to us to draw all men to Himself just as it say's ,. For God was reconciling the whole world to Himself through Jesus notice who was God reconciling the world to Jesus or HIMSELF it say's HIMSELF. You remind me of the women who said to Jesus,.blessed are the paps you sucked. what was his answer look it up. Jesus ministry was not about himself he said if he glorfied himself it was nothing and said i have glorfied you (The Father) on the earth. Modern christanity has made Jesus the object of worship and by doing this have created another God which is idoloatry and is anti christ.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 19 2007,09:41) worshiping Jesus> PETER SAID Jesus was ordained at the foundation of the world BUT>..Was Manifested in our time. Being ordained ment what he was to be, a prophetic statement ,and manifested means to bring forth Jesus was prophesied in the beginning when God said the womens seed would bruse the head of the serpent, but he did not come into existence until the proper time. Jesus was a created Human being just like we are only given a spical commention by The Father.
Amen, Gene. I agree.
Jesus was the literal Son of God.
Never physically existing before he was born.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2007,11:22) Hi GB,
THe PLAN and WILL of God were not with God in the beginning.
God did not love His PLAN and WILL and send them into the world.
Yes, he did!Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 19 2007,11:25) You have no scripture that says Jesus is a created being. Scriptures teach otherwise!!!
Scriptures teach that Jesus was BORN!How did you begin, WJ?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 19 2007,14:15) your worshiping the messenger but not obeying the message of the one who God sent to bear whitness of God.
This is wisdom.Hi Gene.
There are 2 (that I know of) words for 'word' in scripture.
Rhema and Logos.
Jesus is the Logos according to John 1:1 and Revelation 19:13.
Yes Jesus came in the flesh and the Logos became flesh.
I see these 2 verses as complimentary.I don't think that the actual word turned into flesh, but that he came in the flesh.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2007,14:47) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2007,11:22) Hi GB,
THe PLAN and WILL of God were not with God in the beginning.
God did not love His PLAN and WILL and send them into the world.
Yes, he did!
Hi not3,
Is it written?Jesus Christ is a mystery that is being revealed. Scripture says that he was from ancient times and that nothing that was made was made without him.
Even if we don't fully understand, all we can do is believe what scripture says.
He has also returned to the glory that he had before.
Yes. The “Word/Logos” can be interpreted as being a plan or literal word of God. Just because the majority of Christians interpret John 1:1 as saying the Word is a person, doesn't mean it's true.
Besides, read what you wrote – “the plan and will of God were not with God in the beginning.” Of course they were! If God's plan was not with him, how did anything come into being?
Quote (t8 @ June 19 2007,15:00) Jesus Christ is a mystery that is being revealed. Scripture says that he was from ancient times and that nothing that was made was made without him. Even if we don't fully understand, all we can do is believe what scripture says.
He has also returned to the glory that he had before.
Hi t8,God is the Ancient of Days, himself. God, being the Father of Jesus, is also the source of Jesus. Therefore it is easy to see how Jesus' origins are of ancient times.
Jesus will come in his Father's glory. Why does he not come in his own glory if he had it *returned* to him?
I can appreciate the arguments of Unitarians as to why the Trinity is a false doctrine. But then they also say that Christ is only a man who started his life from the womb of Mary.
If it were true that God MADE a second Adam because of Adam's failure, then would Jesus have existed if Adam had been faithful?
I cannot accept that Jesus is nothing more than a replacement Adam. I believe that God made all things through him and for him.
Yes he is the only begotten because he was born through Mary by God, but scripture aplenty testifies of his origins and it wasn't in Mary's womb.
Being born of a woman allowed him to partake of human nature. He emptied himself and became a man.
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