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Mike,
Quote Again, I presume that the “only begotten SON” would be a PERSON That presumption does not take into account the Jewish culture of the First Century. Symbolism seemed to be used more commonly than it is today but John seems to indulge in it even more often than the writers of the other gospels.
Here is an article about PBS article about John's use of symbolism but I have not read much of it yet.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2014,21:25) Hi MB,
The Spirit.
So then NOT Jesus Christ? NOT Moses? NOT David and Solomon? NOT the angels? NOT God Himself, who often used angels and prophets to deliver His messages instead of the His Spirit?Hmmmm………… How did the disciples BEGIN learning about Jesus? How did the Gentiles BEGIN to learn about Jesus from Paul – BEFORE they had received the Spirit?
And most importantly, how did YOU begin to learn about God and Jesus? Were you born with the Spirit, and therefore a complete knowledge of everything scriptural?
Or did you learn things with your GOD-GIVEN MIND, and ALSO ask God to send His Spirit to help you understand those things?
And more to the point, if YOU teach what God has shown you, isn't it “YOUR teaching” – as opposed to something the Trinitarians teach? Can you say that YOU teach God is one, while the Trinitarians teach that He is three? Is it therefore YOUR teaching that God is one?
Stop playing games. Either comment something of SUBSTANCE, that ADDS to the discussion…….. or remain silent.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 19 2014,09:31) Mike, Quote It is not only the “became flesh” part, Kerwin. It is the rest of John 1, which tells us MANY things about this “Word” – things that are said elsewhere about JESUS in many other scriptures. They are all said about Jesus after the word was made flesh.
Okay. And what does that tell you? That the Word actually BECAME the being of Jesus, and therefore the things said about the Word could also be said about Jesus?Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 19 2014,09:38) Mike, Quote The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. This seems to support my understanding that the one who dwelt among them was a PERSON….. but maybe I'm just reading that into it.
I agree it is talking about a person as it is speaking of a time after the word was made flesh.
Again, it sounds to me like you believe the Word actually BECAME the person of Jesus after it was made flesh.Is that what you believe?
Hi MB,
It is your habit to elevate the flesh. It is most delusional
The flesh contributes nothing.The Seed is the Word
The Word of God is living and active and sharper than any two edged sword and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit..”
Heb4.12
No prophet or saint has any power to do anything useful for God except by the Spirit.You must be transformed by renewal of your mind.
Subject the vanity of the mind to renewal according to the WordQuote (kerwin @ Mar. 19 2014,09:48) Mike, Quote Again, I presume that the “only begotten SON” would be a PERSON That presumption does not take into account the Jewish culture of the First Century.
Well,If you have REASON to believe that John's phrase “only begotten Son of God” DOESN'T actually refer to the PERSON Jesus Christ, then let's hear it.
If you don't have reason to believe such a thing, then let's not discuss Hebrew symbolism at this time.
Kerwin, I await your thoughts on the rest of my post….. the last line of John 1:14 and the “grace and truth” thing.
Hi MB,
Feeding on the Word after rebirth allows transformation of the mind.
Jesus told us the Spirit would remind us of his words Jn 14.26Hi MB,
God is one.
He has a Son born of His Spirit.
In the Son many other sons are brought to eternal safetyNick,
I asked you by what means you learned about God BEFORE “the Spirit” was doing all of your thinking for you, and writing every word of every post on HN.
Please answer me.
Hi MB,
The gentle Spirit does not think for you.
The wind blows and you catch a whisper in your thoughtsQuote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 20 2014,07:49) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 19 2014,09:38) Mike, Quote The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. This seems to support my understanding that the one who dwelt among them was a PERSON….. but maybe I'm just reading that into it.
I agree it is talking about a person as it is speaking of a time after the word was made flesh.
Again, it sounds to me like you believe the Word actually BECAME the person of Jesus after it was made flesh.Is that what you believe?
Mike,All I am saying is Jesus had the qualities of the word after the word was made flesh.
Remember that was is a past tense form of “be” and among other things it is “used to describe the qualities of a person or thing'.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 20 2014,07:52) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 19 2014,09:48) Mike, Quote Again, I presume that the “only begotten SON” would be a PERSON That presumption does not take into account the Jewish culture of the First Century.
Well,If you have REASON to believe that John's phrase “only begotten Son of God” DOESN'T actually refer to the PERSON Jesus Christ, then let's hear it.
If you don't have reason to believe such a thing, then let's not discuss Hebrew symbolism at this time.
Kerwin, I await your thoughts on the rest of my post….. the last line of John 1:14 and the “grace and truth” thing.
Mike,What I said is a reason and should be considered but I am not sure if it actually makes any difference one way or another.
The use of a comparative in the sentence infers and possibly implies there are two things to be compared.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 20 2014,11:33) 1. All I am saying is Jesus had the qualities of the word after the word was made flesh. 2. Remember that was is a past tense form of “be” and among other things it is “used to describe the qualities of a person or thing'.
1. No, no, no, Kerwin! Not just “the Word was made flesh”! It is, The Word was made flesh AND dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son.How does that last part fit into your theory that a flesh human being merely partook in some of the qualities of a literal utterance from God's mouth?
2. I don't know what this even means.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 19 2014,21:51) Hi MB,
The gentle Spirit does not think for you.
The wind blows and you catch a whisper in your thoughts
Whose thoughts?
So then you admit that you do have a thought or two of your own, Nick?
I said all I need to say about this in the “Logic” thread.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 20 2014,11:39) Mike, 1. What I said is a reason and should be considered but I am not sure if it actually makes any difference one way or another.
2. The use of a comparative in the sentence infers and possibly implies there are two things to be compared.
1. I didn't see any “reason” for “the only begotten Son of God” referring to anyone other than Jesus at any time, Kerwin. Please expand or explain.2. I don't know what that even means.
Hi mb,
2 Corinthians 10:3-6For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ, being ready to punish every disobedience, when your obedience is complete.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 21 2014,06:50) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 20 2014,11:39) Mike, 1. What I said is a reason and should be considered but I am not sure if it actually makes any difference one way or another.
2. The use of a comparative in the sentence infers and possibly implies there are two things to be compared.
1. I didn't see any “reason” for “the only begotten Son of God” referring to anyone other than Jesus at any time, Kerwin. Please expand or explain.2. I don't know what that even means.
Mike,1 I have heard that the Jews called other things the only begotten of God. Philo is said to have placed that label on the word while others have been said to have called wisdom the only begotten of God.
2. The word infer means hints while the word implies means the logical result. A comparison is word that served to compare. In this case the word is hós. One thing I just learned is hós can also be used as a conjunction where is serves to connect parts of the sentence instead or as well. I do not know if any translators have translated it as a conjunction in John 1:14 but I do no at least one translation dropped it out of the verse.
I know what all those words mean, Kerwin. I didn't know you were talking about 1:14, or the word “hos”.
Where that word in 1:14? What is it translated as?
As for the only begotten stuff from Philo or whoever, you're reaching. Once again you are searching high and low for ANYTHING that can allow you to NOT understand it in the most logical way it could be meant in the scripture.
Kerwin, verse 14 THROUGH verse 17 all speak about the Word, and make it ABUNDANTLY clear who this “Word” is.
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