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Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ Aug. 05 2009,01:26) Jesus is the way
Yes Jesus is the way, but don't forget Jesus does nothing of himself, he only does that which he sees the Father do.Jesus is the way because the One and Only True God the Father made him to be such for us.
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants–things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,
Jesus, the human being resurrected with flesh and bone that can no longer see corruption, still even after his resurrection needs the Father. Jesus cannot even make his own Revelation, he needs the Father to give it to him.
Quote (kerwin @ July 29 2009,22:22) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 29 2009,14:08) Quote (kerwin @ July 29 2009,17:37) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 29 2009,04:12) Hi KW,
Do you think God meant us to test what is spiritual by what is carnal?
1Cor2
I know that God meant that we should test what we believe to be true and your teachings are false. I have found nowhere in scripture where God states that Jesus is his physical Son. On the other hand we are constantly told by him that Jesus is the physical Son,primary descendant, of David. We are also told that Jesus is the image of the invisible God whom we know is Spirit.Colossians 1:15(KJV) reads:
Quote He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Hi KW,
Is the Spirit as the finger of God?
Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit.What is false?
What you believe “Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit.” means. If you knew God you would not fall into that snare. God is Spirit and want's his children to worship him in the spirit and Jesus did just that which is why he is called the Son of God.It is true that the Holy Spirit worked a miracle and Jesus is the result. That is what conceived of the Holy Spirit means not that the Holy Spirit had sex with Mary.
I believe the Holy Spirit is to God as our Spirit is to us.
Good post brother Kerwin. But still invalid for virgin birth.Hi GM,
Do you have any evidence that shows what scripture says is untrue or is it all about your own inability to accept what is written?Quote (kerwin @ July 29 2009,22:22) I believe the Holy Spirit is to God as our Spirit is to us.
I always had a problem with this concept. While I accept that we humans are temporal beings with spirits or some other aspects beyond the material; God is himself a Spirit, and not a temporal being, so why would he need a Holy Spirit? It seems in this case redundant unless people see God as a corporal being like in the old renaissance paintings.Cato………..consider this, Spirit can never die, our Spirit or GOD'S Spirit , neither can die. The Soul (combination of a body and Spirit) can die, because when a man dies (his) Thought Parish , “The dead know nothing for in the day they die (their) thoughts (parish).. He no longer exists, and will remain that way for eternity unless GOD installs His Spirit into a new body. It is critical that we attain to a resurrection, without which we no longer exist. As far as Spirit is it is simply (intellect) and is useless without a body to animate. “When an unclean spirit goes out of a man (IT) goes about in arid places looking for rest, that unclean Spirit (intellect) is useless without a body , that is also the same with (any) Spirit (intellect) its useless without a body. A body without Spirit is useless and a Spirit without a body is useless also. Therefore GOD who is SPIRIT (intellect) can dwell in Bodies which He call temples to dwell in. He gives us a body Just as He pleases and sends Spirit(intellect) into it to animate it. All creation is animated with Spirit. It is in everything that has life. God who is Spirit in all and through all. And because Spirit (intellect) can be changed in a body, a man can truly change his thinking and With GODLY (INTELLECT) recieved by His Words , we can be washed and cleansed, replacing one kind of (spirit) intellect with another. “let this (MIND) be in you which was in Christ Jesus our Lord”. It is simply a Spirit (Intellect of GOD) that GOD can give us, called HOLY SPIRIT or HOLY INTELLECT same thing. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………gene
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 05 2009,04:40) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ Aug. 05 2009,01:26) Jesus is the way
Yes Jesus is the way, but don't forget Jesus does nothing of himself, he only does that which he sees the Father do.Jesus is the way because the One and Only True God the Father made him to be such for us.
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants–things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,
Jesus, the human being resurrected with flesh and bone that can no longer see corruption, still even after his resurrection needs the Father. Jesus cannot even make his own Revelation, he needs the Father to give it to him.
Jodi………You have it right, the deluded Trinitarians push the Father aside and replace him with Jesus, or “Holy Mary (Mother) of GOD”. Many even pray to Mary or Jesus instead of to the FATHER, The Catholic Church and Her daughters the Protestants have desecrated and profaned the name of OUR ONLY GOD. Something We, Jesus and the Apostles and disciples of Christ never did or do. IMOPeace and love to you and your Jodi………………..gene
Hi JN,
This is man's idea.
Does scripture teach that we need to do this?
He taught us to worship his Father God but do his teachings matter to you?JN………we need to worship who Jesus worshiped , because He (the Father) is the (ONLY) true GOD. Jesus is not a GOD, and while we are to honor him , but where do you see it says for us to worship Him, that would be Idolatry. IMO
peace and love………………gene
Hi JN,
He is the son of that God.
If you are truly his follower you should worship his God in spirit and truth.Jn………We are to follow Jesus He is the way, Just read and believe what he Said is all you have to do and do what he did. “Not all who come unto me and say lord lord, will enter into the Kingdom but he who (DOES THE WILL OF THE FATHER”). NOT WHERE DOES HE SAY DO (MY) WILL.
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 09 2009,02:54) Jn………We are to follow Jesus He is the way, Just read and believe what he Said is all you have to do and do what he did. “Not all who come unto me and say lord lord, will enter into the Kingdom but he who (DOES THE WILL OF THE FATHER”). NOT WHERE DOES HE SAY DO (MY) WILL.
Jesus' will was and still is the same will of the Father. That is why he gave us 2 commandments. Love your God with all your heart, mind, and soul. Then love your neighbors as you would love youself…Was that not Jesus' will? and yet…The father's?If you don't realize it by now, but the will of Jesus has always been the Will of the Father. He even states that HE CANNOT do his own will, meaning he is unable.
They share the same will, they are the same being.
You cannot believe Jesus was but a mere man, and yet praise him and receive him in your heart and believe that he died on the cross for your sins.
A man alone is not capable of Judging and forgiving Sins.
Jesus is able to do so because he was the appointed personifaction of the Father himself, that was given the right to rule and forgive sins in the identity of the God Son made flesh.
If you pray to Jesus, The Fath, or the Holy Spirit…you are praying to the same God. Regardless his manifestation or identity…he is still the same being. It is not idolatry.
What is Idolatry is to be a christian and not believe in Jesus' divinity…that makes him a man of sin because all are regarding a mere man as capable of forgiving sins.
And please do not forget Jesus' birth…a Man born of a virgin cannot be a mere man.
Also John the baptist was FILLED with the Holy Spirit…Just was Conceived of it. (Making him heir and a God/Man)
And Jesus always had the Spirit of the Father, He is the Word…and when he was baptised…received the Wisdom.
Amen.Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 12 2009,08:58) If you don't realize it by now, but the will of Jesus has always been the Will of the Father.
Not true. Jesus has his own will. At one time, it even appears that it might have been not in step with the Father's will. Please consider:Luke 22:42
“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”Love,
MandyRokkaMan…………..Why did Jesus say, the son of Man came (NOT) to do HIS WILL, (BUT) the Will of HIM who sent Him. If He's will and the one who sent hims Will was the SAME He would have never said that right. Again “it is written in the volume of books concerning me , I have come to DO THY WILL O GOD”, And when Jesus prayed Notice, what He said , (THY) Kingdom come (THY) WILL be done. Notice Jesus never said (MY WILL) be DONE. Come out of the false teachings of the Trinity , its teachings are a result of a spirit of delusion sent out from GOD on ALL who LOVE NOT the TRUTH> 2 Ths 2 For God shall sent unto them the spirit of delusion in order for them to believe a LIE< and that LIE is that JESUS is GOD HIMSELF. This Lie turns Jesus into the Man of SIN, which He will destory by his own mouth when he returns, as scripture shows. IMO
peace and love…………………gene
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 13 2009,04:09) RokkaMan…………..Why did Jesus say, the son of Man came (NOT) to do HIS WILL, (BUT) the Will of HIM who sent Him. If He's will and the one who sent hims Will was the SAME He would have never said that right. Again “it is written in the volume of books concerning me , I have come to DO THY WILL O GOD”, And when Jesus prayed Notice, what He said , (THY) Kingdom come (THY) WILL be done. Notice Jesus never said (MY WILL) be DONE. Come out of the false teachings of the Trinity , its teachings are a result of a spirit of delusion sent out from GOD on ALL who LOVE NOT the TRUTH> 2 Ths 2 For God shall sent unto them the spirit of delusion in order for them to believe a LIE< and that LIE is that JESUS is GOD HIMSELF. This Lie turns Jesus into the Man of SIN, which He will destory by his own mouth when he returns, as scripture shows. IMO peace and love…………………gene
Because when Jesus says I do not come by my own will, he is speaking as a Man.Is not the will of the Flesh seperate from the Spirit and Soul?
Does your spirit care if you eat? No, you're spirit and soul are impartial to food or rest or physical pleasure. It is your body that lusts for these things. As does your soul wills to interact with others, and your spirit seeks the Lord.
Jesus definately had his OWN will. but being divinely connected to the Father, he had no choice but to have the same desires.
To die on the cross and want his “cup to pass him” is Jesus as a man not wanting to see death. It was his human side talking.
But his spirit sharing the same will of the Father allowed him to walk into the shadow of death.
Did Jesus not also cry out on the cross “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?”
Yes quoting a Messianic prophesy in psalms…but I believe it was also emphasizing the burden of death.
Look people. I cannot agree Jesus is equal to the Father. I believe the father is the highest being period.
I do believe Jesus' spirit was cut from the same fabric of the father's essence.
So Jesus is equal to the father in essence, yet he is subject to the father in authority.
I believe, Jesus was literally spawned from the Father and was made flesh.
So when he cries out, My God, My God…he rightfully does so, because there is still someone who controls his fate as a being.
This does not excuse the fact that Jesus is capable of doing any and everything the father can…Because the father gave it all to him.
The fact Jesus has these abilities makes him a God compared to all of creation.
If that is true, Both the father and Jesus are seperate God's according to anti-trinitarians.
But I believe since Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the only beings to be cut from the Father's fabric essence…they are still of the Father…or God.
So when 1 John 5:7 tells me: There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit…and these 3 are one….
I believe it. And from that belief…it doesn't matter which I pray to, i'm praying to the same being…
And I dare not regard Jesus as greater or equal to the father entirely…only in essence.
Can you show me in scripture where “essence” is found to describe God, Jesus, or the Spirit?
Thanks,
MandyThat is like me asking you, if you can show me where it says Jesus was a Man turned into a God that we are to accept and worship.
You can't because your belief is an interpretation of many verses in the scripture.
As my interpretation is in the fact that…
When the Devil tried to tempt Jesus, Jesus' response was…”Thou Shall not tempt your God”
Why would he say that to the Devil if the Devil was tempting the Son, not the Father???
My interpretation comes from when. In the beginning was the Word, The word was with God, and the Word WAS God. And the Word was Made Flesh.
If the word was God, and that word/god was made flesh. Then it is my assumption that the flesh (Jesus) was God in Flesh.
When the Angel told Mary, he shall be called Immanuel “God With Us”
It makes me feel he is God.
When he says ” Truly I tell you, Before Abraham was born, I AM” And then the Jews picked up stones to stone him for he was claiming to be God.
Makes me think he is God.
When he is the ONLY MAN to exist on earth that never sinned. Makes me feel he's God.
For it was written, ALL HAVE FALLEN SHORT of the Glory of God.
If that was also applied to Jesus as a mere man who fell short, then his blood wouldn't suffice as the sacrifical lamb.
If he was not God, he would not have the power to forgive sins.
If he was not God, then he is not The Son…referred to in 1 John 5:7…There are three that bear witness in heaven, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit and these three are one.
That verse and many others make me believe that Jesus is God The Son.
The reason I cannot find the word essence is because essence is a modern day word that probably wasn't used in those times. Rather the word Spirit was used because God is a Spirit.
So when I say Jesus is God, I mean Jesus IS of the SAME spirit as the Father IS….the spirit.
Reason I believe that is because that is how Jesus was conceived. Did not the Father's Spirit fill the womb of Mary?
Yet Joseph already formed in the womb as filled with the spirit, not conceived of it.
This is why I believe Jesus' spirit is of the same essence of the Father's Spirit, therefore making him God.
It's the only logical modern day understanding I can think of to reconcile Jesus' divinity while abstaining from Idolatry.
Otherwise if Jesus is as great as christians revere him, and he's just a man and not God…then that very essence of belief is Idolatry in itself.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 13 2009,03:20) Can you show me in scripture where “essence” is found to describe God, Jesus, or the Spirit? Thanks,
Mandy
Hi MandyThe Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his “being“, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Heb 1:3
The Greek word for “being” is 'Strong's G5287 – hypostasis' which means;
2) that which has foundation, is firm
a) that which has actual existence
1) “a substance, real being“
b) “the substantial quality, nature, of a person or thing“
c) the steadfastness of mind, firmness, courage, resolution
1) confidence, firm trust, assurance
Basically the meaning is that which is the very foundation or substructure of what God is, or “Substance”.
The substructure of everything created consist of the atom.
God is not part of the creation therefore he is of a different substance or “Essence” than creation.
“substance definition“
the real or essential part or element of anything; “essence“, reality, or basic matter
the physical matter of which a thing consists; material
matter of a particular kind or chemical compositionJesus the Word that was with God and was God came in the flesh, and was tabernacled among us and we beheld his Glory as of the “only one” of the Father.
No other creature is the very essence or subsistance of what God is!
More information on the Greek word “hypostasis” is found here and here.
Blessings WJ
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