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Quote (dirtyknections @ June 27 2008,09:22) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 25 2008,03:13) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 25 2008,02:58) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 25 2008,02:43) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 24 2008,19:24) If Jesus couldn't have walked away from the cross………. his going to the cross was not a true sacrifice.
Just thinking out loud.
Mandy
John 3:16…THis was GOD's sacrifice…not Jesus
Yes, God was the giver of the sacrifice.Jesus was the sacrifice.
“For GOD loved the world”….Just like if someone kidnapped my child and wanted 100 grand as a ransom…
Whose sacrifice is it…the money or mine?
Lets compare…sin and death kidnapped mankind …and needed a ransom for mankinds return…GOD gave Jesus as a ransom sacrifice to get mankind back…so just like in my example before…I ask who's sacrifice is it really? ….
mine(GODs) or the money(Christ)
I am still waiting for someone to prove this invalid..if it makes sense in the example I gave..why can't it make sense when dealing with the ransom sacrifice….Remember saints..I am not saying Christ did not sacrifice..I am trying to show whose sacrifice it really was
I think your example is sad.DK, Jesus is a man. He is the beloved of God. He is not a “thing” or a “means” only. He is the lamb.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 27 2008,17:01) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 27 2008,09:22) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 25 2008,03:13) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 25 2008,02:58) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 25 2008,02:43) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 24 2008,19:24) If Jesus couldn't have walked away from the cross………. his going to the cross was not a true sacrifice.
Just thinking out loud.
Mandy
John 3:16…THis was GOD's sacrifice…not Jesus
Yes, God was the giver of the sacrifice.Jesus was the sacrifice.
“For GOD loved the world”….Just like if someone kidnapped my child and wanted 100 grand as a ransom…
Whose sacrifice is it…the money or mine?
Lets compare…sin and death kidnapped mankind …and needed a ransom for mankinds return…GOD gave Jesus as a ransom sacrifice to get mankind back…so just like in my example before…I ask who's sacrifice is it really? ….
mine(GODs) or the money(Christ)
I am still waiting for someone to prove this invalid..if it makes sense in the example I gave..why can't it make sense when dealing with the ransom sacrifice….Remember saints..I am not saying Christ did not sacrifice..I am trying to show whose sacrifice it really was
I think your example is sad.DK, Jesus is a man. He is the beloved of God. He is not a “thing” or a “means” only. He is the lamb.
Pray for meQuote (Not3in1 @ June 27 2008,17:04) 
Only if you promise to pray for me, too! No matter how much I agree to disagree with you…you always make me laugh
I get what you are saying tho…as I re-read my posts maybe I am being a little to impersonal with what Christ had to go thru…
With that being said I am going to turn on “the passion of the Christ”…grab some tissues and get reaquainted
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 27 2008,12:50) Hi GB,
You are right .
Jesus died for all that all may live.
Sadly for some they do not follow the instructions.No new hearts on view in the world yet.
Nick……..there are some who have had their hearts changed by God in this present world, all those who are chosen are given new hearts now, but the rest will latter. Those who are chosen now will be servants to the rest of man kind later, in the regeneration. With Jesus the Christ, our brother.God the Father will save all His creation, Yet as by Fire (intense judgment)
peace……………gene
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 27 2008,17:24) I get what you are saying tho…as I re-read my posts maybe I am being a little to impersonal with what Christ had to go thru… With that being said I am going to turn on “the passion of the Christ”…grab some tissues and get reaquainted
Oh, dude that is strong.Do you know that I bought the DVD when it came out but it's still in it's wrapper. I can't bring myself to watch it again.
In the theatre I was gasping for air as I cried. There really wasn't a dry eye in the house. I was almost convulsing from the sobbing. I just couldn't help it….. I don't know if I could ever bear to watch it again.
Brother, may our Father speak to you as you watch it. Come back and give us any insight that you may glean.
Quote (chosenone @ June 27 2008,16:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 27 2008,12:50) Hi GB,
You are right .
Jesus died for all that all may live.
Sadly for some they do not follow the instructions.No new hearts on view in the world yet.
1Cor.15:22-23. For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall ALL be vivified.Blessings.
Hi brother Jerry,
Good post and amen to that.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 27 2008,17:28) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 27 2008,12:50) Hi GB,
You are right .
Jesus died for all that all may live.
Sadly for some they do not follow the instructions.No new hearts on view in the world yet.
Nick……..there are some who have had their hearts changed by God in this present world, all those who are chosen are given new hearts now, but the rest will latter. Those who are chosen now will be servants to the rest of man kind later, in the regeneration. With Jesus the Christ, our brother.God the Father will save all His creation, Yet as by Fire (intense judgment)
peace……………gene
Hi GB,
The regeneration of all?
Is it written?
Where?Do you mean the lake of fire created for the devil and his angels? No life survives that. God can destroy both the body and soul of man there.[Mt10.28]
The “lake of fire” is the second death (Rev.20:14). Will not death be abolished? 1Cor.15:26-27 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
Blessings.
Hi CO,
Is the second death the first physical death?
Rev20
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Mt25
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:What VALUE was there in the sacrifice of Jesus, the Son of God?
Value: the worth of something in terms of the amount of other things for which it can be exchanged or in terms of some medium of exchange.
According to this definition of “value” it seems to me that while Jesus is the beloved Son of our Father……we are worth just as much as he! Man, allow that to sink in. Amazing. Praise the LORD!
Death is death, the absence of life. The second death is just that. After one have been vivified from the first death, it is posible to die again. Simple!
Blessings.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2008,21:32) Hi CO,
Is the second death the first physical death?
Rev20
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Mt25
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Nick.
Of course you still don't understand that Jesus' teaching was for the “Jews”. Nevertheless, the correct translation of Matt.25:41 is… 41 “Then shall He be declaring to those also at His left, 'Go from Me, you cursed, into the fire eonian, made ready for the Adversary and his messengers.
The word eonion never denotes endlessness.Blessings.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 29 2008,05:22) What VALUE was there in the sacrifice of Jesus, the Son of God? Value: the worth of something in terms of the amount of other things for which it can be exchanged or in terms of some medium of exchange.
According to this definition of “value” it seems to me that while Jesus is the beloved Son of our Father……we are worth just as much as he! Man, allow that to sink in. Amazing. Praise the LORD!
Thanks Not3As many have believed that mankind exists at many levels simultaneously the first death is the end of the physical body, the second death is the death of the casual or astral body. With the each death we get closer to the true seat of our individuality and not the temporary seat of the ego we mistakenly view as our entire selves.
Hi Cato,
I know you only believe this rebirth and reincarnation of souls in this forum. Bible says only in this life we have to know the Savior of souls to spend our eternity. There are only two births mentioned here; one is human birth and the second is the spiritual birth through resurrection.So when we have a human birth we don't have a Spirit? I think not. Resurrection of what our old earthly body, made perfect or near so I suppose. I can't buy that as it is illogical and inequitable. Eternity then rests upon a finite lifetime filled with circumstances beyond our control that skews salvation toward some and not others. The divine would not create such a flawed method. Life is fair if it's purposes are to learn and evolve, it is patently unfair if it is a discreet test of faith designed to separate the elect or saved from the rest.
Hi Cato,
I need not argue with you I know you must be thorough with Bible, we do have spirit on our human birth but when we die it goes back to the giver of spirits that is God the creator. I was talking about the second birth with celestial or spiritual bodies as mentioned in 1 Cor 15 through resurrection. We will be like angels as Jesus told that is we will be immortals and live forever. Our human logic of all this philosophy may not earn our salvation which has to deal with faith in the sacrifice of the Son of God, our savior Jesus.
Hope you will see the truth in the light of God's Spirit.
Thanks
AdamI copied this from a previous post I made in the General questions section.
Premise: Most Christians do not believe in or are silent on pre-existence of human souls. Souls come about at conception or sometime after this, but before actual birth. Then during it's life it is given an opportunity to know and believe in Jesus Christ as son of God, and based on this belief and perhaps a lesser extent, the acts of faith it performs because of this knowledge, then goes on upon it's death to be blessed with eternal life when its body is ressurected, or faces eternal damnation (or destruction based on your interpretation of scripture). Now there are various nuances on this with Catholics hedging their bets with purgatory and limbo and many evangelicals pushing for a tighter interpretation that we must be “born again” to achieve this salvation.My reaction to this is that not only is it illogical, it denies the laws of the universe, is filled with basic inequalities, and makes little sense if the creator is a God of love.
First, it to me, violates law, laws that God created and set in motion. Nothing in the universe goes from infinite to finite or from finite to infinite. How then can one finite existence then lead to an infinite, eternal, reward or punishment?
Second, if the stakes are so incredibly high for our one life, then God certainly loves some of us much more then others. One is born to loving Christian parents who teach them, love and nurture them, and surround them with others who believe likewise and encourage and help them stay on path. Another is born in a devout Muslim family and lives the same, but for his faith. Another is born unto a child soldier in Africa, is taught to kill from an early age and in turn is killed as a young man. While all may have an opportunity for salvation, don't try and tell me the chances are the same. Why would the odds be so stacked against some. If we are all loved and we all have just one life then it is clearly unfair.
Third, if a loving God created us and loved us would he throw us into a life that in essence becomes a test that ultimately condemns the vast majority of souls? Knowing that God is omniscient would he create a system that would lead to this? I feel that God blessed us with the capacity to be parents so we could understand at some basic level what God feels about us. Can any of us who are parents comtemplate eternally destroying or damning our own children. Punish them when unruly sure, but to punish or destroy them eternally, I don't think so. If that is human love just think how much greater is divine love.
Why would God create us in the first place? To set up a litmus test of faith to separate good and bad, weak and strong? Or perhaps he wanted children he could see grow and mature and learn to love him and each other, knowing that these children are individuals with varying strengths and weaknesses who will mature at different rates. Do we hold a 5 year old to the same standards as an older child or an adult? I can't help but think that an omnipotent loving God who would bother creating mankind would have a better system for dispensing of our souls then what most of us were taught in common Christian theology.
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