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Perhaps there is God and only God everywhere. God is spirit and God is life. God is truth and cannot lie. God is light and in him is no darkness at all. So, the spirit of God is the truth/word of God and has no darkness and is cleansed of any impurity. Therefore an un-clean spirit could only be an incorrect, error/sin belief apart from the truth. It is a lie. It is not of the truth.Our minds are full of truth and untruth. Life and death are set before us, WE ARE TO CHOOSE. A devil is an unclean doctrine/lie that is not in alignment with the truth of God. When man chose to believe in evil originally he split his true God into good and the illusion of evil! Truth and Illusion! Since then he began to create his own illusions of false truth. The war of Truth of God against lies against God has been since then. The unclean spirits/lies/doctrines against the Truth of God have been created by mankind. These thoughts/doctrines are errors of destruction, degradation, unworthyness, sinfulness, and all forms of evil that we have believed. These must be returned to the love that they were by the same mankind that created them. Any doctrine/thought that destroys or breaks down life is of death and is unclean. Any words/doctrines that man will use to build up, create love, kindness, happiness, joy etc.,in his fellow man, will return us to the perfection we came from. This is a truth war we are fighting. Not against flesh and blood brothers and sisters, this is a fight for Gods truth. Enlightenment will eliminate darkness. When light comes/manifest darkness leaves. Light always overcomes dark. Just some food for thought, bless all, TK
TO All………Scripture say when a unclean spirit leave a person, (IT) or (HE), pending on you view of What a SPIRIT (IS), goes around in (ARID) or DRY PLACES, Looking for some place to reside (REST) But it or he can return back into the Person it came our of and take more Unclean Spirits (intellects) with it.
If we look at this (LOGICALLY) we can understand what it means, First Spirit rather clean or unclean is Just that (SPIRIT) and spirit (IS) what guides our thinking, it (IS) the Intellect residing in our minds, OUR bodies are a House for spirits rather good or evil, these spirits effect and control our actions they reside (IN) our Minds. God who (IS) Spirit reckons our Bodies as temples where he, can also dwell and cohabit with us using our bodies, as in the case of Jesus and all who have His SPIRIT in them. Spirit is what animates us it is the life within us and produces the fruits of itself in our lives, Spirit operates though us, and the us is our minds and controls our works we do through our bodies, rather clean or unclean Spirit is Just Spirit or (INTELLECT) it illuminates our minds it is Life it self. IMO
peace and love to you all………………gene
I have looked at Matthew 12:43-35 and it is plausible that Jesus was personalizing a spirit rather than speaking of demons but I am doubtful that is the case as multiple spirits come to inhabit the individual at the end.
I have also looked at Hosea 4:10-12 as it mentions individuals with the spirit of whoredom chasing after idols. That does not sound like demon possession. Hosea 5:3-4 is pretty much the same.
There is a link between the two types of spirits as the demons cast the lure but the unclean spirit of a person is what leads one to bite the bait.
Hi KW,
The UNCLEAN spirit of men is not scriptural.
man is a vessel and his spirit returns to a Holy God at death[ecc12]Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 12 2010,03:26) Hi KW,
The UNCLEAN spirit of men is not scriptural.
man is a vessel and his spirit returns to a Holy God at death[ecc12]
So according to you a spirit of whoredom is not an unclean spirit?Hi TK,
Darkness rules in unclean men and they prefer it to light.
Jesus offers cleansing and forgiveness in his blood.
You must be born again of water and the SpiritKerwin……….Clean or unclean (intellects) or thinking are the spirits that can reside in our minds and produce there effects in our lives , Man as a body (only) has (NO) Spirit or intellect (IN) Him it must be added into him or her after gestation and berth berth. As a Child grows he receives these spirits (intellects) rather clean or unclean into him and begins to act on them . Spirit is Simply (INTELLECT) and it can be changed or altered or removed or instilled in anyone at any time God so choses. He can cleans us by the washing of His (words) which are spirit Intellects, and change our very natures if he likes. All Spirit (intellect) comes from (ONE) Source and has ONE ORIGIN and that is GOD.
Isa 1:18………Come now, and lets us (REASON) together, saith the LORD: though yours sins be as scarlet, they shall be as whites as snow; though the be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
God is able to clean us all, and remember GOD works (IN) us (BOTH) TO (WILL) and DO of HIS GOOD PLEASURE. GOD is the ONLY true Source of SALVATION He was even the source of the salvation of Jesus Christ our brother.
Jesus does not offer us anything , it is GOD the Father who offers salvation through the blood of (HIS) Christ. Which HE (GOD) Shed on the stake. Jesus gave himself to the FATHER and the FATHER offered HIM up as a Sacrifice for our sins. Jesus was GOD'S Lamb, a sacrifice for our sins. Making Jesus the object of our salvation is a sin, it is replacing GOD the FATHER who is the (ONLY) SAVIOR, of Jesus and Us both. Remember it says ” FOR (GOD) SO LOVED THE WORLD (HE) GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, THAT WHO SO EVER BELIEVES O HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH. It is Clear from that statement that GOD the FATHER is the (ONLY) SOURCE of SALVATION. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Hi JA,
You speak of the ENCUMBERED spirit of man in another thread.
Is this spoken of in scripture ?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 13 2010,01:26) Kerwin……….Clean or unclean (intellects) or thinking are the spirits that can reside in our minds and produce there effects in our lives , Man as a body (only) has (NO) Spirit or intellect (IN) Him it must be added into him or her after gestation and berth berth. As a Child grows he receives these spirits (intellects) rather clean or unclean into him and begins to act on them . Spirit is Simply (INTELLECT) and it can be changed or altered or removed or instilled in anyone at any time God so choses. He can cleans us by the washing of His (words) which are spirit Intellects, and change our very natures if he likes. All Spirit (intellect) comes from (ONE) Source and has ONE ORIGIN and that is GOD. Isa 1:18………Come now, and lets us (REASON) together, saith the LORD: though yours sins be as scarlet, they shall be as whites as snow; though the be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
God is able to clean us all, and remember GOD works (IN) us (BOTH) TO (WILL) and DO of HIS GOOD PLEASURE. GOD is the ONLY true Source of SALVATION He was even the source of the salvation of Jesus Christ our brother.
Jesus does not offer us anything , it is GOD the Father who offers salvation through the blood of (HIS) Christ. Which HE (GOD) Shed on the stake. Jesus gave himself to the FATHER and the FATHER offered HIM up as a Sacrifice for our sins. Jesus was GOD'S Lamb, a sacrifice for our sins. Making Jesus the object of our salvation is a sin, it is replacing GOD the FATHER who is the (ONLY) SAVIOR, of Jesus and Us both. Remember it says ” FOR (GOD) SO LOVED THE WORLD (HE) GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, THAT WHO SO EVER BELIEVES O HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH. It is Clear from that statement that GOD the FATHER is the (ONLY) SOURCE of SALVATION. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Gene: What an excellent post! For me, in this area you are right on target. God Bless you, TKNick,
Not as such. What I mean is that the spirit of man is not active outside of the person it is desugnated to. Even Jesus' spirit was 'dormant' while he was un the grave.
But God's Spirit is different in that it is active outside if God and can be given to others…occupy other bodies and many at the same time.Encumbered…don't like it? Suggest another word, 'captured', 'contained', held'?
Hi JA,
The human spirit of Jesus left him at calvary[mt27 50 etc]
The spirit of man returns to God[ecc12]Alive in the Spirit of God he visited those in prison[1Peter3] before being raised in 3 days to the flesh.
Yes God 's Spirit is shared by him with Christ, the prophets[1peter1] and those in Christ.Gene,
I know the issue is confusing because the word “spirit” is used with two separate though similar meanings.
Demons are the outside forces that cause (see note) people to sin. The can also use one person to tempt another. Two examples of this is a “friend” who offers and alcoholic a drink of liquor and a predator out to get his date drunk to have sex with her. In both cases the tempter is the original causation even though the tempted can put the chain of cause and effect to a end by simply refusing the temptation.
This is where the second definition of “spirit” enters the picture as it is the spirit of the person that decides whether or not to put the chain of cause and effect to an end. The date with a pure spirit would refuse to get drunk and the alcoholic with a pure spirit would say rebuff their “friends” offer. On the other hand one with an corrupt spirit fall to the temptation. In this way their or put another way they would be tested.
I am not getting where you get the idea spirit is intellect though the mind can certainly be influenced by the spirit.
Quote (kerwin @ June 14 2010,05:21) Gene, I know the issue is confusing because the word “spirit” is used with two separate though similar meanings.
Demons are the outside forces that cause (see note) people to sin. The can also use one person to tempt another. Two examples of this is a “friend” who offers and alcoholic a drink of liquor and a predator out to get his date drunk to have sex with her. In both cases the tempter is the original causation even though the tempted can put the chain of cause and effect to a end by simply refusing the temptation.
This is where the second definition of “spirit” enters the picture as it is the spirit of the person that decides whether or not to put the chain of cause and effect to an end. The date with a pure spirit would refuse to get drunk and the alcoholic with a pure spirit would say rebuff their “friends” offer. On the other hand one with an corrupt spirit fall to the temptation. In this way their or put another way they would be tested.
I am not getting where you get the idea spirit is intellect though the mind can certainly be influenced by the spirit.
Kerwin………I don't think it is an outside force causing us to sin , i believe it is Our own selves causing us to sin. The serpent natural is the man himself trying to carry out his own desires. John said ” All that is in the world , the lust of the eyes and the lust of the flesh and the pride of life are from the World, Not some hidden demon of some kind. James say we are lead away into sin by our own temptations , we must be responsible for our own action , It would be unjust of God to judge Us because of some unknown outside force causing us to sin, we are all held responsible for our sins because we are the sinners. Thats the way is see it Kerwin. some think devils and demons are going around jumping into people taking them over and causing them to sin, well if thats the case them we have an excuse to sin right? I believe it is our own LUSTS that cause us to sin. IMOpeace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Gene,
I see what your point is but you are misunderstanding what I am stating as you seem to be misunderstanding what I mean by cause. If I were to say Satan caused the Pharaoh to refuse to let the Hebrew people go it would not mean Satan was the one that chose to refuse to let the Hebrew people go but rather that he introduced the temptation, advice, to hold the Hebrew people. Without that initial cause the Pharaoh would have never considered the possibility of holding the Hebrew people against their will. God does not hold us responsible for that cause because even Jesus was tempted by evil even as we are and yet he is held to be without sin.
Kerwin…….Remember in scripture where it say “FOR THESE LOVED NOT THEIR LIVES UNTO DEATH” These are the one before the throne of GOD and it was (THEIR) Lives that did not love. You Analogy of Pharaoh is not right because it was GOD who said HE Hardened His Heart so he would not let the people go. Again I am not saying or denying that EVIL forces exist, they just are not (BEINGS) going around taking over people at will as some believe, But GOD can certainly send Evil Spirit on some one as Has at times, IE , King Saul. God can also remove it as well as send it on His creation at His will. As in the case of the Millennium reign of Christ Jesus and the Saints. When he vanquishes it from the earth for a time. Evil is not a (BEING) it is a (Spirit) intellect in a Being> IMO
Gene,
I want to familiarize you with my reasoning. I am using Satan's temptation of Jesus as a type that of Satan's role of the tempter in action. I then put Satan in the situation when I know someone was tempted to do evil, i.e. the Pharaoh.
Now you wonder how I interpreted Scripture declaring that God hardened the Pharaoh's heart to Satan tempted the Pharaoh. Except for the fact that it is self evident since one must first be tempted before committing a sin we can look at what Job declared to his wife when God gave Satan permission to test him. Job attributed the testing to God even though Satan was the tester because God was in authority. So I will agree with you that God has authority over the Devil and that the evil one cannot tempt anyone unless God gives him permission to do so just like the Pharaoh could not have chosen to sin without God's permission to make a choice.
I am using a second type from scripture as well and this one is based on Satan's testing of Job and how he approached God for permission to do so.
Quote (kerwin @ June 16 2010,09:44) Gene, I want to familiarize you with my reasoning. I am using Satan's temptation of Jesus as a type that of Satan's role of the tempter in action. I then put Satan in the situation when I know someone was tempted to do evil, i.e. the Pharaoh.
Now you wonder how I interpreted Scripture declaring that God hardened the Pharaoh's heart to Satan tempted the Pharaoh. Except for the fact that it is self evident since one must first be tempted before committing a sin we can look at what Job declared to his wife when God gave Satan permission to test him. Job attributed the testing to God even though Satan was the tester because God was in authority. So I will agree with you that God has authority over the Devil and that the evil one cannot tempt anyone unless God gives him permission to do so just like the Pharaoh could not have chosen to sin without God's permission to make a choice.
I am using a second type from scripture as well and this one is based on Satan's testing of Job and how he approached God for permission to do so.
KWGod Harding of pharaoh ,was not the same as Job, pharaoh was not a righteous person he was full of ego,and the scriptures say that God do not communicate with them,
as for temptation;Jas 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
Jas 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Jas 1:16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers.if you compare Jesus answers were Swift and direct without a doubt he did not let the idea of wickedness to mature not even let it start to make roots in his mind.
Pierre
Pierre,
God is all knowing and so Satan cannot do anything without God being aware of it. God is also all powerful so he can prevent Satan from doing any action. In the case of Job God shielded Job and so prevented Satan from oppressing him and Satan came forward to get permission to beset Job with troubles. In that case Satan who is the accuser was leveling his accusations at Job and so hoping Job would fail and God used Satan’s ill will to test Job’s heart hoping he would succeed. We know that these are God’s motives because God is all righteous.
In the case of Jesus Satan once more obtained permission to tempt Jesus from God even though we are not told he did that in scripture we know it without being told. We know it because we know that God is all knowing and all powerful. Like with Job the motives of God and Satan were different in that God wanted Jesus to overcome the temptation and therefore not sin while Satan wanted Jesus to sin. So God did not tempt Jesus with evil but rather tested his heart by allowing Satan to test him with evil and Jesus triumphed with flying colors.
In the case of Pharaoh we know he was also tempted because he sinned and one is always tempted prior to sinning for how does one sin if not enticed to sin. When God chose to allow the Evil One to tempt the Pharaoh God was fully aware beforehand that the Pharaoh would freely choose to do evil but even know that God tested his heart. I assure you that God was not responsible for the Pharaoh’s action but merely used that action to further his plan. I know God was not responsible because God does not do evil and the Pharaoh’s action in refusing to release the Hebrews was evil.
These are three examples of a similar type with the major difference being that the Pharaoh chose to do evil while Job and Jesus chose to do right. These are examples for us to learn from that we do as Job and Jesus did and not as the Pharaoh chose to do.
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