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Hi Proclaimer,
You: Still waiting Carmel.
Are you looking for a scripture?
Good luck.
Me: First and foremost,
I ASK THE SAME QUESTION AGAIN FOR THE THIRD TIME, PROCLAIMER, and still EXPECTING your answer, read, please.
IS YOUR SPIRIT YOU?
IS YOUR SOUL YOU?
IS YOUR FLESH BODY YOU?
Now, regarding this post, the headache is not to find the No. ONE scripture for the trinity, since the entire scripture is throughout a TRIUNE process.
In fact, I am going to produce a particular event that manifests
A TRIPLE TRINITY!
One attributed to THE TRIUNE GOD! THE FATHER, SON, HOLY GHOST.
One to THE TRIUNE SON OF GOD! THE HOLY GHOST, and
One to THE TRIUNE SON OF MAN! “THE WORD”
Read hereunder and ponder as much as you are able to in order to perceive, what I believe is up to now, a unique proof of this TRIPLE trinity
COMBINED AS ONE IN THIS EVENT, WHICH DEPICTS THE PROCESS OF THE ENTIRE CREATION IN
THE SPIRIT, SOUL, AND FLESH.
BY WHICH PROCESS GOD, AS THE SPIRIT, BECAME ALSO GOD AS THE SOUL, IN THE HOLY GHOST, AND GOD AS THE FLESH IN “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, UNITED AS ONE WITH HUMANITY IN
JESUS CHRIST, THE KINGDOM OF THE SON/GOD. Well asserted in
1 John 5:7 And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three ARE ONE.
Also well clear in:
John17:20 And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me; 21That they all may BE ONE, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be ONE IN US; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou hast given me, I HAVE GIVEN THEM; that they MAY BE ONE, as we also ARE ONE: 23I IN THEM, and THOU IN ME; that they may be made PERFECT IN ONE: and the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me. 24Father, I will that where I am, they also whom thou hast given me MAY BE WITH ME; that they may see MY GLORY which thou hast given ME, because thou hast loved me before the creation of the world.
Allow me please, to make clear, especially to Gene, that THE FATHER IS NEVER IN THE POSITION TO HAVE THE LEAST DIRECT CONTACT WITH HIS CREATURES NOT EVEN WITH THE HEAVENLY REALMS, AS GOD IS TOO POWERFUL. JESUS, AS “THE WORD” IS THE ONLY SPIRIT MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND HIS CREATURES, THIS IS THE GUARANTEE OF THE FREE WILL GIVEN TO ALL CREATURES. GOD WOULD DESTROY INSTANTLY BY THE LEAST INTENTION OF SIN BY CREATURES AS HE, IN A MODE TO SAY, IS ALLERGIC TO SIN. NOW JESUS’ UNIQUE TASK IS PINPOINTED OUT ABOVE IN HIS OWN WORDS WHEN HE SAID:
22 And the glory which thou hast given me,
I HAVE GIVEN THEM;
that they MAY BE ONE, as we also ARE ONE:
Fine? JESUS IS THE ONLY UNIQUE ONE TO HAVE A GENERAL DIRECT CONTACT WITH THE FATHER, HE IS THE SAME SUBSTANCE OF THE FATHER, AND ONLY HE GIVES TO ALL CREATURES ALL THE ATTRIBUTES AND CHARACTERISTICS OF GOD! Confirmed hereunder:
John15:5 I am the vine; you the branches: he that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit:
for without me you can do nothing.
Jesus also made certain of this when He said that all creatures would be DIRECTLY WITH HIM and experience THE GLORY OF THE SON, Jesus, not the DIRECT glory of the Father,
THAT IS ONLY THE PRIVILEGE OF THE SON,
HE DIED BOTH FOR THE LOVE OF THE FATHER AND FOR THE LOVE OF ALL CREATURES THE FACT THAT
IT IS THE KINGDOM OF THE SON. Read please:
Father, I will that where I AM, they also whom thou hast given me
MAY BE WITH ME;
that they may see MY GLORY which thou HAST given ME. Present perfect tense!
OBVIOUS BEFORE ALL!
Colossians 1:17 And he is before all, and by him all things consist.
JESUS PRE-EXISTED ETERNALLY AS ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE FATHER.
Now the uniqueness of Jesus is also well-asserted in
Colossians 1:19 Because IN HIM, it hath well pleased the Father,
THAT ALL FULLNESS SHOULD DWELL;
ALL IN HIM, JESUS CHRIST.
Now to the event of the triple trinity
Matthew 17:11AND after six days Jesus taketh unto him Peter and James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart: 2 And he was transfigured before them. And his face did shine as the sun: and his garments became white as snow. 3 And behold there appeared to them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4 And Peter answering, said to Jesus: Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5 And as he was yet speaking, behold a bright cloud overshadowed them. And lo, a voice out of the cloud, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased: hear ye him. 6 And the disciples hearing, fell upon their face, and were very much afraid.
Enjoy Proclaimer, and in this case also Gene.
It would be very interesting if you were to have a go and reveal this yourself.
I AM WAITING!
GOOD LUCK!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
@ Carmel,
I realize I am joining this discussion late; however, the topic of the “trinity” has been one that has troubled me recently.
So I must begin by asking: do you believe our salvation is dependent upon believing the trinity?
DesireTruth
DesireTruth
@ Carmel,
I realize I am joining this discussion late; however, the topic of the “trinity” has been one that has troubled me recently.
So I must begin by asking: do you believe our salvation is dependent upon believing the trinity?
No Not really! Read hereunder please.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son;
that whosoever believeth in him,
may not perish, but may have life everlasting. 17For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him.
18He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe,
is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him, may not perish; but may have life everlasting.
John 3:36 He that believeth in the Son, hath life everlasting; but he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Thank you for your response. The “not really” however confuses me. So in some aspect it does matter whether we believe in the trinity concerning our salvation?
Gidday and welcome.
Belief in the trinity is not essential for salvation. It is written nowhere in scripture. Salvation is simply living for God. Doing what he wants and declaring your faith.
The core message of the New Testament is that God sent his son into the world. Believe upon him and listen to him.
The Trinity Doctrine developed many centuries later as men debated the nature of Jesus. No such doctrine was taught by the disciples. They believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ.
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Notice that there is one true God AND the one whom he sent which is Jesus Christ. Knowing God and his Son is eternal life.
Thank you for the welcome. The trinity has been a contention for me starting about 6 months ago. Prior to that I never questioned it. The question I asked Carmel about the salvation aspect was because this was something taught and believed in a “church” I attended and has prompted me to question the truthfulness of the trinity doctrine. All I was really looking for from him was a simple “yes” or “no” as he is an ardent support for the trinity. Unfortunately what was said was “not really”, which gives the impression (intentional or not) that the belief in the trinity is somehow required for salvation.
I know my salvation is NOT dependent on believing the trinity, as nowhere in scripture is that requirement ever stated; so when I was told this at that “church”, my spirit was unsettled and sent me on a path of discovery. What was revealed to me was nothing but doctrine shattering. If we approach the study of scripture with the understanding that it was written by Jews, to Jews, and for Jews; we now have to study it thru the eyes of a Jew. The only way we can do that is by studying the “Old Testament” or Tanach. We also must remember, there wasn’t a “New Testament” when Yeshua taught, he taught from the Tanach “Old”. So when people “debate” this trinity topic, the only verses ever sited are those from the “New Testament”.
This has caused me to question every doctrine held within the “church” today: from the trinity, to the rapture, to once saved always saved, to Yeshua is “God”, to who is the Word. Not sure if finding this site was a God send or not as I have just started reading what has been posted. Time will tell… 🙂
DesireTruth
Great to see you searching this out as that is how we discover truth. Truth is discovered and harder to come by than we think. We often think truth is just taught to us as tradition.
Have you read this on the Trinity? It is enlightening as to what the scriptures really say.
In my experience, adherents to the Trinity Doctrine preach believing it for salvation. Yet when you challenge their doctrine and salvation according to them, they cannot support their views with scripture. It reminds me of this scripture:
Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.
Hi to all
Here is an article gleaned from Facebook
May God bless its author and you too readers. Amen!An Attempt to Cover Up History.
Those who understand how the Papal Church came to rule for 1260 years known as the dark ages also know they had to uproot three opposing kingdoms. But were you aware that these were Arian tribes? We know Athanasius taught the unbiblical pagan view, and that the Catholic Church is known for casting truth to the ground. So it certainly makes sense that these Arians must have actually had Biblical truth and would explain why these Arian tribes were all destroyed.Daniel 8:12 – “Because of transgression, an army was given over to the HORN to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he CAST TRUTH DOWN TO THE GROUND. He did all this and prospered.”The HORN here is synonymous with the little horn of Daniel 7 and the first beast of Revelation 13, which is the Roman Catholic Church who have always taught error and cast truth to the ground. And so it was obviously truth that was cast to the ground when the Papacy uprooted the three opposing kingdoms, which gave them uninterrupted rule for 1260 years. These kingdoms were Arian tribes, which held the non-Trinitarian view and opposed their Trinitarian view.
“The three divisions which were plucked up were the Heruli in 493, the Vandals in 534, and the Ostrogoths in 538 A.D. Justinian, the
emperor, whose seat was at Constantinople, working through the general Belisarius, was the power which overthrew the three
kingdoms represented by the three horns, and THE REASON FOR THEIR OVERTHROW WAS THEIR ADHERENCE TO ARIANISM IN
OPPOSITION TO THE ORTHODOX CATHOLIC FAITH. The details of the overthrow, and the religious controversy which was the root of
the trouble, are fully given by Gibbon in the “Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire,” — S.N. Haskell, The Story of Daniel the Prophet, p.
117, 1908And further, “The contest between ARIANISM and the orthodox CATHOLICISM was the means of ENTHRONING THE PAPACY.” —(lbid, p. 266)Ever since the inception of the Trinity doctrine into Christianity in the
4th century, in one way or another, Trinitarians have consistently persecuted those who did not hold to the doctrine of the Trinity. They
generally regarded them as heretics. The record of Christian history shows this, and it is still happening today! Now what spirit is behind persecution?I have seen non-Trinitarians falsely accused of teaching that Christ was created as a means to discredit them. When the accusers were
corrected, they still continued with their false accusations even though they knew it was not true. This of course is dishonest and can
only be a deliberate attempt at discrediting non-Trinitarians. Did this same thing happen to Arius? Were rumors started to say that he
taught Christ was created? Yes. And it was just a means of discrediting him to help the pagan doctrine of the Trinity take hold?
“’His [Arius’] book, ‘Thalia,’ was burnt on the spot; and this example was so generally followed, that it became a very rare work.’ —
Stanley ‘History of the Eastern Church,’ Lecture iv, par. 39. The decree banishing Arius was shortly so modified as simply to prohibit
his returning to Alexandria.” — A.T. Jones, The Two Republics, p. 351The Catholic Church exerted all her power to destroy any records of what Arius believed. The only records we have are those that either fell through the hands of the Catholic power, or those which they have chosen to keep, whether in their original form or altered by them.
“An erroneous charge was circulated that all who were called Arians believed that Christ was a created being. [Footnote: It is doubtful if many believed Christ to be a created being. Generally, those evangelical bodies who opposed the papacy and who were branded
as Arians confessed both the divinity of Christ and that He was begotten, not created, by the Father. They recoiled from other
extreme deductions and speculations concerning the Godhead.]” —Benjamin G. Wilkinson, Truth Triumphant, p. 92
“Whether the teachings of Arius were such as are usually represented to us or not, who can say? Phillipus Limborch doubts
that Arius himself ever held that Christ was created instead of being begotten [Footnote: Limborch, The History of the Inquisition, page
95].” — Benjamin G. Wilkinson, Truth Triumphant, p. 142In 538 A.D, the Arian believers were completely wiped out by the Catholic Church, leaving the Papacy as the sole “Corrector of heretics.” Anyone opposing the Catholic teaching of the Trinity was exterminated, for “the Mystery of the Trinity is the central doctrine of the Catholic Faith.” — Handbook for Today’s Catholic, p. 11
So how was the Trinity doctrine finally established? Was it through careful study of the Scriptures by all parties to establish what was truth? No! It happened through decades of persecution and bloodshed and by the Papal Church murdering the three Arian tribes that opposed them! The Trinitarian view was won by taking out the opposition.KEYS BIBLE TEXTS
Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
[24] And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.(Dan.7:23,24)Understanding God is crucial. Knowing God and His Messiah, Jesus, leads to eternal life. Here are five scriptural justifications for refusing to accept the doctrine of the Trinity.
Not a single flat earther on the globe can explain why stars appear to rotate counterclockwise in North America, but clockwise in Australia
And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
Heb 11.6
What hope do trinity believers have?
Jesus was sent to the Jewish people and he explained the Law to them.
However he offered the kingdom to the rich young man who wanted more.
Sadly he was too enamoured with his money.
Hi PC,
lk 18.20… COME
First Jesus counselled him to obey the Law
”You know the commandments
DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY
DO NOT MURDER
DO NOT STEAL
DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS
HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER
And he said “All these things I have kept from my youth
When Jesus heard this…COME FOLLOW ME”
Following Jesus leads to the opportunity to be reborn of water and the Spirit which was opened to all at his death and spoken of by Peter at Pentecost.
Yes
in Mt 19 Jesus did say
” if you would be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor…and come follow me”
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