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DavidL
Martin Luther is reported to say:
“Reason is so blind that it can neither perceive nor understand the things of God, nor all things which properly belong to its own sphere, This is a blow to nature and human reason, which have been rated so high by philosophy and the wise men of this world.”
It is written about Paul:
Acts 17:2Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
2 and Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
As for me, Paul’s actions trump Martin Luther’s words.
Hi KW,
Yes God used the language of men to draw carnal men.
Then the language of the Spirit takes over.
Hi KW,
Paul reasoned with the carnal that they might come to Jesus Christ and enter the gate of salvation.
He met them in their playground.
Nick,
Hi KW,
Paul reasoned with the carnal that they might come to Jesus Christ and enter the gate of salvation.
He met them in their playground.
Carnal means sinful as in godless flesh of godless human beings.
As you put it sin in the flesh.
“It is a heavenly mystery which the world cannot understand”
And there it is.
Yes it is not written and yes it is a mystery that you cannot test.
This is the final argument for the Trinity when all else fails and this hypothesis has no basis in scripture whatsoever.
DavidL, did it ever cross your mind that the reformation was never suppose to end, that all would be tested to see if it is so.
Some of the reformers did great work in reinstating some truths that had pretty much been lost. But they did not restore all truth and perhaps that was for other generations to discover. Did you know that Jesus is coming back for a bride without spot and blemish and for the fact that he has not returned, should tell you something.
Sadly, the reformation ended and merely created sisters of the harlot church who repeated many of the same mistakes.
Why persecute reformation in this time? If you do that, then you likely would have done the same in Luther’s time.
Luther and the other reformers rightly challenged the Catholic Church that sold indulgences and offered works-based salvation.
But one good deed does not mean other deeds are good. Test everything DavidL, do not be lazy.
Luther also wrote this:
If the raging madness (of the Roman churchmen) were to continue, it seems to me no better counsel and remedy could be found against it than that kings and princes apply force, arm themselves, attack those evil people who have poisoned the entire world, and put an end to this game once and for all, with arms, not with words. Since we punish thieves with the halter, murderers with the sword, and heretics with the fire, why do we not turn on all those evil teachers of perdition, those popes, cardinals and bishops, and the entire swarm of the Roman Sodom with arms in hand, and wash our hands in their blood
Of course, if we took his words literally, then we would be fighting against flesh and blood, and who could condemn him for writing such as such were the sins of the Papal Church. But taking things into our own hands is not the way of God. The fight is a spiritual one. If we fought against this evil with our hands, then surely what would have replaced the Roman Church would not be that much better than its predecessor. And so it was that some took this reformation as the spark to fight against the oppressors with carnal weapons.
Test all things DavidL. You will find that wholly subscribing to men will lead you astray. But if you test all things, they will fit together with the most perfect harmony.
Also, have you noticed that our proof is scripture while yours is primarily from men who lived many years after scripture was written.
Nick,
Romans 7:14 either defines it as being sold under sin or is the result of being sold under sin. He is claiming that before Jesus Christ set him free he lived by the flesh because he was sold under sin though part of him deeply desired to be free.
You used it differently that in any case I know of Scripture using it.
Much of what Luther said in this text is true. But the Trinity definitely is not. He did err when it came to the Trinity.
DAVID……Seening you seem to lik historyconcerning the trinity, there is a book,i would like youto read a true historical one on a man named MICHAEL SERVETUS, WHO WROTE ABOUT THE TRINITY AT AROUND THE TIME OF JOHN CALVIN, HIS ARTICAL WAS ENTITLED, “THE ERRORS OF THE TRINITY”. HE WAS BURNED ALIVE BY THE ORDERS OF JOHN CALVIN. THE BOOK IS INTITLED “OUT OF THE FLAMES,
The trinity is a deliberate teachingby SATAN HIMSELF WHO USES IT TO “SEPERATE”, JUSUS IDENITY FROM THEREST OF HUMANITY , he does not want us to come to undrstand the great potential all humanity has,so he moves Jesus idenity away from us by the doctrine of the trinity. He full well knows if we see our own destiny in THE MAN JESUS, we would all be encouraged to follow him. What JESUS IS IS EXACTLY WHT GOD THE FATHER HAS IN MIND FOR US ALL. Heb 2:6-11
peace and love to you and yours. ………………gene
Nick,
In Romans 7:14 it means “sinful” or “a sinner” and the meaning of the passage does not change.
Carnal is a adjective form of flesh in Koine Greek but we get the word flesh from non-Greek(Germanic) roots and Carnal comes from the Greek language.
In general it is used to mean a self without the Spirit.
1 Corinthians 3:3Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
The same meaning here.
Romans 8:7Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Nick,
I have found that sounds like how you used it and that is 1 Corinthians 9:11.
If I am correct then words themselves would be called carnal.
I am not convinced as Jesus said his words are Spirit and so is Paul’s reasoning.
He was most likely speaking of the message his words conveyed and not the words themselves.
Even then I have doubts the meaning in 1 Corinthians 9:11 applies as you used it.
There is truth in what you say here Gene. Jesus calls us brothers but we are children of God.
Thus the Father is his God and our God and we are the sons of God.
But let’s not turn this topic into a debate on pre-existence going forward if you don’t mind. There are topics for that. Keep it on track as you are doing now. Cheers.
“We are forced to believe the Trinity when we believe ALL of the Bible and ONLY the Bible. The only way to NOT believe the Trinity is to reject certain aspects of Biblical revelation.”
“There is only one true God – anyone who says the Trinity in not monotheist, just simply is ignorant of the doctrine they’re addressing or denying..”
– Dr James White
Hi Davidl,
Yes you can either believe folks like this or Jesus.
Jesus Christ never mentioned any trinity.
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