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Spock,
I think the 3 Magi came from either Babylon, Persia or that area. The Jews there were more into astrology and knew the signs of the stars. The stars are fairly good at predicting some things such as the time for planting, harvesting, and so on despite the fact the field of astrology is now in disrepute. The Native Americans and others used it as well. Like most things it was overused but it served to interpret the stars in order to bear witness to the birth of the Messiah according to Joseph’s account as written in Matthew.
The event of the three Magi reveals a mystic element is the true faith at that time.
Spock.
I think the Trinitarian hearsay is the result if the Egyptian belief their kings are both a god and the Son of God. A manifestation in the flesh. It is aided by some passages of Scripture that can be interpreted to support it. The city of Alexandria probably at the least aided it to spread evolve to be the Trinitarian theory that is adhered to by so many.
PLease take note: The dragon did it all, the Assyrian. from the beginning.
Isaiah 10:8 For he saith, Are not my princes altogether kings?
Isaiah 10:9 Is not Calno as Carchemish? is not Hamath as Arpad? is not Samaria as Damascus?
Isaiah 10:10 As my hand hath found the kingdoms of the idols, and whose graven images did excel them of Jerusalem and of Samaria;
Isaiah 10:11 Shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols?wakeup.
Hearsay is a false legalistic construct created by the institutional church who also concocted the theory of scriptural inerrancy. Under such a stunting regime, any additional revelation will always be viewed as a threat to the old petrified worldview.
Jesus, who came down from heaven, was a miraculous person who lived a God revealing life, voluntarily laid down his human form and resurrected it again. He then returned to his rightful place in heaven only now with all power and authority in heaven and on earth as Lord and God of this world. These facts of Jesus’ life are only dimmed by the stubbornness of the old ways of thinking that developed among the Jews concerning an inelastic monotheism.
The Trinity ideas that developed within Christian theology did so in response to the facts of the life of Christ in addition to his teaching.
Spock,
Heresy is a teaching that is not in tune with the true gospel of Christ. You cannot receive the Spirit by adhering to heresy. If you desire to be righteous as God is righteous that you want the Spirit.
The trinity is based heavily on John’s words and shows ignorance of the type of Jews John was speaking to. There is also passages that are misinterpreted to support it because the ones who interpreted it were ignorant of the cultures of those the writing was addressed to. They were also ignorant of who God is and therefore who is Son is or they would not have come up with such a teaching even being ignorant of the cultures of who the writing were addressed to.
I know you are marked as a spammer and therefore banned from posting but perhaps you or another will read this and understand.
To all…….THE TRINITARIAN DOCTRINE, had it’s beginings by Satan himself, he used the GONSTIC’S to introduce it into the church, it was designed by him to make a “SEPARATION” between JESUS’ “Exact” idenity with us as a pure human being, to a GOD being, FOR A SPECIFIC PURPOSE, TO CAUSE PEOPLE NOT TO BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF GOD, THAT HE CAN PERFECT US, EXACTLY AS HE DID THE MAN JESUS. Satan moves JESUS AWAY FROM US, BY MAKING OUR IMAGE OF JESUS DIFFERENT FROM THE REST OF HUMANITY.
His stragity in causing this “SEPERATION”, was to first make people think Jesus was not a truely PURELY human being, but was a PREXISTING BEING, A “GOD”, of somekind, morphed into a human body, THIS THOUGHT MOVES THE MAN JESUS AWAY FROM OUR “EXACT” IDENITY WITH HIM ON A HUMAN LEVEL, It greately effects our belief in the power of God within human kind IN GENERAL.
SATAN USED the GREEK influenced GONSTIC’S, TO INTRODUCE THESE FALSE TEACHINGS INTO THE CHURCH, it was greatly resisted by two apostles, PAUL AND JOHN. But when they died, this iniquity took hold in the church and became the main teaching of the church, in 325 AD.
Paul wrote about this iniquity, and that it would take place in 2 Thesolations, This man of sin, is not a real person, it is A FALSE “IMAGE” OF THE MAN JESUS BEING PRESENTED or DESPLAYED AS A “GOD”. HE IS THE ONLY ONE WHO NOW SETS IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD BEING and is being DESPLAYED AS A GOD, being worshipped as a GOD.
Vertually all of modern Christianity has fallen into this IDOLATRY , IT IS A GREAT INIQUITY , which Jesus himself will destory at his return, he will once and for all abolish out of his own mouth this false teaching, then many will come to see how they were decieved by Satan himself and his teachers.
He who has an ear let him heard.
peace and loveto you all and yours…………………gene
Rev 3;14. Why did Jesus say I am the beginning of the creation of God ?(kjv is the closest translation of the Greek)
Many bible scholars recognise the 7 churches are in fact a prophetic word in chronological order. and we are in the Loadicean age. Jesus states different things in the beginning of each letter pertaining only to that church. if this is correct, then is it saying that the Spirit of the Son of God asnd the so called trinity are on the agenda this age?
What is it about the message to Laodicea that might pertain to the trinity? or that the doctrine of trinity is on the agenda of the last church age.
I do find vs 14 interesting that Jesus calls himself the Amen,the faithful and true witness,and the beginning of God’s creation. ESV Could this somehow point to trinity?
Also in vs 21Jesus says the one who conquers will be granted to sit on his throne as Jesus conquered and sat down with his Father on his throne.
Most of the NT says Jesus is seated at God’s right hand so I wonder why in Revelation Jesus says he sits on the Fathers throne and if we overcome we will be granted to sit on Jesus throne.It almost seems as if Jesus is sitting on the Fathers lap and believers sit on Jesus lap if they overcome.
What is more helpful @DavidL is scripture.
And if teaching goes against scripture, then the teaching is false.
Mainstream teaching has probably never been the truth. Orthodoxy often persecutes the truth. It was this way in Jesus time and our time is no different.
Show us scriptures and you have our attention. Show us mainstream videos from people who have been brainwashed by the system, and you have mainstream and orthodox teachings and ideas. But we must be aware of the fact that the whole world is under the sway of the evil one. Going against this world and its many systems can be a scary prospect, but our fear should not be with man, but God who can DESTROY both body and soul in Hell. Therefore we will listen to God and he spoke to us through the scriptures. A Youtube video might be helpful, but when it contradicts scripture, there should only be one outcome.
Paul
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
John
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Peter
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Jesus
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Myself
There is one God and he is the Father of all, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. God sent his son into the world so that the world could be saved and that God could dwell in all. He made Jesus both Lord and Christ and sent him to die for our sins. He was raised from the dead, and taken up to be with God in the glory that he had with him before the world began. Today we are invited to sit with the Lord Jesus Christ in heavenly places. He calls us brothers and we will be like him and inhabit a body like his. God will be with his people and there will be no more tears and pain. It will be a new day for the old heavens, earth, and things of this world including the wicked will be burned with fire. Then there will be a new heavens and new earth. The former will pass away, the old burned up, and the wicked destroyed as it is written. All things will be new. Encourage one another with these words.
Yes we can be seated with Christ on his throne, while Jesus is seated on the Father’s throne. I am not sure what you mean by the Trinity. Are you saying that the teaching might be related to a particular Church mentioned in Revelation?
The trinity says that there is one god and all 3 are that god on various forms, a pastor I heard pray, this is the very words he prayed, ‘thankyou Lord Jesus for bringing us back to yourself”. they say that the son of god before he became a man was co eternal with the Father. Jesus says here the opposite, he says HE was the beginning of the creation of GOD, His father and ours.
If Jesus is a co-eternal it must be only in the thought of Jehovah.So Jehovah’s first thought or decree was having a son.So he had to make a physical creation in order to produce this son.This son was what Paul called the mystery hidden in God before time.
Yes Jesus has a father according to scripture,yet Jehovah father made this son Lord.In the mind of God it seems he wanted one to hand his dominion over to.Thus Jesus is given all authority over heaven and earth at his resurrection as in Matt 28.
It’s like a founder of a company passing it on to his progeny.So now Jesus is ruler of his father’s company or creation and he-Jehovah now takes a sabbath rest.
Jesus sits on his papa’s lap now ruling,giving Abba a well deserved break.Thus making his son a replacement for himself.
t8
The point of this study is to examine one of the most accepted doctrines in Christianity, namely the Trinity Doctrine.
You start on the false premise that the trinity is simply no more than a religious doctrine – when, for born again believers, the Deity of the Son of God is a reality based on the revelation of Jesus Christ Himself..!!!
A foundation that no mere “logical” examination can touch or alter – and yet may cause doubts in those who are more weak in the faith…hence the danger of such teaching that denies the trinity (as all cults do).
Just as the serpent caused Eve to doubt the Word of God in the garden, by his subtle reasoning.. so he still works today to substitute the true light of spiritual revelation with the deceptive counterfeit of carnal reasoning..
“See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form..” – Colossians 2:8,9
t8
This study will test the doctrine with scripture to see if it is really taught in the bible.
Wrong – this study is the effort of corrupt teachers who have a predisposition against the trinity, and are thus forced to re-interpret Scripture into the context of their own misguided beliefs…
Scripture must always define our beliefs first – not the other way around…
Hi DavidL
t8
This study will test the doctrine with scripture to see if it is really taught in the bible.
Wrong – this study is the effort of corrupt teachers who have a predisposition against the trinity, and are thus forced to re-interpret Scripture into the context of their own misguided beliefs…
Scripture must always define our beliefs first – not the other way around…
Are you saying with no predisposition to believing in the trinity you would have perceived a trinity without any mention of such a thing?
You would look at the scripture: “The Lord God is One Lord” and thought to yourself it could mean something different?
Let’s say you took things quite literally and Jesus says “I and the Father are one” are you saying you would take that to mean there is another one to make up three in one?
Please bear with me but I am trying to grasp how the idea would come about naturally and before you start saying you need the spirit to Guide you to understand it that would not make sense as believing comes through hearing and the people believe and accept before they have the spirit guiding them so if you were trying to convert me how would you do it? Would you preach to me about the Gospel or would you present the trinity?
You start on the false premise that the trinity is simply no more than a religious doctrine – when, for born again believers, the Deity of the Son of God is a reality based on the revelation of Jesus Christ Himself..!!!
A foundation that no mere “logical” examination can touch or alter – and yet may cause doubts in those who are more weak in the faith…hence the danger of such teaching that denies the trinity (as all cults do).
Just as the serpent caused Eve to doubt the Word of God in the garden, by his subtle reasoning.. so he still works today to substitute the true light of spiritual revelation with the deceptive counterfeit of carnal reasoning..
Wrong again DavidL. Be careful not to bear false witness. Hopefully by reading the following you can see that I did not start with the false premise that the trinity is simply no more than a religious doctrine. No I started by believing it and because of my honest search in this matter was led to see it for what it is.
I was taught the Trinity after I first believed and accepted that it was right without checking it out. I even remember debating someone over this and my position was the Trinity was true. However, after reading scripture and understanding that there was one true God the Father and Jesus as his son, it made me think otherwise as it should do with all who seek the truth.
Upon bringing it up with others in the faith who believed the Trinity Doctrine, it soon became apparent to me that this was off the table as far as testing all things. Rather than rock the boat, I left it and decided to believe it even though it appeared to be false.
Years later, I couldn’t ignore it any longer and decided to put this to bed once and for all. Around this time I was getting prophetic input from a number of people who said that God wanted me to write down what he has put in my heart. This was accompanied by visions too. In order to be faithful to what God was doing, I responded. This is what I did.
I decided to write down my findings from an honest study of the scriptures regarding who God is and who and what Jesus is. It was amazing. I was led to scriptures divinely almost on a daily basis. One time I shared what I found to a friend over the phone and to his amazement I pointed him to about 5 scriptures and he found them all immediately upon opening the bible randomly.
But even then, this is what I expected. I thought that by writing my findings down and publishing it on the We back around 2000 I think, that this would give ample opportunity for others to show me where I erred. I awaited correction, and upon getting it, I expected to then teach the Trinity more than anyone once I was corrected.
What really happened though was no one was ever able to show me the Trinity in scripture. The more they tried, the more I could see that they were following tradition and not what was written. The Truth and Tradition forum here was created for this very reason, This has continued over the years and nothing has changed.
Brainwashed Believers have come and gone and make the same lame arguments. And their reasoning is easy to see through. It soon became apparent that I had stumbled across a mass deception in Christianity and was comforted to some degree by knowing that this had happened before regarding teachings on the Church and Salvation among other subjects.
So this site’s mission became an effort to test all things to see if they are so. Before and after my experience I got relevant visions regarding this. I know that Believers are basically prisoners of Babylon and like the Jews in the past, have accepted the gods and teachings of Babylon. I even received a powerful vision of Babylon itself, and I was able to escape it. Once I was out, I saw the fences that hedge those inside and some even saw me and were puzzled as to how I got out. Christian City is not the city of God. It is a prison that keeps people hemmed inside with certain doctrines as the fences.
Part of what God has me doing is top call his people out. Who are you to oppose this.
Wrong – this study is the effort of corrupt teachers who have a predisposition against the trinity, and are thus forced to re-interpret Scripture into the context of their own misguided beliefs…
Scripture must always define our beliefs first – not the other way around…
lol DavidL. Look in the mirror, you have forgotten what you look like.
When I repeat the words of eternal life to you that we know the ONLY TRUE GOD and ALSO know the one whom HE sent, this is denied and cancelled out by the tradition that you hold to. So it is you who does this very thing. This is like a thief saying it is wrong to steal. lol, you need eyes to see DavidL.
It is true what I say about you. It can be hard to see in yourself what is obvious to others.
Certainly you deny all the scriptures about God being a HE and HIM, and when it says that there is only one God, the Father, you disagree.
Man up and accept that this is true. Do not be like the alcoholic who refuses to accept he is an alcoholic. You need to rise above denial and conquer it.
t8
after reading scripture and understanding that there was one true God the Father and Jesus as his son, it made me think otherwise as it should do with all who seek the truth.
First, in your testimony you seem to have conveniently left out the part where you have obviously studied Catholic doctrine and triad belief systems, which unfortunately would have a major impact on how you view Scripture…but you leave this out, so we are left to presume that your teaching is based purely on Scripture…? so even your own testimony is selective and misleading..!
What you constantly fail to understand is that to acknowledge the Father as God and Jesus as His Son IN NO WAY INVALIDATES THE TRINITY..
Of course, what you acknowledge IS true – BUT IT IS NOT THE WHOLE TRUTH…!!!
We must take the whole testimony of Scripture – not reach our conclusions based on certain verses that seem to say one thing only, while denying every other verse that says anything else.. and yet this is exactly what you have done, you look at one side of the coin and think it is the complete picture… you view Christ in His humanity and think therefore He can’t be God – yet as Scripture reveals – He is completely God AND completely man… otherwise He could never truly be the perfect mediator He is…
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