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Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 09 2012,03:15) t8,
you said:Quote And he is the prototype son and are we not sons of God. He, Jesus, is eternal, we are not. Here lies the difference between being the only begotten/not created son who is God by nature and attributes and being the created son who is not God by nature and attributes.
Correction.Being the prototype does not mean you are eternal. It means you were the first. Your post is prejudice at work.
In what context is the word prototype ever used to mean eternal existence?
And if your definition were true, then that would mean you teach that the Father is a prototype too.
Far from it. God is eternal, not a prototype.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 09 2012,10:47) That is a HILARIOUS avatar, t8! 
It brings back memories of Ting-a-ling. (That was our Chinese Pug when I was young. My parents figured that since she was a Chinese Pug, she should have a Chinese sounding name.
)
I like the teeth the best, but they do look a little artificial.
And I could adapt the name to 'ting 8 ling'.LU, let's be clear about something.
The reason you and KJ have the view that YHWH is the God of this wicked world is because if it was Satan as most already know, you both would then have to concede to the true meaning of the word 'theos' and thus it would threaten your whole case about Jesus being the Most High Theos.LU, what you do not realise is this.
“This, then, is the judgment: The light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil. For everyone who practices wicked things hates the light and avoids it, so that his deeds may not be exposed. But anyone who lives by the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be shown to be accomplished by God.”
So God has freely shone his light, and men have freely rejected his light. This means that they are handed over to the one who blinds them until such time they receive the true light.
Whether you can accept this or not, God even uses Satan and demons for his own will.
t8,
Please answer this:God needs to use satan to blind the minds of people. Yes or No
God can blind the minds of people Himself. Yes or No
God desires men to come to belief in Him through their intellect more so than their faith. Yes or No
God desires men to come to belief in Him through faith. Yes or No
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 08 2012,15:57) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 09 2012,03:15) t8,
you said:Quote And he is the prototype son and are we not sons of God. He, Jesus, is eternal, we are not. Here lies the difference between being the only begotten/not created son who is God by nature and attributes and being the created son who is not God by nature and attributes.
Correction.Being the prototype does not mean you are eternal. It means you were the first. Your post is prejudice at work.
In what context is the word prototype ever used to mean eternal existence?
And if your definition were true, then that would mean you teach that the Father is a prototype too.
Far from it. God is eternal, not a prototype.
Neither one are prototypes because they are both one of a kind…one God the Father, one God the Son. They are both eternal because they are both the 'First and the Last.'In the case of Jesus being made according to the flesh, He is considered the first of many brethren. But not so according to His eternal sonship. In that He was an only Son, no first of many.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 08 2012,15:42) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 07 2012,23:09) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 07 2012,23:49) Jesus himself told us that his God is also our God, and Jesus didn't worship any “echad unity” thing, I see no reason for me to worship an “echad unity” thing.
You and Jesus do not have the same God, Mike.
Sure we do.Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one Father ? Did not one God create us?It's easy to see that the “one Father” Malachi mentioned IS the “one God” who created us all. Well, it's easy IF your mind is not blinded by the god of this age.
It is THAT God who is JESUS' God. And it is THAT God who is MY God. See? I and Jesus have the same exact God – just like he said we do.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,Kathi, in the above scripture, is Jesus:
A. The “one God” Paul mentions?
B. The mediator between us and that “one God”?Which one?
Jesus is the mediator between us and God.Mike, is this mediator one of the two 'the theos' that was involved in creation, needed to be believed in for eternal salvation of all mankind, mentioned in our prayers, given praise, honor, glory and dominion for ever and ever? Yes or No
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 08 2012,16:01) LU, let's be clear about something.
The reason you and KJ have the view that YHWH is the God of this wicked world is because if it was Satan as most already know, you both would then have to concede to the true meaning of the word 'theos' and thus it would threaten your whole case about Jesus being the Most High Theos.
satan does not threaten Jesus' eternal sonship and thus godship although you might like to think so. Jesus took care of satan on the cross and will lock him up and eventually eternally punish him.Let me ask you this, if I can find that God loves this world and that He is the God of this world and every other world are you going to believe that you could be wrong?
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 08 2012,18:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 08 2012,15:42)
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,Kathi, in the above scripture, is Jesus:
A. The “one God” Paul mentions?
B. The mediator between us and that “one God”?Which one?
Jesus is the mediator between us and God.
Between us and “God”? Or between us and our “ONE God”?Kathi, no more should EVER need to be said on the subject. Malachi's words, in and of themselves, are enough. Paul's words, in and of themselves are enough. Your answer to the question about Paul's words, in and of itself, is enough.
Why do you keep fighting it?
We and Jesus have the same “one God”. That “one God” is the Father. Jesus is not that “one God”, but the mediator BETWEEN us and that “one God”.
Mike,
The one theos that is the mediator is a mediator between us and the one theos that is the Father.Now answer my question:
Mike, is this mediator one of the two 'the theos' that was involved in creation, needed to be believed in for eternal salvation of all mankind, mentioned in our prayers, given praise, honor, glory and dominion for ever and ever? Yes or NoQuote (Lightenup @ Dec. 09 2012,06:46) t8,
Please answer this:God needs to use satan to blind the minds of people. Yes or No
God can blind the minds of people Himself. Yes or No
God desires men to come to belief in Him through their intellect more so than their faith. Yes or No
God desires men to come to belief in Him through faith. Yes or No
Kathiwhat type of question are those
the answer to all is simple ;if you do not look for the truth of God you are looking for the devil way ,
we only have two options God or Satan (the opposition )
kathi
Quote God desires men to come to belief in Him through their intellect more so than their faith. Yes or No we all can believe but without understanding what is the use of it ;how do we know that it his the truth
look what you doing you figure that the way you understand it with your reasoning that that is the truth ,but is it or is it only your truth and some other men to me if it is not God's truth then it is not the truth that I want because it would be the truth of this world ;only two options ;no way out of that one
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2012,21:07) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 09 2012,06:46) t8,
Please answer this:God needs to use satan to blind the minds of people. Yes or No
God can blind the minds of people Himself. Yes or No
God desires men to come to belief in Him through their intellect more so than their faith. Yes or No
God desires men to come to belief in Him through faith. Yes or No
Kathiwhat type of question are those
the answer to all is simple ;if you do not look for the truth of God you are looking for the devil way ,
we only have two options God or Satan (the opposition )
If the answers are simple Pierre, then show us your answers.Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 09 2012,08:35) Pierre,
Do you believe in the internet? Do you understand it? Is it useful to you?
Kathiare you trying to make it the third party
if so their is no third party with God ,only two possibilities ,I know that the good is mingled with the bad ,but that does not make it the third party.
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 09 2012,08:36) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2012,21:07) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 09 2012,06:46) t8,
Please answer this:God needs to use satan to blind the minds of people. Yes or No
God can blind the minds of people Himself. Yes or No
God desires men to come to belief in Him through their intellect more so than their faith. Yes or No
God desires men to come to belief in Him through faith. Yes or No
Kathiwhat type of question are those
the answer to all is simple ;if you do not look for the truth of God you are looking for the devil way ,
we only have two options God or Satan (the opposition )
If the answers are simple Pierre, then show us your answers.
kathiI thought you understood my respond ,it look s like you did not right
Pierre,
I do not know what you are talking about. I do not know how you would answer those questions. Please answer them with a yes or no and tell me which question you are saying that about.Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 08 2012,19:48) Mike,
The one theos that is the mediator is a mediator between us and the one theos that is the Father.Now answer my question:
Mike, is this mediator one of the two 'the theos' that was involved in creation, needed to be believed in for eternal salvation of all mankind, mentioned in our prayers, given praise, honor, glory and dominion for ever and ever? Yes or No
Paul did not write “one Father”, Kathi. He wrote “one GOD”, and one mediator between us and that “one GOD”.If Jesus is the mediator, than he cannot possibly be that “one God”, can he?
As for your question:
1. Yes, Jesus is a god. And just as Satan is called THE god of Ekron, Jesus is also sometimes called THE god of something or the other.2. I don't know of any scripture that says Jesus was “involved in” creation. I know that God, ALONE and BY HIMSELF, created all things THROUGH His holy servant Jesus Christ.
3. Yes, we need to believe not only in the God who can save us, but also in the name of the servant He sent to earth for that purpose.
4. I don't necessarily mention Jesus “IN” my prayers – except to always thank my God Jehovah for loving us so much that He was willing to sacrifice even His only begotten Son for us.
I do, however, make my prayers to God THROUGH His holy servant Jesus Christ. But that is a little different than what you are implying, isn't it?
5. Yes, the holy servant of God is given praise, honor, glory, and dominion. And he will receive these things forever because, since he died and was raised back to life by his God and our God, he cannot die again.
Mike,
Thanks for your answers.
you said:Quote I know that God, ALONE and BY HIMSELF, created all things THROUGH His holy servant Jesus Christ. So God did not create anything directly, is that what you are saying?
Also, by your answers, you admit that Jesus is a god that is given praise, honor, glory and dominion for ever and ever with the Father and that you pray through this god and through this god all things were created, and we need to believe in this god for our salvation.
So, why again is He a little 'g' God to you if He does big God things?
Quote Paul did not write “one Father”, Kathi. He wrote “one GOD”, and one mediator between us and that “one GOD”. Isn't Paul referring to the one Father when he mentions the one God? And didn't you just tell me that Jesus is a god, wouldn't that make one theos as mediator and one theos as the one mediated to?
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 08 2012,21:33) So God did not create anything directly, is that what you are saying?
Nope.Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 08 2012,21:33) So, why again is He a little 'g' God to you if He does big God things?
What “big God things”? Name a thing that Jesus himself initiated.Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 08 2012,21:33) Isn't Paul referring to the one Father when he mentions the one God?
Of course he is. For us, there is but one God, the Father, remember? He is the God of me, the God of you, the God of Paul, and the God of Jesus. Jesus is not that God, but the mediator BETWEEN us and that God.Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 08 2012,21:33) And didn't you just tell me that Jesus is a god, wouldn't that make one theos as mediator and one theos as the one mediated to?
Yep. Just like one theos allowed a different theos to wreak havoc on Job. Again, there are two theos involved, but only one we are to worship as our God.
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