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Quote (t8 @ Dec. 08 2012,09:06) Terr, maybe I should get a dog avatar too and join the pack.
t8i am rolling on the floor laughing.
this is a good one Oh wow…that would make three individual dogs who are united as one. What a concept!? How can more than one person be a unity if one member is in authority of the others? Maybe call yourselves the dog unity…go figure.
Do you see how there can be more than one dog in a dog unity? And one dog (t8) is higher in authority to the others? And how yet, each dog member would be equal in nature and attributes?
That seems simple enough…then it can be said that t8, Mike, and Pierre are one. How about that! Maybe you will understand the concept a little better when it is about a dog unity instead of a God unity. Now all you have to do is realize that each member of the God unity is a God with one member in authority of the other member and yet equal in nature and attributes.
Can the dog unity play connect the dots? We'll see.
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 08 2012,10:36) *luffing 
LOL
#hewholuffslastluffsloudest
sorry should be 'laughing.
thanks Kathi, learned something todayQuote (Lightenup @ Dec. 08 2012,10:32) Oh wow…that would make three individual dogs who are united as one. What a concept!? How can more than one person be a unity if one member is in authority of the others? Maybe call yourselves the dog unity…go figure. Do you see how there can be more than one dog in a dog unity? And one dog (t8) is higher in authority to the others? And how yet, each dog member would be equal in nature and attributes?
That seems simple enough…then it can be said that t8, Mike, and Pierre are one. How about that! Maybe you will understand the concept a little better when it is about a dog unity instead of a God unity. Now all you have to do is realize that each member of the God unity is a God with one member in authority of the other member and yet equal in nature and attributes.
Can the dog unity play connect the dots? We'll see.
Kathilaughing.my head off so to speak
any more dog stories
his a fox an dog ?? yes they are cousins amazing the things I learn with you ,
I can tell you that the three won make the pair never mind a unit
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 07 2012,22:32) Now all you have to do is realize that each member of the God unity is a God with one member in authority of the other member and yet equal in nature and attributes.
Jesus and I worship the same one God – the One in authority.And since Jesus himself told us that his God is also our God, and Jesus didn't worship any “echad unity” thing, I see no reason for me to worship an “echad unity” thing.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 07 2012,17:27) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 07 2012,11:40) Nope…he is considered a ruler, but not 'the god.'
Okay, let me get this straight.You are saying that YHWH is the God of this age even though we are told not to love this age, and Satan is the ruler of this age.
So that means that God has made Satan one of the rulers of God's world.
Oh, this is getting worse Kathi.
One lie leads to another and so on.
Let me put this straight for you.
YHWH is the God of the Heavens and the Earth.
Satan is the God of this age/world/eon.God loved those in this world that he sent his son to die for their sins. And all things are being made subject to Jesus so eventually all will be back with God so that he can dwell in all.
The Kingdom of God will eventually destroy the kingdoms of the world and will remain forever.
But Kathi can only believe that God is the God of this world and he will destroy his own wicked world with his own Kingdom of God.
So for Kathi, the battle is really about God against God. And not God against Satan.
God is competing with his world and his kingdom.
Poor Kathi. She does not realise that this world is a system of government just as the Kingdom of God is.
She is espousing more confusion. She is babbling and hence why she needs to come out of Babylon.
Expect to see more babbling as she needs to reshape more and more scripture to fit her doctrine.
So, t8,You get so, shall I say…full of drama in your little posts expressing your confusion, don't you.
Who has allowed satan to rule in this world? When you answer that question, you will know who is God of this world.
God did not make satan a ruler…He allowed it, but this will end. Learn the difference between causing something to happen and allowing something to happen.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 07 2012,23:49) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 07 2012,22:32) Now all you have to do is realize that each member of the God unity is a God with one member in authority of the other member and yet equal in nature and attributes.
Jesus and I worship the same one God – the One in authority.And since Jesus himself told us that his God is also our God, and Jesus didn't worship any “echad unity” thing, I see no reason for me to worship an “echad unity” thing.
You and Jesus do not have the same God, Mike. His God is not His creator. His God is His Father. Together they form the YHWH Echad, the eternal God unity.Since you don't have the same God as Jesus…your God is Jesus' creator and only in that way is He Jesus' Father (according to you), then you wouldn't see the Father and the Son YHWH Echad. You will not perceive this with understanding as long as you believe Jesus was created.
The God of this age has blinded the mind of the intellect. You bring this verse to life for me, Mike…you and your dog unity.
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 07 2012,23:47) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 08 2012,10:32) Oh wow…that would make three individual dogs who are united as one. What a concept!? How can more than one person be a unity if one member is in authority of the others? Maybe call yourselves the dog unity…go figure. Do you see how there can be more than one dog in a dog unity? And one dog (t8) is higher in authority to the others? And how yet, each dog member would be equal in nature and attributes?
That seems simple enough…then it can be said that t8, Mike, and Pierre are one. How about that! Maybe you will understand the concept a little better when it is about a dog unity instead of a God unity. Now all you have to do is realize that each member of the God unity is a God with one member in authority of the other member and yet equal in nature and attributes.
Can the dog unity play connect the dots? We'll see.
Kathilaughing.my head off so to speak
any more dog stories
his a fox an dog ?? yes they are cousins amazing the things I learn with you ,
I can tell you that the three won make the pair never mind a unit
Sorry Pierre, I don't understand 'fox' lingo. I don't know what the heck you just wrote or tried to write, but I'm glad you seem happy.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 08 2012,17:32) Would that make us a Trinity Doghead?
One dog three persons or three dogs, one nature?Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 08 2012,18:32) Oh wow…that would make three individual dogs who are united as one. What a concept!? How can more than one person be a unity if one member is in authority of the others? Maybe call yourselves the dog unity…go figure. Do you see how there can be more than one dog in a dog unity? And one dog (t8) is higher in authority to the others? And how yet, each dog member would be equal in nature and attributes?
That seems simple enough…then it can be said that t8, Mike, and Pierre are one. How about that! Maybe you will understand the concept a little better when it is about a dog unity instead of a God unity. Now all you have to do is realize that each member of the God unity is a God with one member in authority of the other member and yet equal in nature and attributes.
Can the dog unity play connect the dots? We'll see.
But our lowly bodies will be transformed into a body like his and he will call us brothers. And he prayed that we would be one with him. And he is the prototype son and are we not sons of God.So if Jesus is God then we must be too.
But Jesus is not God, and nor are we.For us there is one God the Father.
Among other things, Jesus is the son of God and we are sons of God.This is the truth. Why fight it. What spirit is the adversary of God?
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 08 2012,19:01) So, t8, You get so, shall I say…full of drama in your little posts expressing your confusion, don't you.
Who has allowed satan to rule in this world? When you answer that question, you will know who is God of this world.
God did not make satan a ruler…He allowed it, but this will end. Learn the difference between causing something to happen and allowing something to happen.
Kathi. This is like saying that God is the God of the dead. When it says that he is the God of the living.You could make the argument that God is the boss of the dead and all that, but scripture says that he is not the God of the dead but the living.
Likewise God is the ultimate authority even over the God of this world. But that doesn't mean that the Most High God is the God of this world. That would be like saying he is the God of murder, adultery, the love of money, and all that. Because the world is wicked in case you didn't realise it and you can't blame God for the way it is. In fact this is why the ruler of this world is cast down.
In scripture we are told that our adversary is the world. “Do not be of the world” etc. That is because our true adversary is the Devil and this is his world. You cannot blame God one bit for the way this world is. For a start, the economics are different. In the world there is money and in the Kingdom of God, the economy is giving and receiving.
Did not Jesus clearly say that “My Kingdom is not of this world”. He clearly pointed that out to distance himself from the world as much as possible. And he said, render to Cesar what is his and to God what is his.
Notice how all these translations either say it is Satan or leave God in lower caps implying that it is not the true God.
New International Version (©1984)
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.New Living Translation (©2007)
Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.English Standard Version (©2001)
In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.New American Standard Bible (©1995)
in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
In their case, the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.International Standard Version (©2012)
In their case, the god of this world has blinded the minds of those who do not believe to keep them from seeing the light of the glorious gospel of the Messiah, who is the image of God.King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.The only people I have come into contact with that say that this verse is talking about YHWH id yourself and KJ. It is universally accepted that this is talking about Satan.
It is possible that you two are the only ones right, but I truly doubt that, not just because you are in such a minority here, but the text is clear by whom it is implying.
t8,
I couldn't have said it better than Clarke's commentary on the verse. I realize that your opinion that satan is here meant is a popular opinion, but to think that KJ and myself are the only two who think it is God Almighty meant here is really an opinion that needs enlightenment. Here is Clarke's commentary on the matter:Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
In whom the god of this world, etc. – We see here that those whose minds are blinded, are they who believe not; and because they believe not, their minds continue in darkness, and are proper subjects for Satan to work on; and he deepens the darkness, and increases the hardness. But who is meant by the god of this world? It is generally answered, the same who is called the prince of this world, John 16:11. But the question recurs, who is the prince of this world? and the answer to both is, Satan. The reader will do well to consult the notes on John 12:31, and the concluding observations on John 14:30. I must own I feel considerable reluctance to assign the epithet ὁ Θεος, The God, to Satan; and were there not a rooted prejudice in favor of the common opinion, the contrary might be well vindicated, viz. that by the God of this world the supreme Being is meant, who in his judgment gave over the minds of the unbelieving Jews to spiritual darkness, so that destruction came upon them to the uttermost. Satan, it is true, has said that the kingdoms of the world and their glory are his, and that he gives them to whomsoever he will; Matthew 4:8, Matthew 4:9. But has God ever said so? and are we to take this assertion of the boasting devil and father of lies for truth? Certainly not. We are not willing to attribute the blinding of men's minds to God, because we sometimes forget that he is the God of justice, and may in judgment remove mercies from those that abuse them; but this is repeatedly attributed to him in the Bible, and the expression before us is quite a parallel to the following, Isaiah 6:9 : Go and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the Heart of this People Fat, and Make their Ears Heavy, and Shut their Eyes; Lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, etc. And see the parallel places, Matthew 13:14, Matthew 13:15; Mark 4:12; John 12:40; and particularly Romans 11:8-10 : God Hath Given Them the Spirit of Slumber, Eyes that they Should not See, and Ears that they Should not Hear; let their Eyes be Darkened, etc. Now all this is spoken of the same people, in the same circumstances of wilful rebellion and obstinate unbelief; and the great God of heaven and earth is he who judicially blinds their eyes; makes their hearts fat, i.e. stupid; gives them the spirit of slumber: and bows down their back, etc. On these very grounds it is exceedingly likely that the apostle means the true God by the words the god of this world.
And as to the expression this world, αιωνος τουτου, we are not to imagine that it necessarily means wicked men, or a wicked age; for it is frequently used to express the whole mundane system, and all that is called time: Whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither εν τουτῳ τῳ αιωνι, in This World, nor in the world to come; Matthew 12:32. In Luke 20:34, the children, υἱοι του αιωνος τουτου, of This World, mean simply mankind at large in their state of probation in this lower world, in opposition to their state in the world to come. The same meaning the word has in several other places, to which l need not refer; it simply implying the present state of things, governed by the Divine providence, in contradistinction from the eternal state: and it is very remarkable that, in 1 Timothy 1:17, God himself is called Βασιλευς των αιωνων, the King of the World; what we call King eternal; but here it evidently means him who governs both worlds, and rules in time and eternity. This character among the Asiatics is considered essential to God; and therefore in the very first surat of the Koran he is called Rubbi Alalameen, “the Lord of both worlds,” an expression perfectly similar to that above. But it is needless to multiply examples; they exist in abundance. Some, and particularly the ancient fathers, have connected του αιωνος τουτου with των απιστων, and have read the verse: But God hath blinded the minds of the unbelievers of this world, etc. Irenaeus, Tertullian, Chrysostom, Theodoret, Photius, Theophylact, and Augustine, all plead for the above meaning; and St. Augustine says that it was the opinion of almost all the ancients.
Lest the light of the glorious Gospel – They have resisted the grace which God gave them, and have refused to yield to the evidences which amply prove the Messiahship of Jesus; and therefore their eyes were judicially darkened, as it is said in the prophet: He hath closed their eyes, and hath given them the spirit of slumber. That is, they have shut their eyes against the light, and their blindness and stupor are the consequence.
By glorious Gospel we are to understand the luminous Gospel; that which comes with so much light and evidence to every candid mind.
Who is the image of God – Christ is called, Hebrews 1:3, the brightness of God's glory, and the express image of his person. See the note at Hebrews 1:3.
From here: http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/4-4.htm
t8,
you said:Quote And he is the prototype son and are we not sons of God. He, Jesus, is eternal, we are not. Here lies the difference between being the only begotten/not created son who is God by nature and attributes and being the created son who is not God by nature and attributes.
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 07 2012,23:09) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 07 2012,23:49) Jesus himself told us that his God is also our God, and Jesus didn't worship any “echad unity” thing, I see no reason for me to worship an “echad unity” thing.
You and Jesus do not have the same God, Mike.
Sure we do.Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one Father ? Did not one God create us?It's easy to see that the “one Father” Malachi mentioned IS the “one God” who created us all. Well, it's easy IF your mind is not blinded by the god of this age.
It is THAT God who is JESUS' God. And it is THAT God who is MY God. See? I and Jesus have the same exact God – just like he said we do.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,Kathi, in the above scripture, is Jesus:
A. The “one God” Paul mentions?
B. The mediator between us and that “one God”?Which one?
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 08 2012,01:03) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 08 2012,17:32) Would that make us a Trinity Doghead?
One dog three persons or three dogs, one nature?
That is a HILARIOUS avatar, t8!It brings back memories of Ting-a-ling. (That was our Chinese Pug when I was young. My parents figured that since she was a Chinese Pug, she should have a Chinese sounding name.
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