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Quote (t8 @ Nov. 18 2012,16:33) Is, I can't find it. I can see 1 John 1:2-3, but not your paraphrase of John 17:1-5. Please copy and paste it as it will take you less than a minute if it is there. I would appreciate that.
I am not necessarily speaking for Paul since he can speak very well for himself but I would like to address John 17:1-5I agree with Paul in that the Father AND the Son are required to be known for eternal life. I will add that when the Son is speaking of His Father as being the one true God, it is not in comparison with Himself but in comparison with the 'gods' of the nations which the OT speaks quite often about.
This is obvious to many, since there are two who are called 'the theos' in scripture that are together involved in creation, salvation of all mankind, sit together on one throne, whose name has power to heal, who receive all praise honor, glory AND dominion FOREVER and EVER, are one according to Jesus.
The one true God is the YHWH Echad of Israel who alone created and brings salvation to all mankind. Of whom no other so called god can snatch out of His hand, the hand of the eternal unity…the YHWH Echad.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 17 2012,04:15) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 17 2012,10:38) Is this your way of saying that there are two that are called 'the theos' that are one?
It would be if I could see all the scriptures that called Jesus, theos. You said there were 5 or so, and that wouldn't be much to post here. Then I could go through each one and see if they have the definite article, i.e., THE theos.If they did, then that would be a yes.
t8,
Why not start with the three that I have already shown you? See the article in the Greek in those.Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 26 2012,07:52) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 16 2012,15:26) t8-
Where does scripture say that the judges were theos?
Where have men been called theos?
Where are angels called theos?
I asked t8 this question in the quoted post and did not get an answer but scripture that do not specifically say that judges are theos, or men, or angels. He tried to tell me that satan was the god of this world and that the God of Israel is not…wow!Isn't the God of Israel the God of both the Jews and the Gentiles?
I actually replied to that question and I also don't remember saying the following:
“me that satan was the god of this world and that the God of Israel is not”.I actually said that Satan is the god of this world and YHWH is the God of the Earth.
I made a distinction between the world and the Earth.If you deny that Satan is the god of this world, then you are saying that YHWH s the God of this world. And that would be wrong.
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 25 2012,11:49) Are you going to act like you don't know that the Son sits on the same throne with His Father and that all glory, honor, dominion and praise is directed towards both the Father and the Son?
Are YOU going to act like the Son was on that throne in Rev 5:13?
Kathi, the Father GRANTS for His servant Jesus to sit on His throne…………. they don't SHARE possession of the throne. It would be like me GRANTING to Cody to sit in the driver's seat with me and steer the car for a while. Cody has his own seat in the car, which is NOT the driver's seat. Likewise, Jesus has his own throne in heaven, which is NOT the Father's throne. And Jesus will GRANT some of us to sit with him on his throne. But sitting in Jesus' throne with him will NOT equate us with Jesus, any more than Jesus being GRANTED to sit on His Father's throne with Him equates Jesus with his God and our God.Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 25 2012,11:49) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Tell me how all the things you listed make null and void the fact that we have but ONE God, and that God is not only OUR God, but also JESUS' God. Are you Cody's father?
Are you your own father??
See the difference?You are a father but you are not your own father. So does that make you not a father?
Jesus is a 'the theos' but He is not His own 'the theos' but that does not make Him not a 'the theos.'
Your argument is a fail.
What?!? If MY argument is a fail, then yours is a complete disaster – because it doesn't even address my point. The point, once again, is that OUR ONE AND ONLY God is the VERY SAME God that is JESUS' ONE AND ONLY God. Jesus himself said so.Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 25 2012,11:49) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Tell me how those things change the fact that Jesus is not God Almighty, but the Son, Servant, Mediator, Priest, Prophet, and Sacrificial Lamb OF God Almighty. Jesus is not God Almighty the Father but He is God Almighty the Son.
Once again, you have failed to even address the point. Try again.Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 25 2012,11:49) I don't understand the question. Would you like to re-state it?
Sure. The scriptures bear out the fact that our one and only Almighty God sent His Son and servant, Jesus Christ, into the world.YOUR claim is that the Father part of the echad Godhead sent the Son part of the echad Godhead into the world.
Are you able to see the difference between what YOU teach and what the SCRIPTURES teach? (I made the two teachings different colors, hoping that it might help you to see the differences.
)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 25 2012,11:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 16 2012,22:21) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 15 2012,19:42) Where doe it say that some of us will also be one 'with' them?
John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.It seems to me that “being one” means Jesus is in God, and God is in Jesus. And his PRAYER to HIS OWN GOD is that we ALSO be in them, making us one with them.
The difference Mike, is what are they one as and what are believers in them one as? What they are and what believers are would be two different things. They are one as the YHWH Echad and believers are the one church which honors, serves, praises and gives dominion to the YHWH Echad for ever and ever.
Oh, you mean like Moses and the Lamb ask, “Who will not bring glory to your name, for you alone are Holy” in the song they sing to their God and our God?Let's analyze these words of Jesus in John 17:21………….
…….that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.
Being “one” is equated with Jesus “being in” the Father, and the Father “being in” Jesus, right? (Hence the words, “may they be one, JUST AS you are in me, and I in you”.)
May they also be in us…………
So now Jesus prays to his God that they also “be in” them. So Jesus and the Father are “one” BECAUSE Jesus is “in” the Father, and the Father is “in” Jesus. Therefore, the disciples being “in” them equates to the disciples being “one” with them.
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 25 2012,12:06) I answered you with 1 Cor 8:6 which prohibits Deuteronomy 10:17 from calling the Father ALONE 'the God of gods and Lord of lords.”
Um……… no………….. it actually DOESN'T prohibit anything of the sort. Here, I'll prove it to you:Kathi, is the Father a God of other gods? YES or NO?
Is the Father a Lord of other lords? YES or NO?
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 25 2012,12:29) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) 1. Judges 5:8 NASB ©
“New gods were chosen; Then war was in the gates. Not a shield or a spear was seen Among forty thousand in Israel.The new gods were Deborah and Barak.
The new 'gods' were not Deborah and Barak. Try again.
As curious as I am to know who YOU think those new gods were, I will just sidestep that verse, and offer you this one:Exodus 21:6
then his master must bring him to the judges, and he will bring him to the door or the doorposts, and his master will pierce his ear with an awl, and he shall serve him forever.The Hebrew says “bring him to ha’elohim” (the gods).
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 25 2012,12:29) Context will show you in Psalm 45 that this is a messianic prophecy and not addressed literally to a human king as 'the theos.' Hebrews 1:8 confirms this.
Opinions vary on that one, so I'll move on. To whom do you suppose Jesus referred using the word “gods” in John 10:34-35? Men? Or angels?Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 25 2012,12:29) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) 3. Psalm 82:1 NET ©
God stands in the assembly of El; in the midst of the gods he renders judgment.No mention of the 'gods' here as being angels.
Then who are these gods who assemble with God, Kathi?Some commentators suggest they are human judges and kings. Others suggest it refers to the divine council, made up of God and His angels. Which one do you pick?
Either way, you'll have to concede one of your claims, right?
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 26 2012,19:56) What 3 scriptures. Please post them in one post.
I haven't got time for hunting right now.
t8,
The three scriptures that I have already shown you are:Heb 1:8
But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.For the Greek article, see:
http://interlinearbible.org/hebrews/1-8.htmActs 20:28
Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.For the Greek article, see:
http://interlinearbible.org/acts/20-28.htmJohn 20:28
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”For the Greek article, see:
http://interlinearbible.org/john/20-28.htmQuote (t8 @ Nov. 26 2012,20:01) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 26 2012,07:52) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 16 2012,15:26) t8-
Where does scripture say that the judges were theos?
Where have men been called theos?
Where are angels called theos?
I asked t8 this question in the quoted post and did not get an answer but scripture that do not specifically say that judges are theos, or men, or angels. He tried to tell me that satan was the god of this world and that the God of Israel is not…wow!Isn't the God of Israel the God of both the Jews and the Gentiles?
I actually replied to that question and I also don't remember saying the following:
“me that satan was the god of this world and that the God of Israel is not”.I actually said that Satan is the god of this world and YHWH is the God of the Earth.
I made a distinction between the world and the Earth.If you deny that Satan is the god of this world, then you are saying that YHWH s the God of this world. And that would be wrong.
YHWH is the God of this world. satan is not the god of this world.Also, I asked you this:
Where does scripture say that the judges were theos?
Where have men been called theos?
Where are angels called theos?You replied with verses that do not specifically say that judges were theos, or men were theos, or that angels were called theos. So you need to find other verses that do say this or change your views here. Implications are not acceptable because they are subjective.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 26 2012,20:29) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 25 2012,11:49) Are you going to act like you don't know that the Son sits on the same throne with His Father and that all glory, honor, dominion and praise is directed towards both the Father and the Son?
Are YOU going to act like the Son was on that throne in Rev 5:13? Kathi, the Father GRANTS for His servant Jesus to sit on His throne…………. they don't SHARE possession of the throne. It would be like me GRANTING to Cody to sit in the driver's seat with me and steer the car for a while. Cody has his own seat in the car, which is NOT the driver's seat. Likewise, Jesus has his own throne in heaven, which is NOT the Father's throne. And Jesus will GRANT some of us to sit with him on his throne. But sitting in Jesus' throne with him will NOT equate us with Jesus, any more than Jesus being GRANTED to sit on His Father's throne with Him equates Jesus with his God and our God.Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 25 2012,11:49) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Tell me how all the things you listed make null and void the fact that we have but ONE God, and that God is not only OUR God, but also JESUS' God. Are you Cody's father?
Are you your own father??
See the difference?You are a father but you are not your own father. So does that make you not a father?
Jesus is a 'the theos' but He is not His own 'the theos' but that does not make Him not a 'the theos.'
Your argument is a fail.
What?!? If MY argument is a fail, then yours is a complete disaster – because it doesn't even address my point. The point, once again, is that OUR ONE AND ONLY God is the VERY SAME God that is JESUS' ONE AND ONLY God. Jesus himself said so.Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 25 2012,11:49) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Tell me how those things change the fact that Jesus is not God Almighty, but the Son, Servant, Mediator, Priest, Prophet, and Sacrificial Lamb OF God Almighty. Jesus is not God Almighty the Father but He is God Almighty the Son.
Once again, you have failed to even address the point. Try again.Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 25 2012,11:49) I don't understand the question. Would you like to re-state it?
Sure. The scriptures bear out the fact that our one and only Almighty God sent His Son and servant, Jesus Christ, into the world.YOUR claim is that the Father part of the echad Godhead sent the Son part of the echad Godhead into the world.
Are you able to see the difference between what YOU teach and what the SCRIPTURES teach? (I made the two teachings different colors, hoping that it might help you to see the differences.
)
Mike,Quote But sitting in Jesus' throne with him will NOT equate us with Jesus, any more than Jesus being GRANTED to sit on His Father's throne with Him equates Jesus with his God and our God. Being the Son of God equates Him with God the Father in nature and attributes. He doesn't need to sit on a throne at all in order to be equal to God, He just needs to be a literal begotten Son of God.
Quote The point, once again, is that OUR ONE AND ONLY God is the VERY SAME God that is JESUS' ONE AND ONLY God. Jesus himself said so. My point previously was that Jesus doesn't call Himself His own God but that doesn't mean that He is not our God also with the Father. Like you do not call yourself your own father but that doesn't mean that you are not someone's father.
So, when Jesus said to Mary not to hold on to Him because He was going to 'My Father and your Father, My God and your God,' He was not saying that He wasn't also with the Father as God. He was just telling her where He was going and implying that by His death and resurrection, His Father was also Mary's Father and not just Mary's God. Jesus' God is the Father. Mary's God is the Father with the Son. She has to believe in two 'the theos' for her eternal salvation, remember?Now, regarding these facts:
The two who are called 'the theos' in scriptures and are together involved in creation, salvation of all mankind, sit together on one throne, whose name has power to heal, who receive all praise, honor, glory AND dominion FOREVER and EVER, are one according to Jesus.you said:
Quote Tell me how those things change the fact that Jesus is not God Almighty, but the Son, Servant, Mediator, Priest, Prophet, and Sacrificial Lamb OF God Almighty. Those things, facts, do not change the fact that Jesus is not God Almighty the Father and I never said they did. But what you fail to see is that among being the Son, Servant, Mediator, Priest, Prophet, and Sacrificial Lamb of God, He is also Almighty God the Son.
you said:
Quote The scriptures bear out the fact that our one and only Almighty God sent His Son and servant, Jesus Christ, into the world. YOUR claim is that the Father part of the echad Godhead sent the Son part of the echad Godhead into the world.
Are you able to see the difference between what YOU teach and what t
he SCRIPTURES teach? (I made the two teachings different colors, hoping that it might help you to see the differences. )The God of gods sent the Lord of lords into the world. The God of gods (the Father) part of the YHWH Echad sent the Lord of lords (the Son) part of the YHWH Echad into the world. Simple and scriptural. Surely you can admit that the God of gods sent the Lord of lords into the world, yes?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 26 2012,20:41) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 25 2012,11:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 16 2012,22:21) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 15 2012,19:42) Where doe it say that some of us will also be one 'with' them?
John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.It seems to me that “being one” means Jesus is in God, and God is in Jesus. And his PRAYER to HIS OWN GOD is that we ALSO be in them, making us one with them.
The difference Mike, is what are they one as and what are believers in them one as? What they are and what believers are would be two different things. They are one as the YHWH Echad and believers are the one church which honors, serves, praises and gives dominion to the YHWH Echad for ever and ever.
Oh, you mean like Moses and the Lamb ask, “Who will not bring glory to your name, for you alone are Holy” in the song they sing to their God and our God?Let's analyze these words of Jesus in John 17:21………….
…….that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.
Being “one” is equated with Jesus “being in” the Father, and the Father “being in” Jesus, right? (Hence the words, “may they be one, JUST AS you are in me, and I in you”.)
May they also be in us…………
So now Jesus prays to his God that they also “be in” them. So Jesus and the Father are “one” BECAUSE Jesus is “in” the Father, and the Father is “in” Jesus. Therefore, the disciples being “in” them equates to the disciples being “one” with them.
Mike,
you said:Quote Therefore, the disciples being “in” them equates to the disciples being “one” with them. The disciples are not one with them as YHWH but one with them as the church.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 26 2012,20:46) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 25 2012,12:06) I answered you with 1 Cor 8:6 which prohibits Deuteronomy 10:17 from calling the Father ALONE 'the God of gods and Lord of lords.”
Um……… no………….. it actually DOESN'T prohibit anything of the sort. Here, I'll prove it to you:Kathi, is the Father a God of other gods? YES or NO?
Is the Father a Lord of other lords? YES or NO?
In the context of 1 Cor 8:6, the Father is the God of other gods but not the Lord of other lords…that is Jesus.You have proven nothing.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 26 2012,21:12) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 25 2012,12:29) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) 1. Judges 5:8 NASB ©
“New gods were chosen; Then war was in the gates. Not a shield or a spear was seen Among forty thousand in Israel.The new gods were Deborah and Barak.
The new 'gods' were not Deborah and Barak. Try again.
As curious as I am to know who YOU think those new gods were, I will just sidestep that verse, and offer you this one:Exodus 21:6
then his master must bring him to the judges, and he will bring him to the door or the doorposts, and his master will pierce his ear with an awl, and he shall serve him forever.The Hebrew says “bring him to ha’elohim” (the gods).
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 25 2012,12:29) Context will show you in Psalm 45 that this is a messianic prophecy and not addressed literally to a human king as 'the theos.' Hebrews 1:8 confirms this.
Opinions vary on that one, so I'll move on. To whom do you suppose Jesus referred using the word “gods” in John 10:34-35? Men? Or angels?Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 25 2012,12:29) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) 3. Psalm 82:1 NET ©
God stands in the assembly of El; in the midst of the gods he renders judgment.No mention of the 'gods' here as being angels.
Then who are these gods who assemble with God, Kathi?Some commentators suggest they are human judges and kings. Others suggest it refers to the divine council, made up of God and His angels. Which one do you pick?
Either way, you'll have to concede one of your claims, right?
Mike,
Exodus 21:6
then his master shall bring him to God, then he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him permanently.you asked:
Quote To whom do you suppose Jesus referred using the word “gods” in John 10:34-35? Men? Or angels? Neither.
Regarding Psa 82
1 God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
2 “How long will you judge unjustly
and show partiality to the wicked?you said:
Quote Then who are these gods who assemble with God, Kathi? Some commentators suggest they are human judges and kings. Others suggest it refers to the divine council, made up of God and His angels. Which one do you pick?
Well, I think that there is more possibility to a divine council of God and created divine beings that are not angels. I have not invested research in this area of created divine beings called elohim but you saw the video about the council of gods. What that speaker said is possible. Consider this verse:
Exodus 12:12 “On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn–both men and animals–and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD.
So, no I do not concede one of my claims. I do not believe that in Psa 82:1, the elohim are angels because they do not make judgements and I do not think they are men because what use would it be to tell them they are going to die like men?
Well, I believe that I have addressed everything so far. Let me know if I have missed something.
Mike,
For more on Psalm 82, go to this site and click on 'Jesus, John 10 and Psalm 82:'Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 27 2012,16:45) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 26 2012,19:56) What 3 scriptures. Please post them in one post.
I haven't got time for hunting right now.
t8,
The three scriptures that I have already shown you are:Heb 1:8
But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.For the Greek article, see:
http://interlinearbible.org/hebrews/1-8.htmActs 20:28
Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.For the Greek article, see:
http://interlinearbible.org/acts/20-28.htmJohn 20:28
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”For the Greek article, see:
http://interlinearbible.org/john/20-28.htm
thanks kathi. I will reply later as I can't reply in a matter of a few minutes. It is late now, but acknowledging that I have seen this.Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 27 2012,16:50) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 26 2012,20:01) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 26 2012,07:52) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 16 2012,15:26) t8-
Where does scripture say that the judges were theos?
Where have men been called theos?
Where are angels called theos?
I asked t8 this question in the quoted post and did not get an answer but scripture that do not specifically say that judges are theos, or men, or angels. He tried to tell me that satan was the god of this world and that the God of Israel is not…wow!Isn't the God of Israel the God of both the Jews and the Gentiles?
I actually replied to that question and I also don't remember saying the following:
“me that satan was the god of this world and that the God of Israel is not”.I actually said that Satan is the god of this world and YHWH is the God of the Earth.
I made a distinction between the world and the Earth.If you deny that Satan is the god of this world, then you are saying that YHWH s the God of this world. And that would be wrong.
YHWH is the God of this world. satan is not the god of this world.Also, I asked you this:
Where does scripture say that the judges were theos?
Where have men been called theos?
Where are angels called theos?You replied with verses that do not specifically say that judges were theos, or men were theos, or that angels were called theos. So you need to find other verses that do say this or change your views here. Implications are not acceptable because they are subjective.
Ke.
The scriptures I gave are very clear.I will compose that post again about Jesus saying “Ye are theos” when he was quoting “ye are elohim, ye are sons of the Most High”.
And the scripture that talks about angels being called gods.
But for now, I want to tell you that you are wrong about YHWH being the God of this world. It is Satan who is the ruler of this world. Have you not read where Satan offered Jesus the position to rule the kingdoms that were under his rule. He even said they were his and he could give them to whomever he wanted. (something like that, haven't got time to check).
It sounds to me that you are denying that Satan is the ruler of this world because you believe that YHWH is the ruler of this world. Is that correct?
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 26 2012,21:21) Being the Son of God equates Him with God the Father in nature and attributes.
And how about being the SERVANT of God? Does that also “equate” him with the God he serves?Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 26 2012,21:21) My point previously was that Jesus doesn't call Himself His own God but that doesn't mean that He is not our God also with the Father. Mary's God is the Father with the Son.
But if OUR God is truly “the Father with the Son”, then Jesus' God is really “the Father with the Son” – even though he “doesn't call himself his own God”, right?Does it make sense to you that Jesus IS his own God – even though he doesn't call himself his own God?
Too many rabbit trails, Kathi. Stick to what the scriptures DO say – not to the many imaginations of your own mind. What the scriptures DO say is that our God is also Jesus' God. If that God of Jesus is the Father, as the words in John 20:17 clearly imply, then the God of us is also the Father. And if the God of Jesus is the Father with no ifs, ands, or buts, then the God of us is also the Father with no ifs, ands, or buts.
So, as I see it, here are your two choices in the matter:
1. Jesus' God is the Father alone, and therefore our God is the Father alone.
2. Jesus really is his own God, even though he doesn't call himself his own God.
Which do you choose?
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 26 2012,21:21) But what you fail to see is that among being the Son, Servant, Mediator, Priest, Prophet, and Sacrificial Lamb of God, He is also Almighty God the Son.
Therefore he is also equally “God Amighty the Servant”, right? And “God Almighty the Priest”. And “God Almighty the Anointed one of God”. And “God Almighty the Sacrificial Lamb of God”. Do you agree with all of these titles as well as “God Almighty the Son”?Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 26 2012,21:21) The God of gods sent the Lord of lords into the world. The God of gods (the Father) part of the YHWH Echad sent the Lord of lords (the Son) part of the YHWH Echad into the world. Simple and scriptural. Surely you can admit that the God of gods sent the Lord of lords into the world, yes?
I do admit that the God of gods sent the Lord of lords into the world. I don't see any scriptural reason to add “the Father part of the YHWH Echad” or “the Son part of the YHWH Echad” – since these things aren't ever mentioned or taught in any scripture.But, not only did the God of gods send the Lord of lords into the world, God Most High sent his Servant Jesus into the world. Do you acknowledge that part of the equation?
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 26 2012,21:29) The disciples are not one with them as YHWH but one with them as the church.
I'm glad you've acknowledge that the disciples will be one with Jesus and his God.I'm not sure where you're coming up with the different meanings of “one with” though. What scriptural words in that passage are you using to decide that Jesus is “one with” his God in one particular way, and the disciples are “one with” their God in a different way?
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 26 2012,21:33) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 26 2012,20:46) Kathi, is the Father a Lord of other lords? YES or NO?
In the context of 1 Cor 8:6, the Father is the God of other gods but not the Lord of other lords…that is Jesus.You have proven nothing.
Could you answer the question for me?
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