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Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 01 2012,06:30) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 28 2012,20:50) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 27 2012,23:39) If the Father is the only true God, as you claim, the Son is the only true ____. Please fill in the blank, thanks!
“Son, Servant, Messiah, Prophet, and Lamb OF God”.
Thanks Mike,
Do you think that 'Lord' should be on that list?
“Lord” could be on that list, depending on the context. If a man was talking about his human “Lord”, or “Master” telling him to do something wrong, then I could see Paul or Peter saying, “Jesus is your only true Lord – do what he says instead”.On the other hand, if John was in heaven in his vision, and an angel had pointed to God Almighty and called Him “Lord”, then I couldn't imagine John saying, “What? Jesus is the only true Lord!”
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 01 2012,06:30) Also, you listed that Jesus is the one true son. Why would he be the one true son?
It is an EMPHATICAL statement – like saying Jehovah is the only true god, when we know from scripture there are others.My statement would not mean that all other sons were “false sons”, or “so-called sons”. It would simply be a way of placing Jesus HIGHER than all the other sons in existence. Sort of like saying, “Jeff Gordon is the only true professional driver out there!”.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 01 2012,15:53) You try too hard to make external doctrines out of things that are just mentions of things as they are.
Amen!Quote (t8 @ Nov. 01 2012,16:53) Kathi there are more than 2 powers in Heaven. The ultimate power is the Father.
He has made Jesus both Lord and Christ, thus the highest power under him.
We then likely have angels and Michael is likely the highest power in the angelic realm.
We also have 24 elders who we are not sure who they are. Some have suggested that they represent other worlds that are unfallen and we have 2 elders that represent all the Earth as it is written, making 12 worlds in that view.My point? That there are many powers and things that we are not aware of. If the universe is a big place, then what of all of creation?
Narrowing it all down to the highest 2 powers proves nothing of your doctrine.
God and angels is often mentioned together. What of that.
1 Timothy 5:21
“I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels”.A Trinity of powers?
Or just a mention of different powers?
You try too hard to make external doctrines out of things that are just mentions of things as they are.
t8,
How many 'powers' did Paul say are for us as God and Lord? Many or two?Mike,
I think this sums things up to show that Jesus is making Himself out to be the Son of God and therefore God with the Father:John 5
“I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does.”What God does, Jesus does. That is either blasphemy or Jesus is verifying that He is equally capable of doing everything that God does. Who can do that except God? Who can give eternal life except God.
If the Father has His own mind and will, then He would need to reveal His mind and will to the Son and He does reveal all that He does. What the Father does, the Son does.
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 01 2012,20:45) Mike,
I think this sums things up to show that Jesus is making Himself out to be the Son of God and therefore God with the Father:I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself……………
I enjoy your sense of humor, Kathi.
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 01 2012,20:45) ……Jesus is making Himself out to be the Son of God and therefore God……
Kathi, what sane person would even utter those words?
John is the SON OF Mary, and therefore Mary.
Bill is the SON OF the President, and therefore the President.
Clive is the SON OF the Queen of England, and therefore the Queen of England.
This calf is the SON OF that old, spotted bull on the ridge, and therefore is that old, spotted bull on the ridge.
Do any of those make sense, Kathi? If not, then why would you even imagine that what you said makes sense?
I am truly baffled each day by some of you people here.
I didn't say that He was making Himself out to be God 'the Father' but as Boditharta has enough sense to say, if Jesus is a literal son of God, that would make Him the same type as the Father…the God type. God the Father beget God the Son. Like begets like. Very God of very God. Light of Light.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2012,18:14) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 01 2012,06:30) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 28 2012,20:50) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 27 2012,23:39) If the Father is the only true God, as you claim, the Son is the only true ____. Please fill in the blank, thanks!
“Son, Servant, Messiah, Prophet, and Lamb OF God”.
Thanks Mike,
Do you think that 'Lord' should be on that list?
“Lord” could be on that list, depending on the context. If a man was talking about his human “Lord”, or “Master” telling him to do something wrong, then I could see Paul or Peter saying, “Jesus is your only true Lord – do what he says instead”.On the other hand, if John was in heaven in his vision, and an angel had pointed to God Almighty and called Him “Lord”, then I couldn't imagine John saying, “What? Jesus is the only true Lord!”
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 01 2012,06:30) Also, you listed that Jesus is the one true son. Why would he be the one true son?
It is an EMPHATICAL statement – like saying Jehovah is the only true god, when we know from scripture there are others.My statement would not mean that all other sons were “false sons”, or “so-called sons”. It would simply be a way of placing Jesus HIGHER than all the other sons in existence. Sort of like saying, “Jeff Gordon is the only true professional driver out there!”.
Is Jesus the Lord of YOUR life?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2012,21:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 01 2012,20:45) Mike,
I think this sums things up to show that Jesus is making Himself out to be the Son of God and therefore God with the Father:I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself……………
I enjoy your sense of humor, Kathi.
What God does, Jesus does.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2012,17:01) Kathi, what sane person would even utter those words?
Maybe an 'in' person?Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 02 2012,17:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2012,21:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 01 2012,20:45) Mike,
I think this sums things up to show that Jesus is making Himself out to be the Son of God and therefore God with the Father:I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself……………
I enjoy your sense of humor, Kathi.
What God does, Jesus does.
And what Jesus does, we should do to.
And we are not Jesus and Jesus is not God too.Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 02 2012,17:11) Is Jesus the Lord of YOUR life?
Yes. And his Father is my God.My Lord and my God.
Jesus is only Lord to you if He is not YHWH the Son who is the Lord of lords. Isn't that right, t8?
1 Cor 12:3
Because I inform you of this: there is no man who speaks by The Spirit of God and says, “Yeshua is damned”, neither can a man say, “Yeshua is THE LORD JEHOVAH”, except by The Spirit of Holiness.Quote (t8 @ Nov. 02 2012,00:43) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 02 2012,17:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2012,21:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 01 2012,20:45) Mike,
I think this sums things up to show that Jesus is making Himself out to be the Son of God and therefore God with the Father:I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself……………
I enjoy your sense of humor, Kathi.
What God does, Jesus does.
And what Jesus does, we should do to.
And we are not Jesus and Jesus is not God too.
t8,
you said 'should do'…why 'should' don't you do those supernatural things that Jesus did and does now?you said:
Quote And what Jesus does, we should do to. Do you think that you can create new types of beings…how about just one, or give eternal life to those in Christ, how about even one person? How many people have you commanded to be healed, btw? Have you ever turned water into wine just by having someone pour water into containers. Why don't you tell us the supernatural works you have done since you can do everything that Jesus can do. How about that walking on water thing, how many times have you done that? Do you ride on the clouds when you go to the office? How many people have you commanded to rise from the dead?
I would really like to hear about those supernatural acts that you have done since being such a devout Christian who is so much like Christ, you should be able to do. Don't forget to tell me how you fed 5000 people with a few loaves of bread and a couple of fish or something to the equivalent.
This should be interesting how much like Jesus you are by your works compared to His works. Don't be shy, it could really help your testimony here and we can all praise God for how much you are doing the same works or greater works than Christ.
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 02 2012,20:44) Jesus is only Lord to you if He is not YHWH the Son who is the Lord of lords. Isn't that right, t8? 1 Cor 12:3
Because I inform you of this: there is no man who speaks by The Spirit of God and says, “Yeshua is damned”, neither can a man say, “Yeshua is THE LORD JEHOVAH”, except by The Spirit of Holiness.
Remember what I said earlier Kathi. One lie requires a whole raft of more lies to support the first lie. And I also said how you are getting more ridiculous as time goes on.Yeshua is kurios. Not YHWH.
And if his lordship is given by God, then do we assume that he is also lord over the one that made him Lord.
Of course not Kathi.
Pharaoh made Joseph to be ruler over all his kingdom. Did that include the Pharaoh. I will let you answer that, as I have faith that you are still able to use some reason, even if you will not be honest about the outcome.
Acts 7:10
…he gave Joseph wisdom and enabled him to gain the goodwill of Pharaoh king of Egypt; so he made him ruler over Egypt and all his palace.Acts 2:36
“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”Yes I believe that Jesus Christ is Lord.
And we know that it was one higher than him that made him Lord and Christ, i.e., God.
We are not told that every tongue will confess that he is God.Philippians 2:10That in The Name of Yeshua, every knee shall bow, which is in Heaven and in The Earth and which is under The Earth, 11And every tongue shall confess that Yeshua The Messiah is THE LORD JEHOVAH to the glory of God his Father.
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