The Trinity Doctrine

[Ed J]

Hi Everyone,

The non-Trins see God as One…                         <– And Jesus as a smaller version of God

The Trins see God as three…                              <– An incomplete picture

    “From henceforth there shall be five in one house divided,
    three against two, and two against three.” (Luke 12:52)

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                                              (both ideas are correct!)
And here is “The Big Picture”:                                <– The complete picture

“And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth:” (Rev 21:16)
“And the altar shall be twelve cubits long, twelve broad, square in the four squares thereof.”  (Ezek 43:16)

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God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
(Trinity and non-Trinity, can both views be correct?)

[Richtuner]

mikeboll64,

Quote

Your first posts led me to believe that you are a Trinitarian, and that you aimed to support the Trinity Doctrine by claiming that man is comprised of three things, a soul, a spirit, and a body. Since then, not one person here has argued that man is NOT comprised of these three things – yet you still keep trying to teach this to us, as if we are disagreeing with you about it

Yes it was said I was incorrect first by terraricca ,

Quote

Quote Man is a triune being, Spirit, soul and body. God spoke, God breathed, and God formed. this is a opinion not the reality ,the same with ;God spoke, God breathed, and God formed,it should be God think ,then spoke with whom if he was alone ,being true means that you have considered all of the knowledge there is in scriptures not only what fit your opinions.

and t8,

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Quote (Richtuner @ Oct. 16 2012,04:56) Man is a triune being, Spirit, soul and body. And is the spirit, soul, and body all separate persons. No. This analogy is a fail then.

As stated before, I believe God created all things in Heaven and Earth, and everything is upheld by the Word of His power. Peter said the Word is more surer than than our eye witness of Jesus. God's Word is not challenged on the Old Testament writings because everyone believes God had enough control and power to move upon men who wrote the Old Testament. But when it comes to the New Testament with italic words and statements, all of a sudden God got blindsided with what man could not do or get away with when writing the Old Testament. There is a controversial issue with the origins of 1John 5:7. Some say it was not included at all and others said it was in some of the ms. but eventually it ended up in our Bible.
As I pointed out at the first, if it fits in with other teachings and actually enhances the understanding of God, why discount it? Nobody disputes the name Father, Word, (or some contend with Jesus) or the Holly Spirit.
My point, I believe God is ONE. I don't believe there are other Gods beside Him like the Greek mythology doctrine declares. I do believe God consist of 3 characters or ways to understand God and His ways.
First: He is Father, for there is no life that has ever or will ever exist that God did not create.
Second: God creates by His Word, or seed. Even Jesus said the the Word is seed and well as Peter.
Third: The active force, power, life, energy what ever you call it is the Holy Spirit. I Gen. chapter 1 before God spoke it stated that Holy Spirit move or hovered over the earth. Before any man could speak the Word of God it had to be by the Spirit in order to be valid. When the Angel spoke to Mary he said that the Holy Spirit would come upon her, or over shadow her. If you believe that it is the Word that gives conception you will see that it was not by the Spirit, but by the Word she conceived. With out the Spirit the Word is dormant.
Look at all the scriptures that talk about the Spirit coming upon man before he was to speak. The Word spoken by false Prophets were known when it did not come to pass.
Maybe I am one of the few that sees God with more understanding and clarity when I see God like this. I can't possibly see any facile in this. I do not diminish God in any way. Nor do I diminish Jesus or the Holy Spirit.
If someone thinks I am in some false teachings, then address these scripture and with others to bring more clarity so I can see it for myself.
Constantly harping on the Trinity and falsely accusing me will not minister anything, but strife and confusing answers.

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 26 2012,05:51)

Hi Everyone, The non-Trins see God as One…                         <– And Jesus as a smaller version of God The Trins see God as three…                              <– An incomplete picture     “From henceforth there shall be five in one house divided,     three against two, and two against three.” (Luke 12:52)                                               (both ideas are correct!) And here is “The Big Picture”:                                <– The complete picture “And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth:” (Rev 21:16) “And the altar shall be twelve cubits long, twelve broad, square in the four squares thereof.”  (Ezek 43:16) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Trinity and non-Trinity, can both views be correct?)

Hi Everyone,  A-N-D-  just incase you thought I was joking:

“Thou also, son of man, take thee a tile, and lay it before thee,
 and portray upon it the [HolyCity(117)], even [New Jerusalem].” (Ezek 4:1)

    “But when I speak with thee, I will open thy mouth,
    and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD;
    He that heareth, let him hear; and he that forbeareth, let
    him forbear: for they are a rebellious house.” (Ezekiel 3:27)

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Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

[Lightenup]

So Ed, God has 4 tiles now…if He gets one more does He get kicked out from HN?

Just kidding, I couldn't resist

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 26 2012,10:29)

7 + 60 + 2 = 69  weeks of years   (483 years) The command for Nehemiah to rebuild the wall around Jerusalem was given by Artaxerxes in 457 BC. [483 – 457BC = 26AD]  This means Jesus was born in 4 BC; because his ministry began at 30. “And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God  is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.” (Mark 1:15) The time was fulfilled at Jesus' baptism (26AD), making Jesus “The Christ,” fulfilling John 1:14. See Acts 10:38, John 1:14 (The Word(God) was made flesh), 1Tm.3:16, and 2Cor.5:19. 490 – 483 = 7  seven years or one prophetic week left. The final prophetic week is fulfilled by Jesus and his Apostles Jesus preached 3½ years and then was crucified, after his resurrection, Jesus' Apostles finish the week- (3½ years) completing the 490 year seven week prophecy. God gives us a sure word of prophecy, proving we can count on him. God bless Ed J

Hi Georgie,  (taken from here)

The funny thing about numbers is: NUMBERS don't lie.
(Remember 26AD – AD means in the year of “the Lord”)
Connecting up beautifully with my research. (Prob. 25:2)

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God gives us a sure word of prophecy, proving we can count on him.  

                       (26)יהוה = “GOD”(26)

Fact #1. GOD's NAME, [יהוה], Theomatically matching “GOD”=26!
Fact #2. The Short Form of God's Name, [יה], is pronounced “YÄ”=26.
Fact #3. Man being created in YHVH's Image is first mentioned in Gen.1:26.
Fact #4. “GOD”=26: matches the number of letters in the English alphabet, 26.
Fact #5. “God's”, the possessive form of GOD, the number of times written is 26.
Fact #6. “Spirit OF God”, the possessive phrase, the number of times written is 26.

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God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
(LINK to the thread THAT PROVES GOD’s EXISTENCE)

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 25 2012,12:23)

Kathi, The SON OF the Most High God cannot also be the Most High God UNLESS you believe in TWO Most High Gods. You do, so many things in scripture simply don't apply to you.  See, you have forsaken the most critical teaching of the Bible:  Yahweh your God is ONE. You point out that the Hebrew word “echad” can refer to a unity of more than one individual, who are one in purpose, or whatever.  Well, the English word “one” can also refer to a unity of more than one, as in, “my hope is that they be one with us, Father”.  Does this use of the word “one”, in ANY language, truly support your theory of TWO Almighty Gods? So then we point out all the times this ONE Most High God is referred to using singular pronouns, such as “HE” and “HIS”.  Or how He refers to Himself with words such as “I” and “ME”. What do you do at that point, Kathi?  Naturally, you find instances where the nation of Israel, as a whole, we metaphorically referred to as “he”.  There is no end to the lengths to which you will go to have your TWO Almighty Gods, and there is little we can do to stop you. I have shown you the Song of Moses and Lamb in Revelation, and how this song is OBVIOUSLY a song that Moses and the Lamb sing TO God Almighty.  What did you do at that point?  Naturally, you went searching for “scholars” who illogically claimed that this “Song OF Moses AND OF the Lamb” was a song Moses sings TO the Lamb.   See?  There is no end to it, and never will be – from the looks of it. I have shown you many scriptures in which Jesus is listed as someone OTHER THAN the God who created the heaven, the earth, and EVERYTHING in them.  These scriptures leave no other option than for Jesus, as someone OTHER THAN the One who created all things, to be one of the things created BY that One.  But what did you do at that point, Kathi?  That's right, you started trying to explain how our TWO different Almighty Gods are sometimes referred to separately, and that these verses list the Father as the Creator, but that it doesn't necessarily mean that Jesus is not ALSO the Creator.   There is simply no end to it, Kathi.  So now here you are, telling me to “try again”.  But for what purpose?  So you can ILLOGICALLY twist the sensible meaning of scripture into some nonsensical meaning that supports your two Almighty Gods? Sorry, but I've got better things to do.    I love you and will continue to pray that our ONE God helps you through HIS Son and HIS Holy Spirit to see the light.

The son of the Most High God, the Father, is the Most High God, the Son. Ta da! Easy! Simple! Fool proof!

I agree you should give up Truth of the YHWH Echad, the eternal unity, is fool proof!!

Maybe take up knitting

Love you too, that is why I am here…to help the skeptics.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Richtuner @ Oct. 26 2012,03:25)

You see this is my point. You still accuse me of something I don't believe. Calling people out and telling them they are false teachers and lairs and stumbling blocks when they clearly have stated something different means you have a problem with hearing or reading. You are fixated on the Trinity and look for any thing to keep it alive.

RT, here are a few facts.

1) Your first post is teaching all the Trinity stuff that we have demonstrated many times as to why these assumptions are false.

2) You use 1John5 whatever to back up your view even though you knew it was in italics. So I was correct in what I said.

3) People do not read every single post, so they might not be up to date.

4) If you have retracted any statements you made in the first post, then let me know. From what I have read so far, you taught that God is a Trinity which is THEM not HIM, you taught that even man is a pattern of God, composed of 3 parts even though man is not 3 persons, and you stated that God is 3, Father, Word, Spirit.

5) Not fixated on the Trinity. Haven't spoken about it for a long while till you started this post. I simply refute false teaching with scripture and your first post was definitely that. What did you expect people to do. Say well done, even though they knew this was wrong? Although our resident Binitarian just became a Trinitarian so might have refuted her Trinity bias recently too. So if people don't come here with false teaching, then I usually don't need to mention it. In other words I am simply responding which is completely understandable.

So if you have changed your mind, then just say so in a post directed at me and others, so I and others can be updated. Make it simple, as I often miss things in long posts.

If you haven't retracted anything, then what I say still stands.

And it would also help you if you read what I said, rather than let your emotions run wild. If you read my posts, I haven't said you are stumbling block, false teacher, etc. I have said your teaching was false if you said this or that and then you are a stumbling block if …. You need to read things carefully.

I could say that if you intentionally killed someone you would be a murderer and this would likely not offend you because you do not engage in this. If you are offended by what I say, then that should make you think.

If I offend you because I speak the truth, then you have a pride problem.

NOTE: read the last sentence properly before you respond in a similar fashion.

Thanks.

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 26 2012,11:25)

Although our resident Binitarian just became a Trinitarian so might have refuted her Trinity bias recently too.

What??? who became Trinitarian?

[Richtuner]

t8,

Quote

If I offend you because I speak the truth, then you have a pride problem.

OMG!!!!!
You offend the truth and the English language and the human race. Did I not say you are fixated? You keep coning back to the same thing. Saying the same thing.
How old are you? I have to be dealing with a child. Everybody I have talked with can get what I am saying and either see it or not, but you still have trouble getting it.
A person don't have to agree with me, but a least they understand where I am coming from, well expect you. You have to be on top and always right.
Well you are right in your own eyes and I guess that will have to do because even the Word cannot convince you. I do see that you are the type who will think they know all things and God can't tell them nothing. Nobody can say anything unless it is already in you.
What the Word of God came to you, or out of you?

[Proclaimer]

Richtuner, if you can't face what I said, then that is not my problem. I have only quoted scripture in response to your teaching. A reasonable thing to do.

Say what you like about me, but the scripture I gave you is a witness to you now and it is up to you as to what you do with these words.

I give you scripture and you give me criticism. I am only the messenger, so don't shoot the messenger.

[Richtuner]

t8, you haven't said much other than the same old thing trying to promote yourself as the only one that has truth.
The bible says not to cast your pearls before sine and not to suffer a fool.
I have no more to say to you about this post because you only hear what you want to hear.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 26 2012,17:28)

The son of the Most High God, the Father, is the Most High God, the Son. Ta da! Easy! Simple! Fool proof!

Fool proof?
No foolish.

Ta da?
What about 'to do'. You need 'to do' something with that post because:

“For us there is one God the Father.”
For you there are at least 2 gods, God the Father, and God the Son.

See how simple that is.

A fool proof way to show that you are not US.

Ta da. Ding ding. Round over.

The winner is the truth.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Richtuner @ Oct. 27 2012,14:26)

t8, you haven't said much other than the same old thing trying to promote yourself as the only one that has truth. The bible says not to cast your pearls before sine and not to suffer a fool. I have no more to say to you about this post because you only hear what you want to hear.

I gave you scripture. Up to you if you want to resist it.

You haven't said to me yet that you have rejected your first post, so those scriptures I gave still stand, no matter what you say to me.

Unless you admit publicly (here) that your teaching was wrong, those scriptures are there for reproof and correction. The ball is in your court, and will stay that way till you let yourself be corrected by those scriptures.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 26 2012,18:50)

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 26 2012,17:28) The son of the Most High God, the Father, is the Most High God, the Son. Ta da! Easy! Simple! Fool proof! Fool proof? No foolish. “For us there is one God the Father.” For you there are at least 2 gods, God the Father, and God the Son.

Not just two gods, but two MOST HIGH gods.  I don't really think that is possible, or it would negate the meaning of MOST High.

But there is nothing we will ever be able to do about Kathi's belief in two, completely different Almighty Gods – except for maybe roll our eyes, sigh, and pray for her.

I've tried using scriptures, but if a scripture says “black”, she just insists it REALLY MEANS “white” – if that's what it takes to support her imagined doctrine.

The funny thing is that Trinitarians actually believe in THREE Almighty Gods.  They just find a totally illogical and confusing way to describe three Gods, but still call them one God.

At least Kathi's being honest about the number of Almighty Gods she believes in.

[Lightenup]

t8,

Quote

“For us there is one God the Father.” For you there are at least 2 gods, God the Father, and God the Son.

I don't have two God the Fathers, I just have one God the Father also…who happens to be with one God the Son.

Mike,
Jesus can do EVERYTHING He sees the Almighty God the Father doing. How can one do that unless He is almighty also. Two who are theos, the YHWH Echad, one eternal unity together with their Spirit.

“Hear O Israel, the LORD [Yahweh] our God [Elohim; plural], the LORD [Yahweh] is One [echad; unity].”

For you two skeptics…How many theos are on the throne of God in this scripture:

Remembering that the Son is a theos…how many theos are on the throne in this verse:

Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb,

1) one
2) two

Also, to Mike and t8…what 'son' is higher than Jesus? If no son is higher than Jesus, then Jesus is the Most High Son, and since Jesus, the Most High Son is a theos, then Jesus is the Most High theos, the Son. Simple!

Now, since the Father is the Most High theos, 'the Father,' and Jesus is the Most High theos, 'the Son'…there are two Most High theos, one as Father and one as Son. That is all the theos we need to know and believe in for our eternal salvation.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 26 2012,22:50)

Mike, Jesus can do EVERYTHING He sees the Almighty God the Father doing. How can one do that unless He is almighty also.

What scripture says Jesus can do EVERYTHING the Father can do?

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 26 2012,22:50)

Remembering that the Son is a theos…how many theos are on the throne in this verse: Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, 1) one 2) two

Your question is flawed, because God has His own throne, and the Son, Servant, Lamb and Prophet of God has his own throne.  The river of life flows from TWO thrones – the throne of our one and only Almighty God, and the throne of His servant.

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 26 2012,22:50)

there are two Most High theos, one as Father and one as Son.

No Kathi.  Jesus is the SON OF the Most High Theos.  Scripture says so plain as day.

[terraricca]

Mike

I have to say it you have lots of patiences ,I give up on kathi dreams long ago,just like Paul give up on the. Jews

[Ed J]

Mike

I have to say it you have lots of patiences ,I give on kathi dreams long ago,just like Paul give up on the. Jews

What do you think of  [color=05706A]
The color you picked is TOO STRENUOUS on the eyes.
I tried to match the color the best I could, darkening it up a smidge.

[mikeboll64]

Pierre,

I'm still hopeful that Kathi's recent insanity is merely a temporary affliction.

Ed, I can't see any difference between the two colors.

[Ed J]

Hi Mike,

It's a smidge darker.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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