The Trinity Doctrine

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Quote (terraricca @ June 02 2011,20:58)

Mike

all those conflicts are there because they do not accept the scriptures as they are,
and they do not believe them .

Pierre

I know. And the worse part is that when we dig deep and find obscure scriptures to show them their errors, they resort to all kinds of nonsense that no sensible person should ever have to reply to.

“God Almighty” is now a secret word for “Godhead”?

God is less powerful without Jesus?

How does one even answer such nonsense?

I'm tired and aggitated right now, and afraid of what I might post, so I'll be back tomorrow.

peace to you my brother in Christ
I love you,
mike

June 3, 2011 at 5:57 am#247744

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2011,22:30)

Quote (terraricca @ June 02 2011,20:58)

Mike

all those conflicts are there because they do not accept the scriptures as they are,
and they do not believe them .

Pierre

I know. And the worse part is that when we dig deep and find obscure scriptures to show them their errors, they resort to all kinds of nonsense that no sensible person should ever have to reply to.

“God Almighty” is now a secret word for “Godhead”?

God is less powerful without Jesus?

How does one even answer such nonsense?

I'm tired and aggitated right now, and afraid of what I might post, so I'll be back tomorrow.

peace to you my brother in Christ
I love you,
mike

Mike

take a rest but stick to what is truth as of God,and do not go astray of it,this way you always will carry God blessing,

I pray so you may always find pleasure in Gods holy truth

they will bear there own blood on there head,

you doing a good work and present the word of God truthfully,

may the God of peace and our lord Jesus Christ be with you .

in Christ love

your brother

Pierre

June 3, 2011 at 6:04 am#247745

Participant

Mike

they do not realize that whatever we do ,we do it in front of all the angels and Christ now in heaven,for us that righteousness is so important and to be seen by the Lord being truthful ,he will surely give us the true support we need to overcome this world and enter soon in his kingdom of righteousness.

Pierre

June 3, 2011 at 9:46 pm#247792

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2011,23:30)

I know. And the worse part is that when we dig deep and find obscure scriptures to show them their errors, they resort to all kinds of nonsense that no sensible person should ever have to reply to.

LOL Mike

I just posted about 15 scriptures to prove that yours and JAs theory that for man to die does not mean he ceases to exist.

The Bible says the body without the Spirit is dead.

Are you guys going to show me how my understanding of those scriptures are wrong?

June 3, 2011 at 9:48 pm#247793

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 02 2011,20:33)

Quote (Istari @ June 03 2011,00:50)

Yes, SF, a VERY BRIGHT FUTURE – in fact SO BRIGHT he will disappear into OBLIVION.

It is clear that he made up EVERY LAST BIT OF HIS POST from desperation of knowing he is wrong in his assessment.

We have clashed swords before and he, WJ, has been on the losing side everytime – he is only trying his luck again – he's a sure one for cruising for a bruising!

He has not posted for a time because he spent that time trying to figure out HOW HE WAS GOING TO RESPOND… you notice he ignores anything that he CANNOT ANSWER and only picks the bits that he THINKS he can get away with.

Can you believe this guy has been posting ONLY CONCERNING TRINITY for OVER TWELVE YEARS and these are the best lame inaccurate outlandish twisted and distorted ideas he can muster – AND HE TEACHES these things to others in his Church – wow – poor parishioners!!!0

Hi Ja,

How did he “make it up”?
You made several direct points about Kieths Behavior lets investigate these points by using evidence.

1. “It is clear that he made up EVERY LAST BIT OF HIS POST from desperation of knowing he is wrong in his assessment.”

That doesnt seem so because he quoted scripture with some commentary and provided scriptures that contradict the idea you present.

2. “We have clashed swords before and he, WJ, has been on the losing side everytime – he is only trying his luck again – he's a sure one for cruising for a bruising!”

Who has been keeping score? And what arguements have you won that Kieth has not accepted? so I believe your statment is an opinion.

3.”He has not posted for a time because he spent that time trying to figure out HOW HE WAS GOING TO RESPOND… you notice he ignores anything that he CANNOT ANSWER and only picks the bits that he THINKS he can get away with.”

I honestly have not seen that from Kieth, and im not one to be biased. I have seen times where he would pitch the same “trick-question” that has been thrown at him, or refusing to answer a question that is clearly “bogus”. but other than that, he is known for his “everything in the speed of light” comments.
You however could provide evidence to see how your statement is true.

4. “Can you believe this guy has been posting ONLY CONCERNING TRINITY for OVER TWELVE YEARS and these are the best lame inaccurate outlandish twisted and distorted ideas he can muster – AND HE TEACHES these things to others in his Church – wow – poor parishioners!!!0”

Who could blame him? That is the hottest most popular topic on this forum. Without it it would be empty, and we all would not be here.
In second place comes the “non-prexisters”, and in third the “others” which basicaly consist of a lonely muslim/christian whatever and a athiest who is awesome lol.

Though of course I dont agree with the concept of Trinity.
Anyways, how come you havent negated his points?
He gives a logical and concise reply to your resolve that Jesus could not be God because God cannot die.

In other words, if you said the same nonsense to me, i would have replied the same way, but with a more youthful tone.

AGain, im Just Askin, and Sayin that this old guy gots a point, maybe you should reply to prove otherwise.

Thanks Dennison

Notice no one will take up the banner so to speak to refute my understanding of those scriptures?

“To be absent from the Body is to be present with the Lord” and that is scriptural!

Blessings!

Keith

June 3, 2011 at 9:54 pm#247794

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2011,20:58)

Quote (t8 @ June 01 2011,17:12)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 02 2011,04:01)

Hi All

I worship the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit for they are God!

Good to see you using the word “they”.
Don't forget to use the word “them” too.

Just don't use “Him” or “his”. That would be deceptive.

We use those words who believe that the Father is the one true God.

Thanks WJ.

Perhaps all here could pitch in and help Keith remember this?

Hi Mike

Yea and while you are at it make sure that when you say God showed you something that you say “they” showed me this or that unless you believe the Father speaks to you apart from Jesus and the Holy Spirit. That sword cuts both ways.

I will ask you the same question Mike…

Can you recieve anything from God without the three, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit?

So when you recieve anything from God you should say “They” did this or that, right?

Blow that straw man down.

June 3, 2011 at 10:06 pm#247795

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 04 2011,15:54)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2011,20:58)

Quote (t8 @ June 01 2011,17:12)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 02 2011,04:01)

Hi All

I worship the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit for they are God!

Good to see you using the word “they”.
Don't forget to use the word “them” too.

Just don't use “Him” or “his”. That would be deceptive.

We use those words who believe that the Father is the one true God.

Thanks WJ.

Perhaps all here could pitch in and help Keith remember this?

Hi Mike

I will ask you the same question Mike…

Can you recieve anything from God without the three, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit?

So when you recieve anything from God you should say “They” did this or that, right?

Blow that straw man down.

Quote

Can you receive anything from God without the three, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit?

IN THIS YOU ARE RIGHT ;but to worship them all you are wrong,

see,God as given Jesus the mandate to be the in between to all creation, and this as to be done with all what God as made him known (holy spirit )the way Jesus as to unfold all of the will of his father,to help Jesus in this God as put powers into or available to him ,

and it is in this way that we approach God through Jesus according to God s will (holy spirit )

Pierre

June 4, 2011 at 3:07 am#247802

Blocked

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2011,15:54)

Hi Mike

No Keith,

If GOD tells me something, then I will say that it came FROM God, THROUGH Jesus, the Spirit, and/or others. It did not come FROM “them”, but FROM “HIM”, through “them”.

Keith, read Rev 1 to learn the chain of command when receiving something from God. Who did John's revelation ORIGINATE with, Keith?

Now compare the Person the revelation originated with to the one who was the first of MANY MESSENGERS passing that message down the line.

Do you see it? The revelation came to John FROM only ONE source. That source is listed, not as “the Father”, but as “GOD”. And once again, Jesus is listed as someone OTHER THAN “GOD”, and is once again shown as a servant and angel (messenger) OF God.

Rethink your strategy Keith. Your current one is lacking and unscriptural. Also, will you call the “GOD” mentioned in Rev 1:1 a “THEY”? Because “GOD” is ALWAYS a “THEY”, are “they” not?

June 4, 2011 at 4:20 am#247804

Lightenup

Participant

Mike,
Context tells you if “God” refers to a particular person within the Godhead, whether the Father or the Son, or if it refers to the Godhead which consists of the Father with His Son and their Spirit.

Kathi

June 4, 2011 at 4:24 am#247806

Lightenup

Participant

Interesting how Job, after his flesh is destroyed by worms, will see God, while in his flesh.

Job 19:25-27

For I know that my Redeemer liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth. And though after my skin, worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another, though my reins be consumed within me.

June 4, 2011 at 4:55 am#247809

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 04 2011,15:46)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2011,23:30)

I know. And the worse part is that when we dig deep and find obscure scriptures to show them their errors, they resort to all kinds of nonsense that no sensible person should ever have to reply to.

LOL Mike

I just posted about 15 scriptures to prove that yours and JAs theory that for man to die does not mean he ceases to exist.

The Bible says the body without the Spirit is dead.

Are you guys going to show me how my understanding of those scriptures are wrong?

Quote

The Bible says the body without the Spirit is dead.

I have a question for you;as you say the body without spirit or soul is dead;right

what is dead mean in Christ words ;he say do not be afraid of those who only can kill the body but not the soul; so what it means to be dead or being dead ?

being dead in the body mean that you are no longer part of men's world,your soul has move on to a different location.

but if God destroys you body and soul ,you are totally not exiting.

so until the final judgement our soul will be in waiting for that day.

Pierre

June 4, 2011 at 5:19 pm#247837

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ June 03 2011,22:20)

Kathi

Oh I see. So then when many scriptures clearly list Jesus as someone other than God, you can say those scriptures refer to “God the Father”, although they only say “God”, right?

June 4, 2011 at 5:23 pm#247838

Blocked

Quote (Lightenup @ June 03 2011,22:24)

Interesting how Job, after his flesh is destroyed by worms, will see God, while in his flesh.

Job 19:25-27

Read what NETNotes says about Job 19:26, Kathi. It is not as cut and dry as you think.

June 4, 2011 at 5:32 pm#247839

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2011,22:07)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2011,15:54)

Hi Mike

No Keith,

If GOD tells me something, then I will say that it came FROM God, THROUGH Jesus, the Spirit, and/or others.

Hi Mike

Really? That’s funny, so you are saying every time you say “God did this” or “the Lord said that”, that you always clarify that it is from God through Jesus and the Spirit? We will see.

OOPs you forgot to explain that the chain of command is the three when you said…

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2011,22:07)

Keith, read Rev 1 to learn the chain of command when receiving something from God.

When you used the word “God” why didn't you say…

“Keith, read Rev 1 to learn the chain of command when receiving something from God, [through Jesus and the Holy Spirit]”.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2011,22:07)

It did not come FROM “them”, but FROM “HIM”, through “them”.

Again, when you can logically explain how something can “come through” someone “without coming from“ that same someone then you may have a point.

Remember Mike all things are in Jesus hands so that means “all things come from him” and by him all things consist. In fact it is through or by him we exist.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2011,22:07)

Keith, read Rev 1 to learn the chain of command when receiving something from God. Who did John's revelation ORIGINATE with, Keith?

Now compare the Person the revelation originated with to the one who was the first of MANY MESSENGERS passing that message down the line.

So why does it say it is the “Revelation of Jesus Christ” if it didn't belong to Jesus meaning he is the source?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2011,22:07)

Rethink your strategy Keith.

Ha Ha, It is yours that is lacking and contradicting!

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2011,22:07)

Also, will you call the “GOD” mentioned in Rev 1:1 a “THEY”? Because “GOD” is ALWAYS a “THEY”, are “they” not?

Sometimes just like I may refer to the “Bride of Christ” as a “she” even though at times I may refer to her as “they”.

You do get this don't you Mike?

June 4, 2011 at 6:16 pm#247845

Blocked

Revelation 1:1
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.

Keith, WHO is the ultimate source of John's revelation?

And is this “God” that John mentions a “THEY” or a “HE”?

June 4, 2011 at 6:21 pm#247847

Blocked

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 04 2011,11:32)

Again, when you can logically explain how something can “come through” someone “without coming from” that same someone then you may have a point.

Tertullian Against Praxeas, 9:
For the Father is the entire substance, but the Son is a derivation and portion of the whole, as he himself confesses, “My Father is greater than I.” In the Psalm his inferiority is described as being “a little lower than the angels.” Thus the Father is distinct from the Son, being greater than the Son, inasmuch as He who begets is one, and he who is begotten is another. He, too, who sends is one, and he who is sent is another, and He, again, who makes is one, and he through whom the thing is made is another.

This whole letter is just simple common sense, Keith. When are you going to get some? You act as if the words “from” and “through” mean the same thing. They don't.

June 4, 2011 at 8:15 pm#247864

Participant

Mike

it is impossible to someone holding to a lie (doctrine,s) to be able to see the truth of God,because what has it in common the truth and lie ? nothing

Pierre

June 4, 2011 at 8:24 pm#247866

Blocked

True Dat, Pierre. (Which is the young kid's way of saying “Amen!”)

June 6, 2011 at 7:53 pm#248055