The Trinity Doctrine

[Worshipping Jesus]

JA

What part of my post is unscriptural?

Or will it be just patronizing and ad hominems as it is your usual custom?

WJ

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2011,00:43)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 02 2011,14:38) Good post WJ! Your one bright old man, with a bright futureeee…..ehh well whatever years you got left Thanks Dennison. I will take that as a compliment “green horn”. WJ

Hi WJ,
itz all good homie, im to young to understand the terms from the old generations but i will just nod and smile.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 02 2011,15:01)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2011,00:43) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 02 2011,14:38) Good post WJ! Your one bright old man, with a bright futureeee…..ehh well whatever years you got left Thanks Dennison. I will take that as a compliment “green horn”. WJ Hi WJ, itz all good homie, im to young to understand the terms from the old generations but i will just nod and smile.

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 02 2011,14:33)

Quote (Istari @ June 01 2011,18:01) All this because you KNOW THAT A GOD CANNOT DIE – so you MUST SAY THAT JESUS DIDN'T DIE!! God is Spirit and the Spirit of Jesus did not die because he was the “Eternal life” that was with the Father in the beginning of all things. 1 John 1:1-3 Eternal life cannot die! Jesus said he was the Life! John 14:6 Jesus said he was the resurrection and the life. John 11:25 His soul was not left in hell and his flesh did not see corruption. Acts 2:31 Jesus said destroy this temple (his body) and I will raise it again in three days. John 2:19 Jesus also said no man takes his life from him but that he had the power to lay down his life and he had the power to take it up again. John 10:18 Jesus said he would be in the heart (center of the earth) for three days and three nights as Jonah was alive in the belly of the fish. Matt 12:40 Jesus said whosoever lives and believes in me will never die. Matt 12:40 (it is obvious Jesus is not speaking of physical death here) Jesus also said “fear not them that are able to kill the body but are not able to kill the soul”. Matt 10:28 (obviously death here is not what you say it is) Jesus also said the rich man was in hell in torments and pleading for water. Luke 16:20-28 (Jesus is not telling a story based on untruths but in fact Jesus mentions the name Lazarus and in all other parables he never mentions names. This is further proof that his story is real and not a fantasy based on false premises.) I could go on but the question is “how do you define death?”, because if death means to cease to exist then all the scriptures above and many more are useless. Did God destroy Jesus Spirit/soul when he gave up the ghost or did Jesus leave his body and descend into hell for 3 days as the scriptures proclaim? So once again, since Jesus Spirit is the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ. then God, the Word that was with God and was God, did not die. He was put to death in the flesh but not in the Spirit. His Spirit/soul lived on because he was/is the Eternal Life. WJ

Kuddos Keith! Well said

Kathi

[Istari]

Keith,
YOU KNOW YOU ARE PLAYING GAMES…

Stop your laughing at your own silliness – I can hear you now!

You know you spent time creating that list of misrepresentation – are you prepared for the consequences: he that laughs last laughs longest!

Keith, I'm not laughing now because I feel sorry for you – I tried to show you truth but even when you see it you force yourself to twist fallacy to create your own version of 'truth' which is not God's Truth.

I pity you, Keith, for you are a clever man – but only clever towards your own demise… May God rebuke you!

[Worshipping Jesus]

JA Is that it?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 02 2011,16:55)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 02 2011,14:33) Quote (Istari @ June 01 2011,18:01) All this because you KNOW THAT A GOD CANNOT DIE – so you MUST SAY THAT JESUS DIDN'T DIE!! God is Spirit and the Spirit of Jesus did not die because he was the “Eternal life” that was with the Father in the beginning of all things. 1 John 1:1-3 Eternal life cannot die! Jesus said he was the Life! John 14:6 Jesus said he was the resurrection and the life. John 11:25 His soul was not left in hell and his flesh did not see corruption. Acts 2:31 Jesus said destroy this temple (his body) and I will raise it again in three days. John 2:19 Jesus also said no man takes his life from him but that he had the power to lay down his life and he had the power to take it up again. John 10:18 Jesus said he would be in the heart (center of the earth) for three days and three nights as Jonah was alive in the belly of the fish. Matt 12:40 Jesus said whosoever lives and believes in me will never die. Matt 12:40 (it is obvious Jesus is not speaking of physical death here) Jesus also said “fear not them that are able to kill the body but are not able to kill the soul”. Matt 10:28 (obviously death here is not what you say it is) Jesus also said the rich man was in hell in torments and pleading for water. Luke 16:20-28 (Jesus is not telling a story based on untruths but in fact Jesus mentions the name Lazarus and in all other parables he never mentions names. This is further proof that his story is real and not a fantasy based on false premises.) I could go on but the question is “how do you define death?”, because if death means to cease to exist then all the scriptures above and many more are useless. Did God destroy Jesus Spirit/soul when he gave up the ghost or did Jesus leave his body and descend into hell for 3 days as the scriptures proclaim? So once again, since Jesus Spirit is the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ. then God, the Word that was with God and was God, did not die. He was put to death in the flesh but not in the Spirit. His Spirit/soul lived on because he was/is the Eternal Life. WJ Kuddos Keith!  Well said Kathi

Thanks!

WJ

[terraricca]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2011,12:44)

Quote (terraricca @ June 01 2011,18:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 02 2011,16:33) Peirre So I take that as a “No” you do not love Jesus with your whole heart, soul, mind, and strength? WJ WJ you now see how your conclusions are wrong and not guided by the holy spirit of truth , it is not no it is yes but in the arrangement of God ,not like you as a preference against Gods own command. Pierre Pierre All you had to do was say “Yes” I do love Jesus with my whole heart, soul, mind and strength. Instead you beat around the bush. Now since you confess that you give all your being to Jesus then how is that different than giving all you being to God? They are One Peirre and you can't have one without the other. BTW, Do you pray to Jesus and have fellowship with him? WJ

WJ

how could you have a relationship with Christ and believe he is God the father wen he says he is not ,secondly you teach the trinity what was never thought by Christ or his disciples not even in scriptures ,

so you assume that what you WJ believe is and Jesus as to accept it because you are one with him and is father and so you have the same glory than he as.you are a dreamer.

if you would be one with Jesus Christ you would teach the same spirit ,not the devil or the world spirit .

until you can show me that the scriptures say God is a TRINITY you have no stand,

and also show me were in scriptures it says ;worship Jesus Christ;

and show me in scriptures were it says ;God and Jesus and the holy spirit are three beings and are all gods in one;

I could not find it so show me the scriptures please

Pierre

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Istari @ June 03 2011,00:50)

Yes, SF, a VERY BRIGHT FUTURE – in fact SO BRIGHT he will disappear into OBLIVION. It is clear that he made up EVERY LAST BIT OF HIS POST from desperation of knowing he is wrong in his assessment. We have clashed swords before and he, WJ, has been on the losing side everytime – he is only trying his luck again – he's a sure one for cruising for a bruising! He has not posted for a time because he spent that time trying to figure out HOW HE WAS GOING TO RESPOND… you notice he ignores anything that he CANNOT ANSWER and only picks the bits that he THINKS he can get away with. Can you believe this guy has been posting ONLY CONCERNING TRINITY for OVER TWELVE YEARS and these are the best lame inaccurate outlandish twisted and distorted ideas he can muster – AND HE TEACHES these things to others in his Church – wow – poor parishioners!!!0

Hi Ja,

How did he “make it up”?
You made several direct points about Kieths Behavior lets investigate these points by using evidence.

1. “It is clear that he made up EVERY LAST BIT OF HIS POST from desperation of knowing he is wrong in his assessment.”

That doesnt seem so because he quoted scripture with some commentary and provided scriptures that contradict the idea you present.

2. “We have clashed swords before and he, WJ, has been on the losing side everytime – he is only trying his luck again – he's a sure one for cruising for a bruising!”

Who has been keeping score? And what arguements have you won that Kieth has not accepted? so I believe your statment is an opinion.

3.”He has not posted for a time because he spent that time trying to figure out HOW HE WAS GOING TO RESPOND… you notice he ignores anything that he CANNOT ANSWER and only picks the bits that he THINKS he can get away with.”

I honestly have not seen that from Kieth, and im not one to be biased. I have seen times where he would pitch the same “trick-question” that has been thrown at him, or refusing to answer a question that is clearly “bogus”. but other than that, he is known for his “everything in the speed of light” comments.
You however could provide evidence to see how your statement is true.

4. “Can you believe this guy has been posting ONLY CONCERNING TRINITY for OVER TWELVE YEARS and these are the best lame inaccurate outlandish twisted and distorted ideas he can muster – AND HE TEACHES these things to others in his Church – wow – poor parishioners!!!0”

Who could blame him? That is the hottest most popular topic on this forum. Without it it would be empty, and we all would not be here.
In second place comes the “non-prexisters”, and in third the “others” which basicaly consist of a lonely muslim/christian whatever and a athiest who is awesome lol.

Though of course I dont agree with the concept of Trinity.
Anyways, how come you havent negated his points?
He gives a logical and concise reply to your resolve that Jesus could not be God because God cannot die.

In other words, if you said the same nonsense to me, i would have replied the same way, but with a more youthful tone.

AGain, im Just Askin, and Sayin that this old guy gots a point, maybe you should reply to prove otherwise.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ June 01 2011,17:12)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 02 2011,04:01) Hi All I worship the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit for they are God!   WJ Good to see you using the word “they”. Don't forget to use the word “them” too. Just don't use “Him” or “his”. That would be deceptive. We use those words who believe that the Father is the one true God. Thanks WJ.

Perhaps all here could pitch in and help Keith remember this?  If you are discoursing with him and he mistakenly refers to God as a “He” or a “Him”, politely bring this apparent typo to his attention so that he can get used to accurately defining the Godhead he believes in by using the correct pronouns.

This should also apply to any scripture he quotes.  When Keith quotes a scripture that refers to our God as “He”, “His” or “Him”, we should remind Keith to change those words to a bracketed “They”, “Theirs” or “Them”, so that the scriptures will actually match his own understanding of his Godhead.

t8, you are clearly on to something here, and I think by constantly correcting our Trinitarian members, they will eventually get use to not only talking the talk, by walking the walk.

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 02 2011,13:33)

God is Spirit and the Spirit of Jesus did not die

Hi Keith,

I think Istari is saying what I've said to Kathi many times:  Jesus died EXACTLY the same way anybody has ever died since the beginning of the world.

OUR spirits don't die either, but return to the God who gave them, right?

Paul said that at one time, death DID have mastery over Jesus………..but no longer.  Paul said that since Jesus died and was raised, he cannot die again.  Paul said that Jesus tasted death for all of us.

Can you imagine saying those things about God Almighty, Keith?  “Death no longer has mastery over God”.   “Since God died, He cannot die again.”  “God tasted death for all of us.”

It's hard to even make the words come off the tongue, isn't it?

K and K, there is never any indication that Jesus died in a different way than anyone else ever died.  Anything you want to add to those facts is merely opinion and wishful thinking on your parts.

mike

[terraricca]

WJ

Quote

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 02 2011,04:01) Hi All I worship the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit for they are God! WJ

Jas 4:4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

Jas 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
Jas 1:18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth,

yes we recieve birth through the word of truth where his your truth and faith because it is not in scriptures,

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Mike,
Godhead is a singular noun, remember? The government is weak, not the government are weak.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 02 2011,19:33)

I honestly have not seen that from Kieth, and im not one to be biased.

   

D, look again at Keith's “award winning” scripture.  Does that scripture say that ANY soul at ANY time has ever died?  Only God can destroy a man's soul – has this happened to anyone yet?

The only difference between Jesus and most of those who died before him or since is that Jesus has already been raised.  You know we all will be raised eventually, right?

So tell me how the actual DEATH of Jesus is different?

Don't you people understand that the resurrection of Jesus was God's “proof” to us that there WILL BE a resurrection.  If Jesus didn't die like we all do, and then be raised from the same exact death we all die, where is OUR hope for the resurrection?

How can we be sure that WE will be raised if the firstborn from the dead didn't really die the same way we all do?

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 02 2011,20:10)

Mike, Godhead is a singular noun, remember?  The government is weak, not the government are weak.

And when you show me how “elohim” or “theos” mean “Godhead”, you'll have a point. Until then, we'll be here to help correct Keith and get him used to walking the walk.

[Lightenup]

Mike,

Quote

K and K, there is never any indication that Jesus died in a different way than anyone else ever died. Anything you want to add to those facts is merely opinion and wishful thinking on your parts.

There is every indication that Jesus had more to Him, since He existed as a being before He became man…true? This is not the case with any other man that died. That which pre-existed His flesh…what did they kill that part with, hmmm. They couldn't kill that part with a sword, whips or crucifixion. That only kills the body, just like every other man, it can only kill the body. Remember that Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise? Did that mean the thief did not die? No, the thief's body did die but not his spirit. Like Christ.

I have explained this many times to you.
Kathi

[Lightenup]

Mike,
How about 'Almighty God,' El Shaddai likely meaning Godhead. Take away one member who is 'of' the Father and you have a less mighty God.

It isn't hard.
Kathi

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 02 2011,20:34)

Mike, Quote K and K, there is never any indication that Jesus died in a different way than anyone else ever died.  Anything you want to add to those facts is merely opinion and wishful thinking on your parts. There is every indication that Jesus had more to Him, since He existed as a being before He became man…true?  This is not the case with any other man that died.  That which pre-existed His flesh…what did they kill that part with, hmmm.  They couldn't kill that part with a sword, whips or crucifixion.  That only kills the body, just like every other man, it can only kill the body.  Remember that Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise?  Did that mean the thief did not die?  No, the thief's body did die but not his spirit.  Like Christ. I have explained this many times to you. Kathi

Kathi,

Jesus was made into a human being. He was not “part spirit being, part human being” when he was on earth. The spirit being Jesus was transformed into a flesh and blood man, just like us. When that MAN died, Jesus ceased to exist – just like all of us. It is only when God reanimated his spirit that he began to live again.

You act as if “Spirit Jesus” existed in heaven as an “out of body” entity watching down on “Flesh Jesus” during his ministry………and that only “Flesh Jesus” died while “Spirit Jesus” lived on.

Jesus couldn't have been the firstborn FROM THE DEAD if Jesus wasn't fully DEAD. If his spirit lived on, and he is now ONLY spirit, then how is the new “Spirit Jesus” the “firstborn from the dead”? If ONLY his flesh died, then ONLY his flesh is the “firstborn from the dead”. Get it? I hope so, because I have explained this to YOU many times now.

peace,
mike

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2011,20:52)

Quote (Lightenup @ June 02 2011,20:34) Mike, Quote K and K, there is never any indication that Jesus died in a different way than anyone else ever died.  Anything you want to add to those facts is merely opinion and wishful thinking on your parts. There is every indication that Jesus had more to Him, since He existed as a being before He became man…true?  This is not the case with any other man that died.  That which pre-existed His flesh…what did they kill that part with, hmmm.  They couldn't kill that part with a sword, whips or crucifixion.  That only kills the body, just like every other man, it can only kill the body.  Remember that Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise?  Did that mean the thief did not die?  No, the thief's body did die but not his spirit.  Like Christ. I have explained this many times to you. Kathi Kathi, Jesus was made into a human being.  He was not “part spirit being, part human being” when he was on earth.  The spirit being Jesus was transformed into a flesh and blood man, just like us.  When that MAN died, Jesus ceased to exist – just like all of us.  It is only when God reanimated his spirit that he began to live again. You act as if “Spirit Jesus” existed in heaven as an “out of body” entity watching down on “Flesh Jesus” during his ministry………and that only “Flesh Jesus” died while “Spirit Jesus” lived on. Jesus couldn't have been the firstborn FROM THE DEAD if Jesus wasn't fully DEAD.  If his spirit lived on, and he is now ONLY spirit, then how is the new “Spirit Jesus” the “firstborn from the dead”?  If ONLY his flesh died, then ONLY his flesh is the “firstborn from the dead”.  Get it?  I hope so, because I have explained this to YOU many times now. peace, mike

Mike

all those conflicts are there because they do not accept the scriptures as they are,
and they do not believe them .

Pierre

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2011,21:52)

Quote (Lightenup @ June 02 2011,20:34) Mike, Quote K and K, there is never any indication that Jesus died in a different way than anyone else ever died.  Anything you want to add to those facts is merely opinion and wishful thinking on your parts. There is every indication that Jesus had more to Him, since He existed as a being before He became man…true?  This is not the case with any other man that died.  That which pre-existed His flesh…what did they kill that part with, hmmm.  They couldn't kill that part with a sword, whips or crucifixion.  That only kills the body, just like every other man, it can only kill the body.  Remember that Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise?  Did that mean the thief did not die?  No, the thief's body did die but not his spirit.  Like Christ. I have explained this many times to you. Kathi Kathi, Jesus was made into a human being.  He was not “part spirit being, part human being” when he was on earth.  The spirit being Jesus was transformed into a flesh and blood man, just like us.  When that MAN died, Jesus ceased to exist – just like all of us.  It is only when God reanimated his spirit that he began to live again. You act as if “Spirit Jesus” existed in heaven as an “out of body” entity watching down on “Flesh Jesus” during his ministry………and that only “Flesh Jesus” died while “Spirit Jesus” lived on. Jesus couldn't have been the firstborn FROM THE DEAD if Jesus wasn't fully DEAD.  If his spirit lived on, and he is now ONLY spirit, then how is the new “Spirit Jesus” the “firstborn from the dead”?  If ONLY his flesh died, then ONLY his flesh is the “firstborn from the dead”.  Get it?  I hope so, because I have explained this to YOU many times now. peace, mike

Oh, Mike, so you don't believe in the dual nature of Jesus Christ? Why would the Son have to pre-exist if He was just a man?

Kathi

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