The Trinity Doctrine

[karmarie]

Hi Anyone,

I spent the last years praying to Heavenly Father/Lord God through the son Jesus. (Jehovah Witness sort of prayer) sometimes I never knew who I was supposed to be speaking to its hard to explain. I prayed the other day 'Lord' and I caused no division in my mind but just simply Lord and it felt so real,

Any answers to this?

[Proclaimer]

Quote (davidbfun @ July 16 2010,17:58)

Quote (t8 @ July 13 2010,03:59) God the Father is an invisible spirit. He has a son who is the visible image of him. Beware of those who try to confuse and change this simple truth written in scripture. More often than not, they are blinded by their own pride. Hi t8, Is YHVH God, the Father? David

Yes.

He is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (karmarie @ July 18 2010,21:02)

Hi  Anyone, I spent the last years praying to Heavenly Father/Lord God through the son Jesus. (Jehovah Witness sort of prayer) sometimes I never knew who I was supposed to be speaking to its hard to explain. I prayed the other day 'Lord' and I caused no division in my mind but just simply Lord and it felt so real, Any answers to this?

LORD as in YHWH or Lord as in Kurios.

You see, they are two different words. One is ascribed to the Father and the other to the son.

[karmarie]

Quote (t8 @ July 18 2010,23:43)

Quote (karmarie @ July 18 2010,21:02) Hi  Anyone, I spent the last years praying to Heavenly Father/Lord God through the son Jesus. (Jehovah Witness sort of prayer) sometimes I never knew who I was supposed to be speaking to its hard to explain. I prayed the other day 'Lord' and I caused no division in my mind but just simply Lord and it felt so real, Any answers to this? LORD as in YHWH or Lord as in Kurios. You see, they are two different words. One is ascribed to the Father and the other to the son.

Hi T8,

I have no idea which, thats the thing, I just prayed -Lord- praying without any thought of two. Usually I would think of two seperate, The Father and the Son, but this time there was no division.

Its really hard to explain though.

[theodorej]

Quote (karmarie @ July 18 2010,22:15)

Quote (t8 @ July 18 2010,23:43) Quote (karmarie @ July 18 2010,21:02) Hi  Anyone, I spent the last years praying to Heavenly Father/Lord God through the son Jesus. (Jehovah Witness sort of prayer) sometimes I never knew who I was supposed to be speaking to its hard to explain. I prayed the other day 'Lord' and I caused no division in my mind but just simply Lord and it felt so real, Any answers to this? LORD as in YHWH or Lord as in Kurios. You see, they are two different words. One is ascribed to the Father and the other to the son. Hi T8, I have no idea which, thats the thing, I just prayed -Lord-  praying without any thought of two. Usually I would think of two seperate, The Father and the Son, but this time there was no division. Its really hard to explain though.

Greetings K….. Jesus taught us how to pray….We are to go before the Father with a contrite spirit and his name ask what we wish and if two or more do this it will be granted….The zinger is there are no time constraints as for God does things in his own time and the other is to be mindfull of what you are praying for…

[shimmer]

This is prayer with the Spirit within to LORD
Through Jesus with no conscious thought to division

[mikeboll64]

Hi Oxy,

You said:

Quote

He asks two questions. 1 Where shall I go from Your Spirit? 2 where shall I flee from Your presence? If they were one and the same, why would He mention both?

What if it said, “What can I do that you don't see?  What can I do that you don't know about?”

Would that mean God's eyes and His mind are two separate entities?

IMO, that verse further reenforces that God's Holy Spirit IS His “presence”.  The writer is listing one thing with two different words for effect, that's all.

mike

[Oxy]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 19 2010,06:07)

Hi Oxy, You said: Quote He asks two questions. 1 Where shall I go from Your Spirit? 2 where shall I flee from Your presence? If they were one and the same, why would He mention both? What if it said, “What can I do that you don't see?  What can I do that you don't know about?” Would that mean God's eyes and His mind are two separate entities? IMO, that verse further reenforces that God's Holy Spirit IS His “presence”.  The writer is listing one thing with two different words for effect, that's all. mike

You are entitled to think that. Enjoy.

[shimmer]

THEOPHILUS BISHOP OF ANTIOCH
Written Aproximatly 180 AD
To Autolycus, Book I

Chapter 3.
Nature of God.

You will say, then, to me, Do you, who see God, explain to me the appearance of God. Hear, O man. The appearance of God is ineffable and indescribable, and cannot be seen by eyes of flesh. For in glory He is incomprehensible, in greatness unfathomable, in height inconceivable, in power incomparable, in wisdom unrivalled, in goodness inimitable, in kindness unutterable. For if I say He is Light, I name but His own work; if I call Him Word, I name but His sovereignty; if I call Him Mind, I speak but of His wisdom; if I say He is Spirit, I speak of His breath; if I call Him Wisdom, I speak of His offspring; if I call Him Strength, I speak of His sway; if I call Him Power, I am mentioning His activity; if Providence, I but mention His goodness; if I call Him Kingdom, I but mention His glory; if I call Him Lord, I mention His being judge; if I call Him Judge, I speak of Him as being just; if I call Him Father, I speak of all things as being from Him; if I call Him Fire, I but mention His anger. You will say, then, to me, Is God angry? Yes; He is angry with those who act wickedly, but He is good, and kind, and merciful, to those who love and fear Him; for He is a chastener of the godly, and father of the righteous; but he is a judge and punisher of the impious.

———————————————-

Chapter 4.
Attributes of God.

And He is without beginning, because He is unbegotten; and He is unchangeable, because He is immortal. And he is called God on account of His having placed all things on security afforded by Himself; and on account of, for  means running, and moving, and being active, and nourishing, and foreseeing, and governing, and making all things alive. But he is Lord, because He rules over the universe; Father, because he is before all things; Fashioner and Maker, because He is creator and maker of the universe; the Highest, because of His being above all; and Almighty, because He Himself rules and embraces all. For the heights of heaven, and the depths of the abysses, and the ends of the earth, are in His hand, and there is no place of His rest. For the heavens are His work, the earth is His creation, the sea is His handiwork; man is His formation and His image; sun, moon, and stars are His elements, made for signs, and seasons, and days, and years, that they may serve and be slaves to man; and all things God has made out of things that were not into things that are, in order that through His works His greatness may be known and understood.

[shimmer]

Chapter 5.
The Invisible God Perceived Through His Works.

For as the soul in man is not seen, being invisible to men, but is perceived through the motion of the body, so God cannot indeed be seen by human eyes, but is beheld and perceived through His providence and works. For, in like manner, as any person, when he sees a ship on the sea rigged and in sail, and making for the harbour, will no doubt infer that there is a pilot in her who is steering her; so we must perceive that God is the governor [pilot] of the whole universe, though He be not visible to the eyes of the flesh, since He is incomprehensible. For if a man cannot look upon the sun, though it be a very small heavenly body, on account of its exceeding heat and power, how shall not a mortal man be much more unable to face the glory of God, which is unutterable? For as the pomegranate, with the rind containing it, has within it many cells and compartments which are separated by tissues, and has also many seeds dwelling in it, so the whole creation is contained by the spirit of God, and the containing spirit is along with the creation contained by the hand of God. As, therefore, the seed of the pomegranate, dwelling inside, cannot see what is outside the rind, itself being within; so neither can man, who along with the whole creation is enclosed by the hand of God, behold God.
————————–

Chapter 7.
We Shall See God When We Put on Immortality.

This is my God, the Lord of all, who alone stretched out the heaven, and established the breadth of the earth under it; who stirs the deep recesses of the sea, and makes its waves roar; who rules its power, and stills the tumult of its waves; who founded the earth upon the waters, and gave a spirit to nourish it; whose breath gives light to the whole, who, if He withdraw His breath, the whole will utterly fail. By Him you speak, O man; His breath you breathe yet Him you know not. And this is your condition, because of the blindness of your soul, and the hardness of your heart. But, if you will, you may be healed. Entrust yourself to the Physician, and He will couch the eyes of your soul and of your heart. Who is the Physician? God, who heals and makes alive through His word and wisdom. God by His own word and wisdom made all things; for by His word were the heavens made, and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth. Most excellent is His wisdom. By His wisdom God founded the earth; and by knowledge He prepared the heavens; and by understanding were the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the clouds poured out their dews. If you perceive these things, O man, living chastely, and holily, and righteously, you can see God. But before all let faith and the fear of God have rule in your heart, and then shall you understand these things.

[shimmer]

Sorry, I missed the point——

Theophilus to Autolycus Book II

You will say, then, to me: “You said that God ought not to be contained in a place, and how do you now say that He walked in Paradise? “Hear what I say. The God and Father, indeed, of all cannot be contained, and is not found in a place, for there is no place of His rest; but His Word, through whom He made all things, being His power and His wisdom, assuming the person of the Father and Lord of all, went to the garden in the person of God, and conversed with Adam. For the divine writing itself teaches us that Adam said that he had heard the voice. But what else is this voice but the Word of God, who is also His Son? Not as the poets and writers of myths talk of the sons of gods begotten from intercourse [with women], but as truth expounds, the Word, that always exists, residing within the heart of God. For before anything came into being He had Him as a counsellor, being His own mind and thought. But when God wished to make all that He determined on, He begot this Word, uttered, the first-born of all creation, not Himself being emptied of the Word [Reason], but having begotten Reason, and always conversing with His Reason. And hence the holy writings teach us, and all the spirit-bearing [inspired] men, one of whom, John, says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,” showing that at first God was alone, and the Word in Him. Then he says, “The Word was God; all things came into existence through Him; and apart from Him not one thing came into existence.” The Word, then, being God, and being naturally produced from God, whenever the Father of the universe wills, He sends Him to any place; and He, coming, is both heard and seen, being sent by Him, and is found in a place.

[NickHassan]

Hi Shimmer,
Reliance on the thoughts of carnal men leads off the path.

[Oxy]

How to kill a topic.. submit long post after long post.

[davidbfun]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2010,14:30)

Hi Shimmer, Reliance on the thoughts of carnal men leads off the path.

Yes Nick, and to confusion.

David

[davidbfun]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 10 2010,23:09)

Quote (Ed J @ July 09 2010,12:49) Hi Mike, How does 'your theory' square with these verses… Eph.4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Hi Ed, I don't understand.  Does that scripture say to you that God's Holy Spirit IS God Himself? mike

Hi all,

This quote is a perfect example of God (Elohim).  God is “ONE”:

Body AND Spirit.
Male AND Female (Gen 1:27)
YHVH AND Holy Spirit = Elohim (God).  

OR putting the information together:

YHVH is male and has a body.
Holy Spirit is female and is spirit.

God (Elohim) is not just YHVH or Holy Spirit but is the combination of the two.

God is not male and female AND son.  God says so. (Gen 1:26)
We are male and female just like God.

“Son” is a sub-category of male and is the offspring of a male and female (Elohim/God) and Jesus is the son of God and CANNOT be God whom he comes from.

He is either:  Son OF God  or God (the son) but not BOTH!

Son of God comes FROM God and is God-natured.
God, the Son is GOD! (Breaking the 1st Commandment)

Thus, Jesus' claim to being the son of God denies him being God and destroys the Trinity.

David

PS IF the Trinity Doctrine is false THEN the teachings built on this foundation are false.

[JustAskin]

Davidbfun,
You are still on with 'God is male and female'?
Whom are you trying to remonstrate with?
No one with sense is here disputing with you, or ever will because there is nothing to dispute.

However, if this leads you to disclaim the Trinity, then that at least is worthy, in a backwards kind of way.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (davidbfun @ July 21 2010,00:47)

Son of God comes FROM God and is God-natured. God, the Son is GOD! (Breaking the 1st Commandment) Thus, Jesus' claim to being the son of God denies him being God and destroys the Trinity. David PS IF the Trinity Doctrine is false THEN the teachings built on this foundation are false.

Amen to that.

mike

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 22 2010,20:16)

Quote (davidbfun @ July 21 2010,00:47) Son of God comes FROM God and is God-natured. God, the Son is GOD! (Breaking the 1st Commandment) Thus, Jesus' claim to being the son of God denies him being God and destroys the Trinity. David PS IF the Trinity Doctrine is false THEN the teachings built on this foundation are false. Amen to that. mike

Saying that the Son of God is not God is like saying the Son of man is not man!

Its a strawmans argument since the word “Theos” (God) does not classify identity, but a being that is in a metaphysical class of its own.

I am my Fathers son, but am I less “human” than my Father?

Jesus is the “Monogenes” (only of its kind) Son of God.

Therefore the Son is God like the Father.

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. John 1:1

Pretty simple actually!

WJ

[KangarooJack]

WorshippingJesus said to Mikeboll:

Quote

Its a strawmans argument since the word “Theos” (God) does not classify identity, but a being that is in a metaphysical class of its own. I am my Fathers son, but am I less “human” than my Father? Jesus is the “Monogenes” (only of its kind) Son of God.

the Roo

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
You mean Jesus CHRIST?

[Author]

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