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Hello All!
JustAskin and myself are having a debate about the Deity of Jesus in the “Preexistant thread”, so I brought it over here…
Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 26 2010,14:38) To say Yes or No:
“Yes” because it came out of his mouth
but
“No” are not HIS words, Jesus clearly states that they are the words that his Father gave him to speak
JALike I said you do not believe Jesus words were his words when he said they are.
Jesus is One with the Father but you deny this.
You also deny that the Father has spoken to us by Jesus in the last times. So again the Words Jesus speaks are both his and the Fathers and the Holy Spirits.
As far as your other question they are simply distractions.
Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 25 2010,06:14) Are we instructed to worship Christ or the Holy Spirit, or offer Sacred service to them? Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 25 2010,06:14) Are we instructed to 'Fear' Jesus and/or the Holy Spirit?
Are we instructed not too? You don’t have to worship him if you do not want to. What do you mean “sacred service”? We are Bond slaves of Jesus and his prisoner. So everything that we do for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is sacred including our worship to them!Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 25 2010,06:14) Are we instructed to 'Fear' Jesus and/or the Holy Spirit?
The Bible says Jesus will destroy the unbelievers with the brightness of his appearing.And then shall that Wicked be revealed, “whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 2 Thess 2:8
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Rev 19:15
Now compare with this…
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: “but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell“. Matt 10:28
We know that Jesus in the days of his flesh has been given all judgment, John 5:22, 27
And also…
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, “hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from THE WRATH OF THE LAMB: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?] Rev 6:15-17
I would say men should fear him wouldn’t you?
As far as the Holy Spirit, well there are also consequences for sinning against him also, if you don’t believe it then ask Ananias and Saphira…
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart “to lie to the Holy Ghost”, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. “And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost”: and **GREAT FEAR** came on all them that heard these things. Acts 5:3-5
And…
Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together “to tempt the Spirit of the Lord”? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. “Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost”: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. “AND GREAT FEAR CAME UPON ALL THE CHURCH, AND UPON AS MANY AS HEARD THESE THINGS”. Acts 5:9-11
So yes this is what we do…
Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may “serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear“: For our God is a consuming fire. Heb 12:28, 29
Now since Jesus is our “Only Master and Lord” (Jude 1:4, 5) and we are Bond slaves to him and prisoners of him. (Phm 1:1 – Rom 1:1) He is our husband and we are his bride. We are Jesus sheep who serve him with reverence and with Godly fear because all the fullness of Deity is in him, and the Father has committed all things into his hands including all judgment. Jesus said “without me you can't do anything” (John 15:5) So in serving our Lord Jesus with the help of the Holy Spirit that he has given to us, we are serving the “One True God”.
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us insight to know him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. “This one is the true God and eternal life“. 1 John 5:20
Now here are some questions for you…
- Are there three spoken of in the scriptures?
- Does the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit live in you?
- How is it that Jesus is the only Being in the Universe that is not at this time subject to the Father?
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 27 2010,12:28) Hello All! JustAskin and myself are having a debate about the Deity of Jesus in the “Preexistant thread”, so I brought it over here…
Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 26 2010,14:38) To say Yes or No:
“Yes” because it came out of his mouth
but
“No” are not HIS words, Jesus clearly states that they are the words that his Father gave him to speak
JALike I said you do not believe Jesus words were his words when he said they are.
Jesus is One with the Father but you deny this.
You also deny that the Father has spoken to us by Jesus in the last times. So again the Words Jesus speaks are both his and the Fathers and the Holy Spirits.
As far as your other question they are simply distractions.
Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 25 2010,06:14) Are we instructed to worship Christ or the Holy Spirit, or offer Sacred service to them? Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 25 2010,06:14) Are we instructed to 'Fear' Jesus and/or the Holy Spirit?
Are we instructed not too? You don’t have to worship him if you do not want to. What do you mean “sacred service”? We are Bond slaves of Jesus and his prisoner. So everything that we do for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is sacred including our worship to them!Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 25 2010,06:14) Are we instructed to 'Fear' Jesus and/or the Holy Spirit?
The Bible says Jesus will destroy the unbelievers with the brightness of his appearing.And then shall that Wicked be revealed, “whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 2 Thess 2:8
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Rev 19:15
Now compare with this…
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: “but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell“. Matt 10:28
We know that Jesus in the days of his flesh has been given all judgment, John 5:22, 27
And also…
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, “hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from THE WRATH OF THE LAMB: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?] Rev 6:15-17
I would say men should fear him wouldn’t you?
As far as the Holy Spirit, well there are also consequences for sinning against him also, if you don’t believe it then ask Ananias and Saphira…
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart “to lie to the Holy Ghost”, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. “And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost”: and **GREAT FEAR** came on all them that heard these things. Acts 5:3-5
And…
Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together “to tempt the Spirit of the Lord”? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. “Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost”: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. “AND GREAT FEAR CAME UPON ALL THE CHURCH, AND UPON AS MANY AS HEARD THESE THINGS”. Acts 5:9-11
So yes this is what we do…
Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may “serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear“: For our God is a consuming fire. Heb 12:28, 29
Now since Jesus is our “Only Master and Lord” (Jude 1:4, 5) and we are Bond slaves to him and prisoners of him. (Phm 1:1 – Rom 1:1) He is our husband and we are his bride. We are Jesus sheep who serve him with reverence and with Godly fear because all the fullness of Deity is in him, and the Father has committed all things into his hands including all judgment. Jesus said “without me you can't do anything” (John 15:5) So in serving our Lord Jesus with the help of the Holy Spirit that he has given to us, we are serving the “One True God”.
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us insight to know him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. “This one is the true God and eternal life“. 1 John 5:20
Now here are some questions for you…
- Are there three spoken of in the scriptures?
- Does the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit live in you?
- How is it that Jesus is the only Being in the Universe that is not at this time subject to the Father?
Blessings WJ
wj your question- Does the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit live in you?
———————————————————-
lets be totally true;unless you are have the truth in your heart and the interest of the kingdom above your own interest
and there are no lies coming out of you lips,and that you assemble at least with one other believer ,the scriptures says they are both with you in spirit.
now for the holy spirit to be in you ,you should ask God he is the one who distributed according to his will and needs,many have the spirit of truth but does not mean they have the holy spirit.
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 26 2010,21:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 27 2010,12:28) Hello All! JustAskin and myself are having a debate about the Deity of Jesus in the “Preexistant thread”, so I brought it over here…
[quote=JustAskin,Mar. 26 2010,14:38]To say Yes or No:
“Yes” because it came out of his mouth
but
“No” are not HIS words, Jesus clearly states that they are the words that his Father gave him to speak
JALike I said you do not believe Jesus words were his words when he said they are.
Jesus is One with the Father but you deny this.
You also deny that the Father has spoken to us by Jesus in the last times. So again the Words Jesus speaks are both his and the Fathers and the Holy Spirits.
As far as your other question they are simply distractions.
Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 25 2010,06:14) Are we instructed to worship Christ or the Holy Spirit, or offer Sacred service to them? Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 25 2010,06:14) Are we instructed to 'Fear' Jesus and/or the Holy Spirit?
Are we instructed not too? You don’t have to worship him if you do not want to. What do you mean “sacred service”? We are Bond slaves of Jesus and his prisoner. So everything that we do for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is sacred including our worship to them!Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 25 2010,06:14) Are we instructed to 'Fear' Jesus and/or the Holy Spirit?
The Bible says Jesus will destroy the unbelievers with the brightness of his appearing.And then shall that Wicked be revealed, “whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 2 Thess 2:8
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Rev 19:15
Now compare with this…
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: “but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell“. Matt 10:28
We know that Jesus in the days of his flesh has been given all judgment, John 5:22, 27
And also…
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, “hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from THE WRATH OF THE LAMB: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?] Rev 6:15-17
I would say men should fear him wouldn’t you?
As far as the Holy Spirit, well there are also consequences for sinning against him also, if you don’t believe it then ask Ananias and Saphira…
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart “to lie to the Holy Ghost”, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. “And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost”: and **GREAT FEAR** came on all them that heard these things. Acts 5:3-5
And…
Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together “to tempt the Spirit of the Lord”? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. “Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost”: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. “AND GREAT FEAR CAME UPON ALL THE CHURCH, AND UPON AS MANY AS HEARD THESE THINGS”. Acts 5:9-11
So yes this is what we do…
Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may “serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear“: For our God is a consuming fire. Heb 12:28, 29
Now since Jesus is our “Only Master and Lord” (Jude 1:4, 5) and we are Bond slaves to him and prisoners of him. (Phm 1:1 – Rom 1:1) He is our husband and we are his bride. We are Jesus sheep who serve him with reverence and with Godly fear because all the fullness of Deity is in him, and the Father has committed all things into his hands including all judgment. Jesus said “without me you can't do anything” (John 15:5) So in serving our Lord Jesus with the help of the Holy Spirit that he has given to us, we are serving the “One True God”.
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us insight to know him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. “This one is the true God and eternal life“. 1 John 5:20
Now here are some questions for you…
- Are there three spoken of in the scriptures?
- Does the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit live in you?
- How is it that Jesus is the only Being in the Universe that is not at this time subject to the Father?
Blessings WJ
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 26 2010,21:25) [and that you assemble at least with one other believer ,the scriptures says they are both with you in spirit.
TWhat Bible are you reading?
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize “THAT JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU–unless, of course, you fail the test“? 1 Cor 13:15
The scriptures also tell us if you do not have the Spirit of Christ you are none of his…
You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. “And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, HE DOES NOT BELONG TO CHRIST“. Rom 8:9
Examine yourself T and see if Jesus is in you! I know he is in me and I know that I am his!
WJ
Hi WJ,
The Spirit of God proceeds from God through Christ Jesus to his brothers.
If the Holy Spirit is in you Christ is in you.
The Lord is the Spirit.There is no trinity except in the minds of the deceived.
Bod,
“And I say to you that in the day when they are judged, men will have to give an account of every foolish word they have said.” (Matthew 12;36)
Jesus shed His blood for mankind.
Earlier I had disagreed and said I couldnt see why a sacrifice was needed?
I see it now. Scripture makes it clear. We cant always understand everything.“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.” (Isiah 55;8-9)I also believe Paul was a true Apostle.
It is through Paul the gospel was spread throughout the whole world!
Just had to clear that up.Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 27 2010,21:41) Bod, “And I say to you that in the day when they are judged, men will have to give an account of every foolish word they have said.” (Matthew 12;36)
Jesus shed His blood for mankind.
Earlier I had disagreed and said I couldnt see why a sacrifice was needed?
I see it now. Scripture makes it clear. We cant always understand everything.“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.” (Isiah 55;8-9)I also believe Paul was a true Apostle.
It is through Paul the gospel was spread throughout the whole world!
Just had to clear that up.
When God says that His ways are “Higher” it does not mean HE would do what HE condemned others for doing.ALLAH/God Almighty condemned human sacrifice for any reason.
So let's see what God Almighty was referring to:
First we see before Isaiah 55; 8-9 we see
6 Seek ye Jehovah, while He is found, Call ye Him, while He is near,
7 Forsake doth the wicked his way, And the man of iniquity his thoughts, And he returneth to Jehovah, and He pitieth him, And unto our God for He multiplieth to pardon.
and then after we see
11So is My word that goeth out of My mouth, It turneth not back unto Me empty, But hath done that which I desired, And prosperously effected that [for] which I sent it.
12For with joy ye go forth, And with peace ye are brought in, The mountains and the hills Break forth before you [with] singing, And all trees of the field clap the hand.
13Instead of the thorn come up doth fir, Instead of the brier come up doth myrtle, And it hath been to Jehovah for a name, For a sign age-during — it is not cut off!
Remember the Way of God is HIGHER than yours he spares those that serve HIM:
And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
Malachi 3:16-18Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Hebrews 5:6-8Jesus let an adultress off the hook even though he was “without sin” and could have cast the first stone himself.
The Abrahamic god allegedly killed Uzzah, who was really only trying to help.
Are these “higher ways”? Would the god / Jesus combo (whatever it supposedly is) not condemn OTHERS for carrying on in these ways?
Stuart
Revelations 5
6 Then I saw standing in the middle of the throne and of the four living creatures,
and in the middle of the elders, a Lamb that appeared to have been killed.
He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.7 Then he came and took the scroll from the right hand of the one who was seated on the throne,
8 and when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders threw themselves to the ground before the Lamb.
Each of them had a harp and golden bowls full of incense (which are the prayers of the saints).9 They were singing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals because you were killed,
and at the cost of your own blood you have purchased for God persons from every tribe, language, people, and nation.10 You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”
11 Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels in a circle around the throne, as well as the living creatures and the elders.
Their number was ten thousand times ten thousand – thousands times thousands –12 all of whom were singing in a loud voice: “Worthy is the lamb who was killed
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and praise!”13 Then I heard every creature – in heaven, on earth, under the earth, in the sea, and all that is in them – singing:
“To the one seated on the throne and to the Lamb be praise, honor, glory, and ruling power forever and ever!”14 And the four living creatures were saying “Amen,” and the elders threw themselves to the ground and worshiped.
Quote (torcha @ Mar. 19 2010,05:32) 10 And concerning the Holy Sprit, when Stephen had a view of heaven and saw the Father and Jesus at his right side where was the Holy Sprit?
Hi torcha,And why was Stephen able to see Jesus but only the glory of God? I have been asking, but so far, no Trinitarian answers.
You make good, common sense points. Anyone with a working brain at all can understand what you say, and what the Scriptures actually teach. That's why the Trinitarians have to employ “scholars” to chip away at the common sense and come up with nonsense about how “the Greek word says black, but in this instance, it really means white”.
Good post and welcome,
mikeQuote (Stu @ Mar. 28 2010,09:25) Jesus let an adultress off the hook even though he was “without sin” and could have cast the first stone himself. The Abrahamic god allegedly killed Uzzah, who was really only trying to help.
Are these “higher ways”? Would the god / Jesus combo (whatever it supposedly is) not condemn OTHERS for carrying on in these ways?
Stuart
Hi Stu, iv been thinking.
regarding the story of Uzzah, you need to start at the beginning.“And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;..
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,
for when you eat of it you will surely die.“(Genesis 2:16)===================================
“…they must not touch the holy things or they will die.“(Numbers 4;15)“..and the LORD said to Moses, “Tell Aaron your brother not to come at all times into the holy place within the veil,
before the mercy seat which is upon the ark, lest he die; for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.”(Lev. 16:1-2)When they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled.
The LORD's anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down
and he died there beside the ark of God
Then David was angry because the LORD's wrath had broken out against Uzzah, and to this day that place is called Perez Uzzah..(2 Samuel 6:6)====================================
“.. With the coming of dawn, the angels urged Lot, saying, “Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished.”
“Flee for your lives! Don't look back,
and don't stop anywhere in the plain! Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away!” (Genisis 19;17)
But Lot's wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.==================================
Its only fruit, its only touching something, its only looking back,
But God wants us to know that He means what He says
Because has a plan of eternal life.Sorry karmarie but that's bollocks. Humans have an ethical understanding, not just dogmatic adherence to rules. Why do we have the ethical sense we do, if just following rules is what we are supposed to do?
What was the universal, timeless principle upheld in the myth of your god killing a man who was only trying to help?
When humans do this kind of thing we try them in court, and a murder charge would apply regardless of the provocation of someone touching the accused's personal property, whether or not the intention was to help.
All I have ever been able to conclude from the story of Uzzah is that this god is a mindless bully that cannot stand being questioned. Just like most dictators.
This god supposedly gave humans curiosity, and yet will stop us knowing his ways, will turn a woman into salt because she exercised this “god-given” curiosity. It has made rules that it came to earth itself to pass on about forgiveness, yet cannot forgive humans for eating its magic fruit, which it put up as a temptation even though today christians ask it not to put up temptations, as in the prayer that the god itself asked us to say to it.
What a mental belief system!
Stuart
Stuart you said
Quote It has made rules that it came to earth itself to pass on about forgiveness, yet cannot forgive humans for eating its magic fruit, “God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life”
“For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.”
Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 29 2010,21:48) Stuart you said Quote It has made rules that it came to earth itself to pass on about forgiveness, yet cannot forgive humans for eating its magic fruit, “God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life”
Isn't his son sitting on a throne beside him right now?
Did God give his son or just take him back?Timothy
Quote (TimothyVI @ Mar. 30 2010,00:39) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 29 2010,21:48) Stuart you said Quote It has made rules that it came to earth itself to pass on about forgiveness, yet cannot forgive humans for eating its magic fruit, “God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life”
Isn't his son sitting on a throne beside him right now?
Did God give his son or just take him back?Timothy
Hi Tim. Sorry I dont understand your question?Stuart and Tim,
I hope iv got this right? I havent read the WHOLE Bible in context but I will give it a go;Uzzah was struck down by God,
DAVID WAS ANGRY AT GOD FOR DOING THAT
David was a Man after Gods own Heart.
David was given a throne.————————————
Abraham was tested by God and asked to sacrifice His own Son to prove His faith and love of God
God stopped Him before He did.
This was How God KNEW Abraham Had great Love and Faith even to give up His Son who He loved to show itBut then,
” God SO LOVED THE WHOLE WORLD that HE gave His only Son.”
He showed His own Faith and love for ALL OF US through this. His own Son was killed instead.And His own Son went down to the dead and brought them back -with Him.
—————————–Gods ways are higher than ours.
God is love.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 14 2010,09:30) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 14 2010,09:02) Where have I or Jack ever said… Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 13 2010,15:49)
The love of Jesus SURPASSED God's love?
Hi WJ,Are you kidding? Where Jack said it is in the post I sent you. Along with your approving comments.
And you must not be reading the same debate I am, brother. I am slowly getting Jack down to the heart of it all. That is where the truth is. And the truth shall set you free, my friend.
peace and love,
mike
Mike,You read my posts the way you read the Bible without any comprehension. I said that “if Jesus was not God, then His love surpassed the love of God.” But Jesus is God.
thinker
TO ALL:
Mikeboll said to WorshippingJesus:
Quote And you must not be reading the same debate I am, brother. I am slowly getting Jack down to the heart of it all. On March 30 Mike admitted that he cannot prove scripturally that Jesus was begotten before His creation.
“When was Jesus begotten? While I think it was from his very creation, I cannot Scripturally prove it.“
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….2;st=80
On March 31 Mike admitted that the Greek “arche” in reference to Jesus in Revelation 3:14 could be translated “ruler.”
“Now that I know more (thank you for that), I agree that in 3:14 it could be translated as “ruler”.”
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….2;st=80
But on March 26 he outright accused trinitarians of “doctoring the scriptures” for the last 1800 years and “flat out lying” about Revelation 3:14.
“My point to all this is that the Trinitarians have been doctoring the Scriptures and changing the meanings of clearly written Scriptures for 1800 years. Lately, they just keep getting more and more blatant about it. The NIV is the most prominent translation in America today, at least with the younger, post-King James readers, and they are flat out lying about Rev 3:14 and Col 1:15.”
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….2;st=70
Yet Mike says that he is slowly getting me down to the heart of it all.
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 14 2010,09:39) Mike You think that you have the truth like all the rest.
This debate has been going on for centuries and obviously the ant-Trinitarians are loosing the battle because truth does prevail. That is why most are blessed and saved through the Trinitarian Churches!
You have not proven any truth more than any other that have come here.
So get your head out of the clouds man!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,Shouldn't that tell you that there is 'some' underlying “Truth” to both sides: 'anti-non-Trinitarians'(Psalm 18:25-27) and 'non-Trinitarians'.
The “Truth” is that both sides are 'partially' correct (AKJV Luke 15:51-2 / Eph.2:16-22)! When are you going to realize this FACT; WJ?Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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