The Trinity Doctrine

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 16 2010,15:10)

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 16 2010,13:55)

But Ed if there is no forgivness of sins without the shedding of blood – as it says in Hebrews – then why was John baptising for the forgivness of sins? And also why was Jesus out with John both in agreement over this baptism, and speaking of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but Jesus was against the Pharisees who followed the other ways (the shedding of blood)

I know there is other older threads about that so I think I will read up on them. I just dont get it. Everything else I do. But I also havent read Pauls books- nor plan to anytime too soon?

Hi Karmarie,

That was a “shadow picture” of the “Gospel” of Jesus Christ!
“The death burial and resurrection”. How come you cannot see this?

Ed J

I know that is what I was taught when I was baptised too, but where in the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke or John) does it say this and that the shedding of blood was needed for forgivness of sins? I would really appretiate your help?

February 16, 2010 at 7:03 am#178309

Participant

Ok heres some more

http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
I know its a site against Jesus as the Messiah but it says what God thinks of human sacrifice.

———————————————————
A FULL EXPLANATION…
The Christian idea of the messiah is that Jesus was the blood sacrifice that saves everyone from his or her sin. But who, EXACTLY died on that cross?
If it was Jesus-the-god, then how can God die? If it was only Jesus-the-human, then all Christians have in the death of Jesus is a human sacrifice.

And what, EXACTLY does God say about human sacrifice in the TaNaCH?

In Deuteronomy, God calls Human sacrifice something that He hates, and an abomination to Him!
Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee;
and that thou inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
Thou shalt not do so unto the Eternal thy God: for every abomination to the Eternal, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods;
for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. [Deuteronomy 12:30-31]

In Jeremiah, God tells us that Human sacrifice is so horrible a concept to Him, that it did not even come into His mind!
Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods,
whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents;
They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind: Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Eternal, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but The Valley of Slaughter. [Jeremiah 19:4-6]

We see the same thing in Psalm 106 and in Ezekiel 16:
Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood. [Psalm 106:37-38]

Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured.
Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter? [Ezekiel 16:20]

And yet we are to then turn around and believe that God changed His mind, and required human sacrifice, and then it was the sacrifice of His own human son that God wanted? After telling the Jews to stay away from pagan practices, and pagan beliefs, God then changes His mind and says, “Okay, now go ahead and believe in a human sacrifice, just as these very pagans believe?”

February 16, 2010 at 10:19 am#178325

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 16 2010,13:27)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 16 2010,11:52)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 15 2010,14:39)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 15 2010,13:50)

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 15 2010,12:05)

Bod, from this conversation with you, I have become convinced that:

1) Jesus is The Son of God, unique and different, there at the beginning of creation and before any of us,
hidden but then revealed. Not just a Prophet.

2) The crucifixion happened, Jesus was murdered, Jesus rose again.
But just because that happened it is no excuse for us. I wont say “Im a sinner but its ok cause Jesus died for my sins” cause I dont see it like that. Instead I see it as Jesus stood the true test of faith with his life, temptations, teaching of God, obediance, submission, and death. He also told us to do the same. And if we also need to lose our life even if just to get the truth to whomever God leads us to.

Where does Islam come into all that for me? In alot of ways. I learn alot from the example of Islam. One example- prisoners in Guantonomo despite their treatment and torture they stay strong in their faith and are still seen submiting to God and praying. I could think of many other things. But I dont have the time:)

May ALLAH bless you and guide you!

Now you accept the FACT of the Crucifixion?

No, I don't need to accept the crucifixion to say “May God bless you and guide you”

I do want GOD to bless and guide Karmarie and any Believer

John 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, (this applies directly to you as well; BD!)
Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. (1John 2:22)
These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him;
for his hour (The Crucifixion) was not yet come. Then said Jesus again unto them,
I go my way, and ye shall seek me, AND YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS: whither I go, ye cannot come.

Hebrews 9:16 For where a “TESTAMENT”=117 is, there must also of necessity
be the death of the “TESTATOR”=151 (“Jesus Christ”=151 is this testator: WHO YOU REJECT).
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses
had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves
and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Moreover he sprinkled
with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. And almost all things
are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission(OF SINS).

Then No Part in The NEW “Testament“=117 for you!
PSALM 117 “is” [The Bible's Center], the “[smallest chapter]” of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

If blood is neccessary for the remission of sins then you are saying that the scriptures are incorrect when it says clearly:

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Mark 1:3-5

Luke 3:2-4 (King James Version)

2Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.

3And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Are these two examples wrong?

February 16, 2010 at 10:27 am#178326

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 16 2010,15:10)

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 16 2010,13:55)

I know there is other older threads about that so I think I will read up on them. I just dont get it. Everything else I do. But I also havent read Pauls books- nor plan to anytime too soon?

Hi Karmarie,

That was a “shadow picture” of the “Gospel” of Jesus Christ!
“The death burial and resurrection”. How come you cannot see this?

Ed J

Because Christ did not teach it was a shadow, do you really think John was being incinsere with people's lives telling them they were forgiven but not really?

Besides Jesus said he had finished the work God gave him well before the crucifiction event(God saved Jesus but most can't see)

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:3-5

If the cross was the most important aspect of Jesus being sent to us, why would Jesus say he is finished? He doesn't say I am about to finish, he says he IS finish

So even if he would have been crucified it would not be part of the work he had to finish according to him.

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:3-5

Is Jesus correct in this verse, that he was finished with THE WORK GOD gave him to do?

February 16, 2010 at 10:34 am#178328

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 16 2010,15:33)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 16 2010,12:58)

Mark 14 (King James Version)

25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

Now Jesus did not lie so who was on the cross that drank wine?

A jar full of sour wine was standing there. So they put a sponge full of the wine on a branch of hyssop and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the wine, he said, 'It is finished.' Then he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. (John 19:29-30; cf. Mt 27:48, Mk 15:36; NRSV)

This word, oxos in Greek, is translated as “vinegar” in the King James Version. Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (4th ed., 1901, rep. by Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, MI, 1977) defines it (Strong's word #3690) as follows:

. . . used in the NT for Latin 'posca,' i.e., the mixture of sour wine or vinegar and water which the Roman soldiers were accustomed to drink. (p. 449)

In fact, the Roman soldiers offered this drink to Jesus before the crucifixion, and He refused (Mt 27:34, Lk 23:36, Mk 15:23). But the interesting thing is that the best texts of Mt 27:34 have the NT word for “wine,” oinos (Strong's #3631), rather than oxos, thus strongly inferring that what Jesus was given on the cross was indeed wine, not vinegar. Likewise, even the KJV manuscripts (older and now outdated) have oinos at Mk 15:23:

And they gave him to drink wine [oinos] mingled with myrhh: but he received it not. (KJV)

Jesus refused this drink because it contained myrhh, which – combined with alcohol – would have had a narcotic effect. But he accepted this same drink without the myrhh on the cross, just before He died (John 19:29-30; cf. Mt 27:48, Mk 15:36). Some might still dispute that it was (or contained wine, with alcohol), but several modern translations render oxos at John 19:29-30, Mt 27:48, and Mk 15:36 as “wine,” “sour wine,” or similar description:

Also Jesus said to God:

Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Luke 22:41-43

So being that Jesus is not ignorant and is obedient who on the cross is saying this?:

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Matthew 27:45-47

No Bod, it was Jesus that was Crucified, and Jesus who cried out to God, not someone else!

The part I dont get is why there needs to be the shedding of blood for forgivness of sins.

Are you thinking that Jesus didn't trust God? After Jesus had said “Thy will be done” you believe he would then turn around and say God forsaked him? Think about it, he had recently said:

Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.
John 16:31-33

How do you reconcile the difference?

February 16, 2010 at 10:37 am#178329

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 16 2010,18:03)

Ok heres some more

http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
I know its a site against Jesus as the Messiah but it says what God thinks of human sacrifice.

And what, EXACTLY does God say about human sacrifice in the TaNaCH?

Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured.
Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter? [Ezekiel 16:20]

Yes, and what's more you are expected to believe that an obedient Son who begs not to be sacrificed gets sacrificed while screaming out WHY, WHY HAS THOU FORSAKEN ME

February 16, 2010 at 11:14 pm#178476

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 16 2010,21:27)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 16 2010,15:10)

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 16 2010,13:55)

I know there is other older threads about that so I think I will read up on them. I just dont get it. Everything else I do. But I also havent read Pauls books- nor plan to anytime too soon?

Hi Karmarie,

That was a “shadow picture” of the “Gospel” of Jesus Christ!
“The death burial and resurrection”. How come you cannot see this?

Ed J

Because Christ did not teach it was a shadow, do you really think John was being incinsere with people's lives telling them they were forgiven but not really?

Besides Jesus said he had finished the work God gave him well before the crucifiction event(God saved Jesus but most can't see)

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:3-5

If the cross was the most important aspect of Jesus being sent to us, why would Jesus say he is finished? He doesn't say I am about to finish, he says he IS finish

So even if he would have been crucified it would not be part of the work he had to finish according to him.

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:3-5

Is Jesus correct in this verse, that he was finished with THE WORK GOD gave him to do?

Good points.

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. (John 17:3)

Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to accomplish his work (John 4:34)

I have glorified you on the earth:I have finished the work which you gave me to do. (John 17:4)

February 16, 2010 at 11:15 pm#178477

Participant

Im learning how to use bold print!

February 16, 2010 at 11:20 pm#178480

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 16 2010,21:37)

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 16 2010,18:03)

Ok heres some more

http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
I know its a site against Jesus as the Messiah but it says what God thinks of human sacrifice.

And what, EXACTLY does God say about human sacrifice in the TaNaCH?

Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured.
Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter? [Ezekiel 16:20]

Yes, and what's more you are expected to believe that an obedient Son who begs not to be sacrificed gets sacrificed while screaming out WHY, WHY HAS THOU FORSAKEN ME

But if it was someone else on the cross how come he called out from the cross 'Why why has though forsaken me?

That doesnt make sense. It obviously was Jesus there calling out on the cross?

He was killed, but God saved him from the dead by raising him back up. Jesus also appeared afterwards showing his wounds!

February 16, 2010 at 11:23 pm#178482

Participant

I agree with you on the human sacrifice thing though, I see that alot different. I never could understand it anyway!
I just see it alot clearer now! Thanks.

February 16, 2010 at 11:37 pm#178488

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 16 2010,15:36)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 16 2010,15:10)

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 16 2010,13:55)

I know there is other older threads about that so I think I will read up on them. I just dont get it. Everything else I do. But I also havent read Pauls books- nor plan to anytime too soon?

Hi Karmarie,

That was a “shadow picture” of the “Gospel” of Jesus Christ !
“The death burial and resurrection”. How come you cannot see this?

Ed J

1) I know that is what I was taught when I was baptised too, but where in the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke or John) 2) does it say this and that the shedding of blood was needed for forgivness of sins? I would really appretiate your help?

Hi Karmarie,

1) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him
through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
hath he quickened(Made alive) together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us,
and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers,
he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat,
or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Let no man beguile you (like BD) of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels,
intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

2) Matt.26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Purpose of the NEW “Testament”…

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light,
and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins,
and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me (Jesus).

God bless
Ed J

February 16, 2010 at 11:44 pm#178490

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 16 2010,21:19)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 16 2010,13:27)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 16 2010,11:52)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 15 2010,14:39)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 15 2010,13:50)

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 15 2010,12:05)

Bod, from this conversation with you, I have become convinced that:

1) Jesus is The Son of God, unique and different, there at the beginning of creation and before any of us,
hidden but then revealed. Not just a Prophet.

May ALLAH bless you and guide you!

Now you accept the FACT of the Crucifixion?

No, I don't need to accept the crucifixion to say “May God bless you and guide you”

I do want GOD to bless and guide Karmarie and any Believer

Then No Part in The NEW “Testament“=117 for you!
PSALM 117 “is” [The Bible's Center], the “[smallest chapter]” of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

If blood is neccessary for the remission of sins then you are saying that the scriptures are incorrect when it says clearly:

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Mark 1:3-5

Luke 3:2-4 (King James Version)

2Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.

3And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Are these two examples wrong?

If you don't want to believe in the God (YHVH=63) of “The Bible”=63, nobody can make you.
But the 'book of fraud'=114 is 'only confusing your mind'; and getting you NOWHERE!

February 17, 2010 at 12:12 am#178497

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 17 2010,10:20)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 16 2010,21:37)

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 16 2010,18:03)

Ok heres some more

http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
I know its a site against Jesus as the Messiah but it says what God thinks of human sacrifice.

And what, EXACTLY does God say about human sacrifice in the TaNaCH?

Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured.
Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter? [Ezekiel 16:20]

Yes, and what's more you are expected to believe that an obedient Son who begs not to be sacrificed gets sacrificed while screaming out WHY, WHY HAS THOU FORSAKEN ME

But if it was someone else on the cross how come he called out from the cross 'Why why has though forsaken me?

That doesnt make sense. It obviously was Jesus there calling out on the cross?

He was killed, but God saved him from the dead by raising him back up. Jesus also appeared afterwards showing his wounds!

How could raising a sacrifice from the dead be a sacrifice at all?

If I tear up a dollar bill and then tape it back together and spend it, what sacrifice did I make?

Wouldn't a sacrifice be a permanent loss? When people gave the best of their flock to be sacrificed it was a real loss they NEVER regained use of that sacrifice.

God protects the truth so to me Jesus being recorded to say WHY has thou forsaken me was simply God's way of protecting the truth by those seeking to find the truth. If Jesus wanted to ask that question he would have said it in the garden but instead he showed perfect obedience saying “Thy will be done” so why would he then turn around and disrespect God by doubting HIM?

February 17, 2010 at 12:17 am#178500

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 17 2010,10:44)

If blood is neccessary for the remission of sins then you are saying that the scriptures are incorrect when it says clearly:

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Mark 1:3-5

Luke 3:2-4 (King James Version)

2Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.

3And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Are these two examples wrong?[/quote]
If you don't want to believe in the God (YHVH=63) of “The Bible”=63, nobody can make you.
But the 'book of fraud'=114 is 'only confusing your mind'; and getting you NOWHERE!

How come you didn't answer my question

Quote

If blood is neccessary for the remission of sins then you are saying that the scriptures are incorrect when it says clearly:

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Mark 1:3-5

Luke 3:2-4 (King James Version)

2Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.

3And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Are these two examples wrong?

If you cannot answer why call yourself a witness?

February 17, 2010 at 12:29 am#178502

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 17 2010,11:12)

Yes, and what's more you are expected to believe that an obedient Son who begs not to be sacrificed gets sacrificed while screaming out WHY, WHY HAS THOU FORSAKEN ME[/quote]
But if it was someone else on the cross how come he called out from the cross 'Why why has though forsaken me?

That doesnt make sense. It obviously was Jesus there calling out on the cross?

He was killed, but God saved him from the dead by raising him back up. Jesus also appeared afterwards showing his wounds![/quote]
How could raising a sacrifice from the dead be a sacrifice at all?

If I tear up a dollar bill and then tape it back together and spend it, what sacrifice did I make?

Wouldn't a sacrifice be a permanent loss? When people gave the best of their flock to be sacrificed it was a real loss they NEVER regained use of that sacrifice.

Im not saying Jesus was a sacrifice at all, this is where I disagree, but im saying Jesus was murdered as an innocent , he died, then was raised from the dead, thats alot different.
Its written all through the gospels- matt, mark, luke and john, that Jesus died but was risen from the dead.

February 17, 2010 at 12:42 am#178505

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 17 2010,11:17)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 17 2010,10:44)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 16 2010,21:19)

If blood is neccessary for the remission of sins then you are saying that the scriptures are incorrect when it says clearly:

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Mark 1:3-5

Luke 3:2-4 (King James Version)

2Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.

3And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Are these two examples wrong?

If you don't want to believe in the God (YHVH=63) of “The Bible”=63, nobody can make you.
But the 'book of fraud'=114 is 'only confusing your mind'; and getting you NOWHERE!

How come you didn't answer my question

Your question was already answered on the previous page (Page 38) last post!
You apparently either don't read or don't take seriously things that I write!
That's the same thing you do with the bible (as you do with my posts),
diminish or ignore what you don't agree with and bolster what you do?

That's why I don't respond to your every post, your goal is NOT to learn,
but merely to try to brainwash others into your faulty (NON-BIBLICAL) way of beliefs!

February 17, 2010 at 1:04 am#178508

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 17 2010,10:37)

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 16 2010,15:36)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 16 2010,15:10)

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 16 2010,13:55)

I know there is other older threads about that so I think I will read up on them. I just dont get it. Everything else I do. But I also havent read Pauls books- nor plan to anytime too soon?

Hi Karmarie,

That was a “shadow picture” of the “Gospel” of Jesus Christ !
“The death burial and resurrection”. How come you cannot see this?

Ed J

Hi Karmarie,

2) Matt.26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Purpose of the NEW “Testament”…

God bless
Ed J

But Ed that wasnt from any of the Gospels (Mat, mark, luke or John) but from; Pauls writtings.

Apart from ;

Matt.26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

In its full context:

26And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The blood of the new testement which is shed for many still doesnt say that Jesus was a blood sacrifice for anyones sins,
it could be about just the fact he was going to die.

Jesus says in John 6

43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered.
44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
47 I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.
48 I am the bread of life.
49 Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died.
50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die.
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. [This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?
62 What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!
63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

John 17;3
And this is life eternal, that they might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

February 17, 2010 at 1:09 am#178509

Participant

I only read the words of Jesus I dont read or confuse myself with all the other books thats the difference. Its like reading 4 accounts of one case, which all agree, without all the other opinions and stories and ideas, it keeps it simple.

February 17, 2010 at 1:34 am#178511