The Trinity Doctrine

[KangarooJack]

Gene said:

Quote

To All………..This whole thing is simple, the problem is Trinitarians do (NOT) Believe JESUS or GOD the FATHERS WORDS. They muddy the water and then take some scriptures they can twist and force the text to come out their way.

TO ALL:

It is Gene and his anti-trinitarian buddies who do not believe the Father. According to Hebrews 1:8 the Father calls the Son “God.”

Gene claims that the Father is His God but he rejects the Father's own testimony concerning His Son. Gene also rejects that Jesus Christ is Savior and Lord.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Mikeboll said:

Quote

But God is, “from everlasting to everlasting…” according to Moses in Psalm 90:2.  And Jesus is, “the firstborn of all creation.” (Colossians 1:15)

The word “firstborn” means in Hebrew thought meant “supreme.”

18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

It means that in all things Jesus is SUPREME. It has no reference to His having a beginning. What part of the word “supreme” do you not understand?

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
And does it also mean FIRSTBORN?

His God is greater than him.

[Ed J]

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 01 2010,20:33)

Ed     -Bodhitharta's God is your God-    Are you saying that what I feel about Muslim people is false?  It isnt. It never has been. Why would I be misled by The Lord when I put all of my trust in God? I have been warned against other things but this is not something I have ever been warned against. When I did ask in prayer about Islam, I was given the story of the obediant Rechabites. Jeremiah 35 . That was all.   I havent yet been led to actually become a Muslim. Like I say to you Ed, I like what you do, I get what you say, your posts get my attention. I like you. But it is the same God.

Hi Karmarie,

I'm not saying a lie can't lead to “The Truth”.
If someone (in a foreign country) only has the 'book of fraud'
and they (because of this book) seek further, they can find
“The Bible” and begin to learn the REAL “Truth”; separating
truth from preexisting lies. This is possible and has happened
over and over again.

But lies cannot further “Truth”! And that is what has happened
to brother BD. He has traded God's “Bible Truth” for satan's lies.
The only solution is for BD to repent.

1Cor.12:2-3 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto
'these dumb idols', even as ye were led. Wherefore I give you to
understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:
and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the HolySpirit.

BD refuses to call Jesus “Lord”! Read the bottom of his every Post.
He says repeatedly Jesus is not (Falsely) his “Owner”; “Lord” means “owner”.
Because he cannot say this is PROOF he doesn't have Jesus' Father(HolySpirit)!
That is your proof that my God is “HolySpirit”, while BD's god is satan.

I'm glad you Karmarie are just now beginning to see “The Truth” of my words.
I have NOT given up on BD. I have “only” given up on answering his every question.
This is because BD's questions are not based on learning from me, but only as a trap.

Luke 11:54 Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.

My God has given me much more wisdom than my enemy!
Here is a quote from me Forth Post down click here

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 15 2010,15:01)

Hi BD, If you are “truly” “serious” about this Bible study, than only ask me ONE question at a time; OK? If your goal is to try to 'trick' me into helping support your faulty beliefs, then you 'are' wasting our time? Because I will NOT give you information that can be used against me! Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

BD's questions are worded in such a way believing any answer
will only support his faulty beliefs. I will ignore these types of questions.

When he responds to others with lies is when I will respond.
Because I don't want others to mistakenly believe his lies are truth.

God bless you Karmarie.
Ed J

[Ed J]

Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 02 2010,01:13)

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 01 2010,03:33) Ed     -Bodhitharta's God is your God-   Karmarie, What if I came up to you and told you we both had the same father. When you asked me to describe “our father”, there were some common characteristics, but others were different. I said he was 6' 2″ while your father is 5' 10″. I said he had jet black hair (when younger) and your father had blonde hair. I said he spoke with an English accent, when you know your father has a flat Midwest American accent. Would you agree with me that we had the same father, knowing these differences? There are many differences between the described Muslim god and the Christian god. Why should anyone conclude they are the same god then? Unlike your father though, DNA testing cannot be done to prove the truth of the matter. And neither the god of Islam or the god of Christianity seem to be willing to clarify the situation. Heck, neither god seems to be able to reign in the confusion amongst their own personal followers!

Hi Kejonn,

I'm glad that you support “Truth”.

God bless
Ed J

[karmarie]

Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 02 2010,01:13)

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 01 2010,03:33) Ed     -Bodhitharta's God is your God-   Karmarie, What if I came up to you and told you we both had the same father. When you asked me to describe “our father”, there were some common characteristics, but others were different. I said he was 6' 2″ while your father is 5' 10″. I said he had jet black hair (when younger) and your father had blonde hair. I said he spoke with an English accent, when you know your father has a flat Midwest American accent. Would you agree with me that we had the same father, knowing these differences? There are many differences between the described Muslim god and the Christian god. Why should anyone conclude they are the same god then? Unlike your father though, DNA testing cannot be done to prove the truth of the matter. And neither the god of Islam or the god of Christianity seem to be willing to clarify the situation. Heck, neither god seems to be able to reign in the confusion amongst their own personal followers!

Kejonn, there is in the world Many people, all with different minds, upbringings, lifestyles, personalities, and most of what we learn is influenced by the environment we are brought up in.

If you were raised by a Muslim family in the Middle East, chances are, youd be a Muslim! Chances are if you were raised in a Christian family, you COULD grow up to be a Christian, but because theres more freedom in Christianity, you probably could also wonder off and find something else. See.

[karmarie]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 01 2010,23:57)

karmarie, people will believe what they want to believe. God is either the truth or he is not. He cannot be all those God's unless he is a contradiction. Even logic dictates that there can be only one truth. So I would say it boils down to two possibilities. 1) No one knows truth 2) the truth is known (most likely by those who are open to the truth). But it cannot be that all is the truth.

I would probably go with no-one knows the truth, Though they think they do, deep down everyone is still thinking about it. The most important thing is how strong we are, will it stand the test of time, or being tried in the 'fire'.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 01 2010,23:57)

karmarie, people will believe what they want to believe. God is either the truth or he is not. He cannot be all those God's unless he is a contradiction. Even logic dictates that there can be only one truth. So I would say it boils down to two possibilities. 1) No one knows truth 2) the truth is known (most likely by those who are open to the truth). But it cannot be that all is the truth.

That's not what she said, is it?

She said that there is no god but GOD. Is that not the truth according to The Holy Bible? God said no god was formed before HIM neither shall there be a god formed after HIM.

Do you believe Abraham taught his sons about two different gods, T8?

Did not both sons bear the mark(Circumcision) of the EVERLASTING COVENANT?

Then why do you suggest different from the TORAH and say “gods” you are in great error.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 02 2010,01:13)

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 01 2010,03:33) Ed     -Bodhitharta's God is your God-   Karmarie, What if I came up to you and told you we both had the same father. When you asked me to describe “our father”, there were some common characteristics, but others were different. I said he was 6' 2″ while your father is 5' 10″. I said he had jet black hair (when younger) and your father had blonde hair. I said he spoke with an English accent, when you know your father has a flat Midwest American accent. Would you agree with me that we had the same father, knowing these differences? There are many differences between the described Muslim god and the Christian god. Why should anyone conclude they are the same god then? Unlike your father though, DNA testing cannot be done to prove the truth of the matter. And neither the god of Islam or the god of Christianity seem to be willing to clarify the situation. Heck, neither god seems to be able to reign in the confusion amongst their own personal followers!

Your deceptive powers are great my friend but they are still no match for truth.

In your little story you are talking about physical identity but with God we are talking about Spiritual Identity so please tell me what The bible teaches about morality that the Quran does not teach.

Deception Over, repent!

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 02 2010,07:37)

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 01 2010,20:33) Ed     -Bodhitharta's God is your God-    Are you saying that what I feel about Muslim people is false?  It isnt. It never has been. Why would I be misled by The Lord when I put all of my trust in God? I have been warned against other things but this is not something I have ever been warned against. When I did ask in prayer about Islam, I was given the story of the obediant Rechabites. Jeremiah 35 . That was all.   I havent yet been led to actually become a Muslim. Like I say to you Ed, I like what you do, I get what you say, your posts get my attention. I like you. But it is the same God. Hi Karmarie, I'm not saying a lie can't lead to “The Truth”. If someone (in a foreign country) only has the 'book of fraud' and they (because of this book) seek further, they can find “The Bible” and begin to learn the REAL “Truth”; separating truth from preexisting lies. This is possible and has happened over and over again. But lies cannot further “Truth”! And that is what has happened to brother BD. He has traded God's “Bible Truth” for satan's lies. The only solution is for BD to repent. 1Cor.12:2-3 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto 'these dumb idols', even as ye were led. Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the HolySpirit. BD refuses to call Jesus “Lord”! Read the bottom of his every Post. He says repeatedly Jesus is not (Falsely) his “Owner”; “Lord” means “owner”. Because he cannot say this is PROOF he doesn't have Jesus' Father(HolySpirit)! That is your proof that my God is “HolySpirit”, while BD's god is satan. I'm glad you Karmarie are just now beginning to see “The Truth” of my words. I have NOT given up on BD. I have “only” given up on answering his every question. This is because BD's questions are not based on learning from me, but only as a trap. Luke 11:54 Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him. My God has given me much more wisdom than my enemy! Here is a quote from me Forth Post down click here Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 15 2010,15:01) Hi BD, If you are “truly” “serious” about this Bible study, than only ask me ONE question at a time; OK? If your goal is to try to 'trick' me into helping support your faulty beliefs, then you 'are' wasting our time? Because I will NOT give you information that can be used against me! Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org BD's questions are worded in such a way believing any answer will only support his faulty beliefs. I will ignore these types of questions. When he responds to others with lies is when I will respond. Because I don't want others to mistakenly believe his lies are truth. God bless you Karmarie. Ed J

So you think calling Jesus “lord” grants you salvation?

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:20-22

So whom do I call my Lord in the truest sense of the word?

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Genesis 2:6-8

Do you think it is wrong for me to call YHVH “LORD”?

So you say that Jesus is your lord and YHVH is your lord?

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Matthew 6:23-25

So either you are saying that Jesus is YHVH and you are not serving two masters(The trinitarians would agree)

or

Jesus is not YHVH and you are serving two masters

or

you take the Muslim position:

Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
John 15:14-16

How many Christians have not accepted this most important verse in which Jesus declares you relationship with OUR FATHER that he (Jesus) has done his part in delivering you to the Father and yet you have not gone through the door and become submitted to the only TRUE GOD.

Jesus even says he will not interceed or pray for you because the Father knows you and loves you Himself:

John 16:25-27 (King James Version)

25These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

26At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:[/U]

27For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

John 16:26 (English Standard Version)
26[B]In that day you will ask in my name, and I do not say to you that I will ask the Father on your behalf

If you believe in Jesus like you say you do then why have you not listened?

[kejonn]

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 01 2010,14:53)

Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 02 2010,01:13) Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 01 2010,03:33) Ed     -Bodhitharta's God is your God-   Karmarie, What if I came up to you and told you we both had the same father. When you asked me to describe “our father”, there were some common characteristics, but others were different. I said he was 6' 2″ while your father is 5' 10″. I said he had jet black hair (when younger) and your father had blonde hair. I said he spoke with an English accent, when you know your father has a flat Midwest American accent. Would you agree with me that we had the same father, knowing these differences? There are many differences between the described Muslim god and the Christian god. Why should anyone conclude they are the same god then? Unlike your father though, DNA testing cannot be done to prove the truth of the matter. And neither the god of Islam or the god of Christianity seem to be willing to clarify the situation. Heck, neither god seems to be able to reign in the confusion amongst their own personal followers! Kejonn, there is in the world Many people, all with different minds, upbringings, lifestyles, personalities, and most of what we learn is influenced by the environment we are brought up in. If you were raised by a Muslim family in the Middle East, chances are, youd be a Muslim! Chances are if you were raised in a Christian family, you COULD grow up to be a Christian, but because theres more freedom in Christianity, you probably could also wonder off and find something else. See.

Exactly! But that does mean the gods are the same, it means the people are different and have come up with their own view of what they want to call “god”.

[kejonn]

Meant to say “that does NOT mean the gods are the same”

[karmarie]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 02 2010,07:37)

Because he cannot say this is PROOF he doesn't have Jesus' Father(HolySpirit)! That is your proof that my God is “HolySpirit”, while BD's god is satan.

No-  I believe Bod does have the Holy Spirit and The Father, that is what leads Muslims to the truth of Jesus, it is the Spirit that leads all to the 'truth' which is what is happening! By the millions.

I also believe that the Remnant Jews like the ones whos links I provided (true Torah Jews) will be saved due to their compassion and love of their neighbour weather or not they come to accept Jesus as the Messiah. They also have the Spirit The Father.  

Jesus said the greatest commandment is to love The Lord God with all your heart and mind and soul and your neighbour as yourself, if this was the only piece of the bible we had to go on, it would be easy.

Jesus also said we would be judged on how we treat others,

Matthew 25

31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45“He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Notice this has to do with when Jesus returns which is the moment when everything is brought to light..

[karmarie]

Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 02 2010,09:33)

Meant to say “that does NOT mean the gods are the same”

You dont have editing rights?

[Anonymous]

KARMARIE, hello! Here is a very reliable Christian site, with all types of questions and answers about muslims beleifs. http://www.gotquestions.org, I think it probably has every thing you need to know. If you type in Muslim beleifs here is some of the titles you can click on ;
Muslim Questions – questions from Muslims and about Islam
Do the Qur’an and Muhammad affirm or reject the Bible? Should a Muslim read the Bible?
I am a Muslim, why should I consider becoming a Christian
Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God
Are there errors in the Qur'an (Koran
Bible Study for Muslims – Who is Jesus
There is 5 more pages of questions and answers. I so encourage you to read some of this site.

God Bless You… katjo

[karmarie]

Hi Katjo!

Thanks I will take a look.

[Ed J]

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 02 2010,09:51)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 02 2010,07:37) Because he cannot say this is PROOF he doesn't have Jesus' Father(HolySpirit)! That is your proof that my God is “HolySpirit”, while BD's god is satan. No-  I believe Bod does have the Holy Spirit and The Father, that is what leads Muslims to the truth of Jesus, it is the Spirit that leads all to the 'truth' which is what is happening! By the millions. Notice this has to do with when Jesus returns which is the moment when everything is brought to light..

Hi Karmarie,

First: You have two separate issues in this first paragraph. This part is true after I fixed the wording…
the Holy Spirit is The Father that leads Muslims to the truth of Jesus,
it's the HolySpirit that leads all to the 'truth' which is what is happening! By the millions.

This part is false, that's why I added NOT…
Bod does not have the Holy Spirit, The Father
BD rejects Jesus' Father as GOD and Jesus as “owner” (the meaning of Lord)!

Pentecost was Jesus second coming. People can have their own
personal Pentecost if they will look for Jesus as Lord without sin!

Heb:9:28: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look
   for him shall he appear the second time (Pentecost) without sin unto salvation.

Ed J

[karmarie]

[quote=Ed J,Feb. 02 2010,12:45]

Quote

First: You have two separate issues in this first paragraph. This part is true after I fixed the wording… the Holy Spirit is The Father that leads Muslims to the truth of Jesus, it's the HolySpirit that leads all to the 'truth' which is what is happening! By the millions.

Hi Ed!… I feel what you are saying about the Father being the Holy Spirit, I dont know if I can match it with scripture, I havent looked at it properly, but it does make alot of sense. I could agree with you there.

Quote

This part is false, that's why I added NOT… Bod does not have the Holy Spirit, The Father BD rejects Jesus' Father as GOD and Jesus as “owner” (the meaning of Lord)!

Disagree!

[Ed J]

Quote (karmarie @ Feb. 02 2010,12:59)

Hi Ed! Quote This part is false, that's why I added NOT… Bod does not have the Holy Spirit, The Father BD rejects Jesus' Father as GOD and Jesus as “owner” (the meaning of Lord)! Disagree!

Hi Karmarie,

Look for yourself at BD's last Post on Page 18!
BD refuses to say Jesus is Lord. The Proof is contained in this verse…

1Cor.12:2-3 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto
'these dumb idols', even as ye were led. Wherefore I give you to understand,
that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and
that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the HolySpirit.

This is PROOF the “HolySpirit” is NOT in Him! Further these verses apply to BD as well…

Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:
but unto him that blasphemeth against the HolySpirit(speaketh against the HolySpirit),
it shall not be forgiven him; neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Mathew 12:32

Instead of worshiping Jesus' Father(HolySpirit),
BD worships 'a dumb idol'(satan is a 'curse').
Prov:3:33: The 'curse'=66 of the LORD is in the house of the wicked:
but he blesseth the habitation of the just.

Don't let BD lead you away from “Bible Truth”=117 to his dumb idol(satan).
There is NO forgiveness of BD's sins until BD “Repents”!

[Anonymous]

acts4;11(Jesus) He is the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.(12) SALVATION IS FOUND IN NO ONE ELSE, FOR THERE IS NO OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN TO MEN BY WHICH WE MUST BE SAVED!!
YOU CANNOT HAVE THE FATHER WITHOUT THE SON! AND WITHOUT THE SON, YOU DO NOT HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT!

katjo

[Author]

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