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Hi S,
He was not our God.
The Father is his God and is ours.Jn20
17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.He was a man and God is not a man.
Acts 2
22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:God was in him as Spirit.
2Cor5
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.Men will try to confuse you in defence of their foolish doctrines but believe scripture.
God does not have a God.
Do as Jesus told us when he spoke not of himself but his God.Jn4
22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Hi S,.
Indeed the only begotten Son who was sent into the world [1Jn4] was before Abraham.
The Word was with God in the beginning.
He partook of flesh being born in the likeness of sinful man, humbling himself to share our estate.You cite Jn.1:1 'The Word (Jesus) was with God.' Completing the verse we read, “and the Word was God.”
I appreciate your efforts, but I am left to answer what the UCG article quoted is implying. Perhaps there is a balance of understanding being missed.
Quote (SEEKING @ Jan. 14 2009,08:13) You cite Jn.1:1 'The Word (Jesus) was with God.' Completing the verse we read, “and the Word was God.” I appreciate your efforts, but I am left to answer what the UCG article quoted is implying. Perhaps there is a balance of understanding being missed.
You are assuming that the term “wped” can literally be translated to “Jesus”. In over 400 times the term Word (logos in the Greek) does not refer to Christ. Why in a few verses in John is it forced to fit?Yes S,
God always throws in a challenge or two.
But it does not alter that fact that he has a God just as we do.Martian,
I don't believe I am “assuming” regarding Jn.1:1. I do not know of any scholars that do not accept that the “Word”
used ther refers to none other than Jesus.Hi S,
You will need to decide whether tradition has greater authority than scripture.
Scripture is the Word of God and Jesus is the Son of that God.Hi Seeking:
You quote the following scriptures which are misunderstand Jesus to say that he is the “I AM”. Let's take a look at the scriptures and see what he did say.
Quote Jhn 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Quote Jhn 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad. The Jews accused him of saying that he had seen Abraham, and that is not true. He said, “Abraham rejoiced to see my my day and he say it and was glad. God had promised Abraham that in Isaac his seed would be called, and he had promised him that his seed would be as that stars of heaven or as the grains of sand on the seashore, and he promised him that in him would all nations of the earth be blessed. Also, their was the experience with God testing Abraham asking him to sacrifice Isaac where God provided the ram for the sacrifice instead of letting Abraham go through with sacrificing his son.
Abraham died in faith believing God for these promises, and therefore, Jesus said that Abraham saw his day, and he saw it and was glad.
[QUOTE]Jhn 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Can you see that he did not say that he saw Abraham?
And then he said:
Quote Jhn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Jhn 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
He said before Abraham was he existed, but this is explained by the following scripture. He was saying that he was foreordained. God made every thing that he made with Jesus in mind.
Quote 1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
You also quote John 1:1 which states:
Quote Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. If the Word was with God, then the Word cannot be God in the sense that the doctrine of “trinity” teach. There is only “One God”. However Jesus is God in the following sense.
Quote Hbr 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Hbr 1:3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
He is the “experss image of God's person”. Jesus is the last Adam. God made man in his own image. Jesus also said the following:
Quote Jhn 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Jhn 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
God our Father has revealed to us who Jesus is in the following verses:
Quote Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? Mat 16:14 And they said, Some [say that thou art] John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
I hope that I have answered your questions. May God Bless you and your family.
Marty
Quote (SEEKING @ Jan. 14 2009,09:05) Martian, I don't believe I am “assuming” regarding Jn.1:1. I do not know of any scholars that do not accept that the “Word”
used ther refers to none other than Jesus.
Hi Seeking.
The correct translation of John1:1 and the correct sequence of words in the oldest available pieces of scripture is:
In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word.Blessings.
Quote (SEEKING @ Jan. 14 2009,09:05) Martian, I don't believe I am “assuming” regarding Jn.1:1. I do not know of any scholars that do not accept that the “Word”
used ther refers to none other than Jesus.
It is an unfortunate fact that many scholars do not use proper principles for inter[reting scripture. I know of several scholars that do not translate Word to Jesus.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 14 2009,09:22) Hi 94,
So if you are preordained and do not exist at all you are somehow before Abraham?
Hi Nick:He existed in the heart of the Father. In the fullness of time God would bring forth his Son made of a woman under the law, and He knew that Jesus would obey Him (His Word) even unto death on the cross.
This is my understanding. Do you have a better explanation?
Nick,
Jn.1:1 is not tradition, it is the word of God. Statements made in the UCB article, which you never addressed, assume to accurately relate the meaning of the word and not foster tradition.
To stand on ones tradition and continually quote the same proof texts is not a plague unique to Trinitarians.
I am quick to state that I do not endorse the Trinitarian concept. I am seeking a complete understanding rather than
just reciting scriptures that seem to support my position.It occurs to me that all denominations believe their interpretations as correct and that the Bible is the authority they use and not “tardition.” That the Word (written) has greater authority than tradition is not open for discussion. No decision to be made.
Martian – you write
It is an unfortunate fact that many scholars do not use proper principles for inter[reting scripture. I know of several scholars that do not translate Word to Jesus
Please help me with who these scholars are.
Ch The correct translation of John1:1 and the correct sequence of words in the oldest available pieces of scripture is:
In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word.Then is not the reverse true, “the word was God”?
Quote (SEEKING @ Jan. 14 2009,10:04) Nick, Jn.1:1 is not tradition, it is the word of God. Statements made in the UCB article, which you never addressed, assume to accurately relate the meaning of the word and not foster tradition.
To stand on ones tradition and continually quote the same proof texts is not a plague unique to Trinitarians.
I am quick to state that I do not endorse the Trinitarian concept. I am seeking a complete understanding rather than
just reciting scriptures that seem to support my position.It occurs to me that all denominations believe their interpretations as correct and that the Bible is the authority they use and not “tardition.” That the Word (written) has greater authority than tradition is not open for discussion. No decision to be made.
Hi S,
A challenge in view of 2Cor 13.1 proving truthHow many times does
“the word was God ” appear in scripture?How many times does
“the word was with God”?Nick,
How many times does, “In the beginning God created” appear in scripture? The challenge is totally invalid.
Deut.19:15 quoted in 2Cor.13:1 refers too the validity of human witnesses and has nothing to do with validating or invalidating the truth of scripture based on the frequency of appearance.
I want to thank all of you for your responses to my original inquiry:
I read in “Trinity Doctrine” that Jesus is NOT God. In another
UCG publication I read that He IS God and that those who
say we believe He is not misunderstand us. Cananyone
clarify please.I seek clarification regarding the statements made in two UCB publications. They seem opposites. Perhaps I need to seek for that answer elsewhere. In everything we have posted these statements would seem, at best, conflicting. Agreed?
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