The Trinity Doctrine

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January 17, 2008 at 12:21 pm#107320

acertainchap

Participant

John 17:3

3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

January 17, 2008 at 5:10 pm#107321

martian

Participant

WJ says
Seriously, Trinity aside, how can you view the image of the invisible God as anything less than God who has come in the flesh?

Response –
So according to your logic, if something is the image of the invisible God it is naturally God in the flesh?
Let me quote a few scriptures with attendent questions —
Genesis 1:27?God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
So did God create man as Gods in the flesh?

Genesis 9:6?” Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man.
Are all men Gods in the flesh?
1 Corinthians 11:7?For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
Is man God in the flesh?
Corinthians 3:18?But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
Are we being made into Gods in the flesh?
Col 3:9&10
9Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices,
10and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him—
Gods in the flesh again?

You continually ask the same questions even though they has been answered.

You ask how a “mere man” could be in all of us or be all in all ect? Try the context —

Eph 1
18I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
19and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might
20which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
21far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
22And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,
23which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

That is how he is all in all. Because God gave him all authority and power and dominion. The greatness of God’s power gave Jesus authority to do all the things you say a mere man cannot do.

1 Cor 15
20But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.
21For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.

So it was by a man came resurrection of the dead. Not God in the flesh or a God/man hybrid creature.

22For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
23But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,
24then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

So Christ’s reign (as He has now) over the kingdom is temporary.

26The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
27For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
28When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

All things were put into subjection under Christ’s feet except God himself. When death is overcome Christ places himself under subjection to God the Father so that then God may be all in all. Christ is all in all now until death is overcome. The kingdom and all that is in it is under Christ’s control. He is made head of the church with authority and capability to deal with them.

Christ has been given all authority. That includes the authority to hear and speak to all man. The authority to be in all men.

All the following scriptures are after Christ’s resurrection and the simple answer suffices. CHRIST WAS GIVEN AUTHORITY OVER HEAVEN AND EARTH. OVER THE ENTIRE KINGDOM.

Eph 1:23
which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Col 3:11
Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

Col 1:17
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Heb 1:3
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Math 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Matt 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jn 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

2 Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

January 17, 2008 at 6:01 pm#107322

martian

Participant

WJ,
A few questions —
How much authority is “ALL” authority? Does it mean all authority except the authority to speak to all men or dwell with all men? Can you show me a scripture that states that all authority is not all authority?
Can you show me a scripture that details the authority or abilities Christ has now with the entire kingdom subject to him?

Any man can do anything IF God gives him the authority to do it. This in no way makes this man a God. It simply makes him a man with given authority.

5And when Jesus entered Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, imploring Him,
6and saying, “Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, fearfully tormented.”
7Jesus said to him, “I will come and heal him.”
8But the centurion said, “Lord, I am not worthy for You to come under my roof, but just say the word, and my servant will be healed.
9″For I also am a man under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to this one, 'Go!' and he goes, and to another, 'Come!' and he comes, and to my slave, 'Do this!' and he does it.”
10Now when Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those who were following, “Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith with anyone in Israel.

For I am also a man under authority. The word under is huperairo in Greek and means lifted above or raised over. In this case it is comparing Christ “also a man” was lifted up and given authority just as the Centurion was raised up and given authority. The “man” Christ was given authority. Jesus then give the Centurion praise for understanding that Christ the man had the authority to act. The Centurion got it when Israel did not.

You assume that Christ must be omnipresent to be in all men. Is Christ in all men? Even the unsaved? If not then Christ is not omnipresent and yet dwells in the hearts of all “believers.”

None of us (including you) have a clue as to what Christ’s capabilities are at this time. All we know are the details of scripture. Those scriptures say that ALL authority is given to him. Given to him from someone else. (YHWH/Elohim)
We know that the entire kingdom is subject to him. The Greek word for subjection is Hupotasso and means —
to arrange under, to subordinate
to subject, put in subjection
to subject one's self, obey
to submit to one's control
to yield to one's admonition or advice
to obey, be subject
A Greek military term meaning “to arrange [troop divisions] in a military fashion under the command of a leader”. In non-military use, it was “a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden”.

So the entire kingdom is under the control of the man Jesus. Everything in the kingdom. Materials, man, and all workings that lie within the kingdom.

January 17, 2008 at 7:19 pm#107323

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

martian

I will answer your questions. Problem is when there are so many coming at me I have to limit my post.

Ron and I have been exchanging post. I dont mean to be rude, but usually when two poeple are going at it then most of the time others watch and listen and maybe make a few comments here and there.

But flooding the thread with long post while dialogue is going on between two people seems a little rude to me.

You were silent for a while and then you came in and started blasting the thread after Ron and I started.

Of course I am not trying to dictate how things should be it just seems like a matter of courtesy to me especially when our dialogue gets lost in a bunch of post which may be related or may not.

Its one thing to comment with opinion or asking a question.

Its another thing to blast long post demanding answers to many questions.

Sorry, just the way I see it.

As I said I will answer your questions, however I am compelled to answer Ron at this time.

Blessings

Worshipping and serving Jesus with my whole heart!

January 17, 2008 at 7:59 pm#107324

martian

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 18 2008,06:19)

martian

I will answer your questions. Problem is when there are so many coming at me I have to limit my post.

Ron and I have been exchanging post. I dont mean to be rude, but usually when two poeple are going at it then most of the time others watch and listen and maybe make a few comments here and there.

But flooding the thread with long post while dialogue is going on between two people seems a little rude to me.

You were silent for a while and then you came in and started blasting the thread after Ron and I started.

Of course I am not trying to dictate how things should be it just seems like a matter of courtesy to me especially when our dialogue gets lost in a bunch of post which may be related or may not.

Its one thing to comment with opinion or asking a question.

Its another thing to blast long post demanding answers to many questions.

Sorry, just the way I see it.

As I said I will answer your questions, however I am compelled to answer Ron at this time.

Blessings

Worshipping and serving Jesus with my whole heart!

I am in no hurry. We just post at different times. I do so usually in the morning and do not see you on till afternoon or evening. Makes direct dialog difficult.

January 17, 2008 at 8:50 pm#107325

ronday888

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 17 2008,12:25)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2008,14:04)

Here Ill use your litterall translation…

John 1:3

panta di autou egeneto kai chwris autou

ALL (THINGS) THROUGH HIM CAME TO BE, AND APART FROM HIM

3956 1223 0846_3 1096 2532 5565 0846_3

egeneto oude hen

CAME TO BE NOT BUT ONE (THING).

1096 3761 1520

ho gegonen

WHICH HAS COME TO BE

3739 1096

Notice the…

AND APART FROM HIM

3956 1223 0846_3 1096 2532 5565 0846_3

egeneto oude hen

CAME TO BE NOT BUT ONE (THING).

1096 3761 1520

ho gegonen

WHICH HAS COME TO BE

3739 1096

So how do you get just man or dirt from that?

Quote (Ron @ Jan. 15 2008,14:04)

The above is form the Westcott & Hort Interlinear; my literal rendering, as I gave earlier on page 1004, is: All [Greek, panta, Strong's #3956] came to be through [Greek, di, Strong's #1223] him, and apart from him not [Greek, oude, Strong's #3956] one came to be.

Your literal rendering? What happened to Westcott & Hort litteral rendering.

WJ said that the Westcott & Hort rendering was my literal rendring, and that was what I responded to; I posted to the effect that the W&H rendering was not ***my*** literal rendering. The W&H never was ***my*** literal rendering. Nevertheless, absolutely nothing happened to the W&H literal rendering; it is still there, and it is still that of W&H, nor mine.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2008,14:04)

Again, are you a greek scholar? What credentials do you have to change the text or translations?

Do you understand why they translated John 1:3 the way they did?

Do you understand words like case, gender, anarthrous, parsing, lexical forms, imperfect tense? How does the imperfect tense relate to a prepositional phrase at the start of a verse? Etc. Etc. Etc.

Yet you are trying to give us your ‘literal rendering” in opposition to the text and simply reading into John 1:3 your
understanding claiming it does not mean what it says!

I actually used Jay Green's Interlinear* (Second Edition, c. 1986) as a basis; Green's Interlinear rendering reads: “All things through Him came into being and without Him came into being not even one that came into being.” I only dropped the word “things” and the word “even” that do not actually appear in the Greek text.
========
*Second Edition:
http://astore.amazon.com/restorationli-20/detail/1878442821/
Later Edition:
http://astore.amazon.com/restorationli-20/detail/1565639774/

I had no purpose of changing the texts or the translations. Jay Green's Literal Translation reads: “All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.” In his literal translation, he adds the word “thing” after “one” and changes the inflection in the last instance from “came into being” to “has come into being”, which does not create any great difference as far as meaning is concerned.

WJ presented nothing specific that he objects to in the rendering I gave. If there is something specific that anyone wishes to present concerning the Greek, then the specific case should be presented. Otherwise, I simply view statements such as WJ's above as meaningless and designed to sidetrack the issue.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2008,14:04)

Look again…

without him *nothing was made* that has been made.

Yes, it still says the same thing. I do not deny what it says. Nor do I deny the context as well as the rest of the scriptures that show what is being spoken of.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2008,14:04)

Quote (Ron @ Jan. 15 2008,14:04)

He said to them, “Go into all the world [Strong's #2889, a form of kosmos], and preach the gospel to the whole creation.”

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=2889

Let me ask:
What is the “whole creation” [Greek transliteration: pasee tee ktisei, literally, all the creation] spoken of in Mark 16:15? Note “pasee” is a form of pas, Strong's 3956.

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=3956

What does this have to do with John 1:3? I do not see the word “world or kosmos” in John 1:3.

It is related to the context, as I have shown: “the world was made through him.” (John 1:10) “In the beginning” (John 1:1) I have already shown the scriptural usage of “beginning” as related to John 1:1.

See page 1004

The Beginning
http://creation.reslight.net/tb.html

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2008,14:04)

And as far making the argument that the Greek word “pasee” is a form of pas, Strong's 3956. therefore “All things were made by him” dosnt mean all things is a straw and an obvious smoke screen for the young and unskilled in the word.

The greek word “Pas” for “all things” in Jn 1:3 and “to every” in Mark 16:15 means;
1) individually
a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2) collectively
a) some of all types

It is used several ways as you see. Depending on context, and many other factors like the rules of Greek grammer which determined why a particular
verse was translated a certain way.

Example..

Matt 5:11
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say [all manner] “Pas” of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Here we see all manner of evil would be said falsly against us but this does not mean every evil.

So far, this bears out the point I was making. One does indeed have to take into consideration not only the context, but also common evidence of its usage, to determine what is included or excluded from “pas”. NOTE: I am not saying that “pas” can never be used to mean absolutely “everything that exists”, but it rarely ever means such. Indeed, absolutely everthing that exists would include God Almighty Himself. Assuming that God is excluded, it is still true that “pas” rarely means absolutely every created thing.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2008,14:04)

Jn 5:23
That [all] “Pas” men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

So here we see all men should honour Yeshua even as they honour the Father. So we know that “ALL” means all here.

Pas in John 5:23 is qualified by the word “men”. It does not include absolutely everything in the universe. John 5:23 confirms what I have been saying.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2008,14:04)

So your argument is fallacious! “Pas” can mean “all things” and in John 1:3 does.

It is not a matter of whether “pas” can mean “all things”, for it most certainly does. However, “all things” as rendered from forms of the word “pas” always looks to context as well as common evidence for what is included in the “all things” being spoken of.

For “pas” to mean absolutely everything would have it to include God as well as Jesus. You will have to admit that “pas” is being used in relative to made things as indicated by context, and not absolutely everything in the universe. The context, both before — “in the beginning” (John 1:1) — and after — “the word was made through him” (John 1:9,10), shows that the things made are referring to the things of the world of mankind.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2008,14:04)

Not only dose it say all things were made by him but it says…

without him *nothing was made* that has been made.

And thus, we have one of the qualifiers of what “pas” means. And from the further context, and well as the rest of John and the entire New Testament, we can ascertain that what is being spoken of are the things made relative to the world of mankind, as I have already shown from the scriptures. Without him, nothing (in the world that was made through Jesus — John 1:9,10; 17:5) was made that was made.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2008,14:04)

You come here trying to bring some new theology that Jesus was some mighty Spirit being before he was born, (what form you can not say), though we know the Word was with God and was God.

If what I present bears out what was actually being taught by the apostles, then the theology I am presenting is the “Old Theology” of the scriptures, and not a new theology, although it may appear to be “new” to ears of those who have accepted another theology that is different from that of Jesus and the apostles.

However, since trinitarians use words according to their own redefinitions, I am led to ask: What Biblical Greek word would you use to express “form”, and with what meaning do use the word “form”?

Paul speaks of what many call “life-forms” as related kinds of bodies. He does not confound the heavenly with the earthly, nor the spiritual with the physical and fleshly bodies. — 1 Corinthians 15:39-41,45-48.

Nevertheless, the substance of Jesus' spiritual body before he left the glory of that body was the substance of a spiritual body, that is, spirit. While on earth, he did not have the glory of the spiritual, heavenly body, but the glory of a fleshly, earthly body. Jesus, before he became a man, was of the highest order of creation, the Logos, who, after the creation of the angelic host through him he is called the archangel. — Jude 1:9; Daniel 12:1; John 1:1.

He was not then so high as he is now, for “God has highly exalted him” to his right hand because of his obedience in becoming man's willing ransom. No longer in the days of his flesh, he was “made so much better than angels.” (Philippians 2:8,9; Hebrews 1:4; 5:7) He is now, especially since his resurrection, bodily (Colossians 2:9) of the highest order of spirit beings that God will ever have (Romans 14:9; Colossians 2:10; 1:16-18; Ephesians 1:20-23; Philippians 2:9-11; Hebrews 1:4; 1 Peter 3:18,22; Revelation 5:9-3), next to that of the Father, exalted to the right hand of Yahweh. — 1 Corinthians 15:27; Psalm 45:6; Romans 8:34; Hebrews 1:3-5,13; 8:1; 10:12; 12:2; Acts 2:32,33; 5:30,31; Colossians 3:1; Ephesians 1:20; Luke 22:69; Mark 15:19; 1 Peter 3:21,22; Psalm 110:1.

See the study:
With What Body Will We Be Raised?
http://studies.reslight.net/wb.html
and
The Manner of the Resurrection
http://hereafter.reslight.net/rm.html

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2008,14:04)

I might assume you think Yeshua was an angel which would make you a Jw or something.

Jesus never was and never will be “an angel” as that word is used to describe the class of spirit beings that are spoken by that term. As the “archangel”, as well as the only-begotten theos (mighty one), he was one step above the angels. The Logos was the only one of the heavenly elohim that was brought forth into being directly as the offspring of Yahweh. All the other heavenly elohim were brought forth “through” the Logos, and thus were not, either in bodily substance or rank, of the same glory as the Logos.

See:
http://godandson.reslight.net/michael.html

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2008,14:04)

Then you claim the Word created only humanity with no proof but a few scriptures you use to force another meaning on Jn 1:3.

The above simply shows that what I have been posting has not been studied in detail. I do not say that Jesus created anything at all. I stay by what the scriptures say. It was “through” Jesus that God, whom the Logos was with, created these things. Nor have I ev
er said that Jesus was not the instrument in the creation of things other than the world of mankind. I do say that John 1:3 is referring only to the things of the world of mankind. Colossians 1:16 shows that God also used the prehuman Jesus in creation of all living things, dominions visible and invisible, in heaven and on earth. Again, while the context shows that Colossians 1:15,16 is referring to intelligent living creatures, I do not say that Jesus was not the instrument in the creating of the land masses, the physical heavens (atmosphere), etc., as described in Genesis 1.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2008,14:04)

Look at the translations again.

Jn 1:3
KJV All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. King James Version 1611, 1769

ASV All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made. American Standard Version 1901 Info

Webster All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Noah Webster Version 1833 Info

HNV All things were made through him. Without him was not anything made that has been made.

In addition to Jay Green's rendering that I have already presented, I might add to the above:

all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened. — Young's Literal Translation.

All things, through him, came into existence, and, without him, came into existence, not even one thing: that which hath come into existence, — Rotherham's Emphasized Bible translation.

All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. — Douay-Rheims.

Everything came to be by his hand; and without him not even one thing came to be of what was created. — Lamsa.

Rightly understood in context, and with the rest of what God has revealed by means of his holy spirit in the scriptures, none of the translations disagree with what I am saying. A reader of the translation, however, who has a preconception, may isolate the verse both from context and the rest of the scriptures in order to support a wrong conclusion.

Let me illustrate by quoting Hebrews 2:8 likewise:

in that he subjected all things to him, he left nothing that is not subject to him. — World English

For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. — New American Standard.

For in that he subjected all things unto him, he left nothing that is not subject to him. — American Standard.

Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. — English Standard Version.

For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. — King James Version

For in subjecting everything to him, He left nothing not subject to him. — Holman Christian Standard Bible translation.

In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. — New International Version

for in the subjecting to him the all things, nothing did He leave to him unsubjected. — Young's Literal Translation.

For, in subjecting, to him the all things, nothing, left he, to him unsubjected. — Rotherham's Emphasized Bible translation.

Yes, most definitely, in isolation, without looking at other scriptures, it would appear that God has subjected absolutely everything in the universe to man. Thus, by such an isolation of the scripture, one could conclude the angels became lower than man, and that the sun, the moon, the stars, the solar systems, the galaxies, etc., are under the control of man. Of course, such is absurd! One *has* consider the rest of the scriptures as well as common evidence. (Psalm 8:5-8) And, likewise, in John 1:3, one must consider not only the context, but also the rest of the revealment through God's spirit.

Regardless of the translation, one still has to consider the context as well as the rest of the God's revealment thoughout the scriptures.

May God bless.

In service of Jesus and his God,
Ronald

January 17, 2008 at 10:13 pm#107326

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Ron

I appreciate your response, however I will probably not be able to respond untill the first of the week.

I will be going out of town over the weekend.

You have left me a lot to respond to.

Should be back the first of the week.

Blessings!

January 18, 2008 at 3:34 pm#107327

martian

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 18 2008,09:13)

Ron

I appreciate your response, however I will probably not be able to respond untill the first of the week.

I will be going out of town over the weekend.

You have left me a lot to respond to.

Should be back the first of the week.

Blessings!

We will all wait with baited breath for Wj's return.

Tune in next week for the next rendering of the hit show, “How to teach Anti-Christ Doctrine in four million lessons.”

That's right folks. You too can learn to teach this non functional doctrine
Learn how to deny historical facts about it's origin. Learn to speak philo-speak in confusing and irrational patters to confuse the issue. Learn to cloud the issues with intelectualism and gnosticism. Last but not least learn to downgrade the work of Christ the man with accusations of deity.

January 18, 2008 at 4:31 pm#107328

kenrch

Participant

But WJ what do you do with the scripture that Chap gave?

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

One true GOD. AND Jesus.

January 20, 2008 at 12:12 am#107329

Son of Light

Participant

Quote (martian @ Jan. 19 2008,02:34)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 18 2008,09:13)

Ron

I appreciate your response, however I will probably not be able to respond untill the first of the week.

I will be going out of town over the weekend.

You have left me a lot to respond to.

Should be back the first of the week.

Blessings!

We will all wait with baited breath for Wj's return.

Tune in next week for the next rendering of the hit show, “How to teach Anti-Christ Doctrine in four million lessons.”

I appreciate the humor of this post.

However, if we are speaking of historical facts about the origin of the trinity then “actually” it DOES come from a gnostic understanding of the Godhead.

The trinity doctrine evolved over time.

Originally the concept was that God was neither male nor female but had both aspects. He was refered to as male out of patriarichal and cultural respect.

God emenated from his own nature all the spirits that have or will ever exist.

The logos was the first spirit to emanate thus the firstborn. The sophia was the second as the Holy spirit.

Then a progression of eminations took place leading to the pleroma (fullness) of the Godhead.

Paul writing in greek uses all these same words just as the gnostics do.

The greco/romans got this doctrine and through 300 years of theological evolution developed the trinity doctrine.

They cut off the pleroma (fullness) of the Godhead by limiting it to God and his two firstborn spirit eminations. They labeled these three as the fullness of the Godhead and made them all one being called God with three personalities.

The original doctrine claimed one God and explained the origin of all spirits while demonstrating the heirarchy of these spiritual eminations.

Christ the firstborn spirit coming to earth as a man as Paul was trying to explain with his comparison to Adam. We are to be born of spirit after the image of the firstborn spirit and put off our fleshy nature of the firstborn man.

Where at the end we would join the pleroma (fullness) of the godhead by being transformed into spirit by which the whole family of God is named.

January 20, 2008 at 1:00 am#107330

kenrch

Participant

So we “were” part of God and soon will be part of God again? God consists of many spirit beings? All are God?

Sounds dangerous to me. Well we will all find out won't we?

If you know the Father, you know the Son, and if you know the Son you know the Holy Spirit. And if you know the Holy Spirit you know the “whole of God” the God family?

January 20, 2008 at 1:13 am#107331

Son of Light

Participant

Quote (kenrch @ Jan. 20 2008,12:00)

So we “were” part of God and soon will be part of God again? God consists of many spirit beings? All are God?

Sounds dangerous to me. Well we will all find out won't we?

If you know the Father, you know the Son, and if you know the Son you know the Holy Spirit. And if you know the Holy Spirit you know the “whole of God” the God family?

Ecclesiastes 12:7

7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The spirit of man is from God.

We are NOT God. We are his sons and daughters and are in his image.

This IS NOT New Age doctrine. This is forgotten and pushed under the rug doctrine that is right under our noses in the bible.

January 20, 2008 at 1:17 am#107332

kenrch

Participant

Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 20 2008,12:13)

Quote (kenrch @ Jan. 20 2008,12:00)

So we “were” part of God and soon will be part of God again? God consists of many spirit beings? All are God?

Sounds dangerous to me. Well we will all find out won't we?

If you know the Father, you know the Son, and if you know the Son you know the Holy Spirit. And if you know the Holy Spirit you know the “whole of God” the God family?

Ecclesiastes 12:7

7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The spirit of man is from God.

We are NOT God. We are his sons and daughters and are in his image.

This IS NOT New Age doctrine. This is forgotten and pushed under the rug doctrine that is right under our noses in the bible.

Quote

Then a progression of eminations took place leading to the pleroma (fullness) of the Godhead.

I'm sorry did I misunderstand you?

January 20, 2008 at 8:21 am#107333

Son of Light

Participant

Quote (kenrch @ Jan. 20 2008,12:17)

Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 20 2008,12:13)

Quote (kenrch @ Jan. 20 2008,12:00)

So we “were” part of God and soon will be part of God again? God consists of many spirit beings? All are God?

Sounds dangerous to me. Well we will all find out won't we?

If you know the Father, you know the Son, and if you know the Son you know the Holy Spirit. And if you know the Holy Spirit you know the “whole of God” the God family?

Ecclesiastes 12:7

7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The spirit of man is from God.

We are NOT God. We are his sons and daughters and are in his image.

This IS NOT New Age doctrine. This is forgotten and pushed under the rug doctrine that is right under our noses in the bible.

Quote

Then a progression of eminations took place leading to the pleroma (fullness) of the Godhead.

I'm sorry did I misunderstand you?

We are part of the godhead Just as Jesus is part of the godhead. Though Jesus is greater than us as he is greater than all other spirits as the firstborn.

We are not the Most High but we are in the image of the Most High.

We are of the spirit of God, his spiritual substance in his image.

The Father is far greater than us but we are of a God nature.

We have God's spiritual genetics.

We are of the spiritual species elohim, sons of God.

January 20, 2008 at 8:44 am#107334

NickHassan

Participant

Hi SOL,
We are of the genetics of soil.
Body soul and spirit made in the likeness of God as the inner man.
God is not a man and it is pure vanity to think we are not a part of the divine nature.
God blowing his breath into us gave us soul and life giving spirit but that spirit is not His Holy Spirit and it belongs to Him and returns to Him. Man must be reborn from above to share in the Spirit of eternal life and become one with God in Christ.

Jn3
31He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

32And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

33He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

January 20, 2008 at 10:36 am#107335

Son of Light

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 20 2008,19:44)

Hi SOIL,
We are of the genetics of soil.
Body soul and spirit made in the likeness of God as the inner man.
God is not a man and it is pure vanity to think we are not a part of the divine nature.
God blowing his breath into us gave us soul and life giving spirit but that spirit is not His Holy Spirit and it belongs to Him and returns to Him. Man must be reborn from above to share in the Spirit of eternal life and become one with God in Christ.

Jn3
31He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

32And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

33He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

That is why we need to be born from above and adopted as sons so that we can unite with the spirit of God.

So that our tainted spirits can be conformed to the likeness of THE son of God who is the exact image of the Father.

January 20, 2008 at 10:43 am#107336

Son of Light

Participant

Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 20 2008,21:36)