The Trinity Doctrine

[NickHassan]

Hi MS,
Was Jesus not a normal man but a God being in a fleshly AVATAR??
Was he God in flesh and then filled with God at the Jordan?

Acts 2
22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
1Tim 2
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Heb2
17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
If not how can we follow him?

[NickHassan]

Hi MS,
Did Jesus say he was Son of God?
Yes many times
Did he say he was God?
No

Do you know more?

[Morningstar]

Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 05 2007,13:21)

Did the Son of God become the son of man then the Son of God again?

He is the son of God who took on flesh as a man gaining the title son of man.

[Morningstar]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 05 2007,13:54)

Hi MS, Did Jesus say he was Son of God? Yes many times Did he say he was God? No Do you know more?

well when directly being accused of claiming to be equal in nature with God Jesus quoted psalm 82 where the Father calls his sons “gods”.

Jesus thus is saying

I am the son of God and my father calls me a God so who are you to question my title and the scriptures cannot be broken.

[NickHassan]

Hi MS,
Do you really think the humble servant grasped avariciously for a title of GOD?
Phil 2
Was he a man?

[Morningstar]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 05 2007,14:15)

Hi MS, Do you really think the humble servant grasped avariciously for a title of GOD? Phil 2 Was he a man?

no i dont think he did, but regardless the Father calls him that.

[Morningstar]

Hebews 2

14Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants.

the son of God went from being a divine son to a human and then back to a divine son.

He was still the same being though, he was Jesus the whole time. The only thing that changed was his nature and with it many limitations.

We are now human sons who will become divine sons following after our Lords example and we currently are and will be sons of God as well.

[NickHassan]

Yes Ms,
He was truth and if God called men gods he could not deny he was above them.
That is not the point but whether the monogenes Son was ever appointed as a GOD over Israel.
Michael seemed to have a special responsibility towards them[Dan 10.21, 12.1], Satan is called the god of this world and the Most High God is king of heaven and earth but while the son is called the appointed Lord of all[Acts 2.36, 10.36] he is never called God of anyone.

[Morningstar]

In the ressurection Nick you are still going to be Nick, you will be given a new name but you are the same being with a new and glorious divine son nature.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Morningstar @ Dec. 05 2007,14:24)

Hebews 2 14Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants. the son of God went from being a divine son to a human and then back to a divine son. He was still the same being though, he was Jesus the whole time.  The only thing that changed was his nature and with it many limitations. We are now human sons who will become divine sons following after our Lords example and we currently are and will be sons of God as well.

Hi MS,
So as a human he worked in the power of his God and Father?

[Morningstar]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 05 2007,14:25)

Yes Ms, He was truth and if God called men gods he could not deny he was above them. That is not the point but whether the monogenes Son was ever appointed as a GOD over Israel. Michael seemed to have a special responsibility towards them[Dan 10.21, 12.1], Satan is called the God of this world and the Most High God is king of heaven and earth but while the son is called the appointed Lord of all[Acts 2.36, 10.36] he is never called God of anyone.

Jesus is called God more than once in the New Testament.

Concerning the Old Testament you seem to think he is not present so it won't do me much good to demonstrate much more there than I already have.

[Morningstar]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 05 2007,14:26)

Quote (Morningstar @ Dec. 05 2007,14:24) Hebews 2 14Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants. the son of God went from being a divine son to a human and then back to a divine son. He was still the same being though, he was Jesus the whole time.  The only thing that changed was his nature and with it many limitations. We are now human sons who will become divine sons following after our Lords example and we currently are and will be sons of God as well. Hi MS, So as a human he worked in the power of his God and Father?

Yes he received the holy spirit and began his ministry.

[NickHassan]

Hi MS,
You say
“My view is he preexisted as the son of God, the divine son over Israel.

Through the son the Father spoke and interacted with the patriarchs.”

Thank you for admitting it is only an opinion.

Heb 1 tells us God spoke through the son only since the prophets.
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

[Morningstar]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 05 2007,14:38)

Hi MS, You say “My view is he preexisted as the son of God, the divine son over Israel. Through the son the Father spoke and interacted with the patriarchs.” Thank you for admitting it is only an opinion. Heb 1 tells us God spoke through the son only since the prophets. 1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

John 5

36″I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. 37And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39You diligently study[c] the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

Jesus came because he had work to “finish”. nobody has ever seen or heard the Father.

Your passage in hebrews 1 is interpretated based on “your opinion”.

My opinion of that passage is that “instead of divers manners of speaking to us” the Father is using directly Face to Face his son. Not that the son was never previously used for that function.

Can you admit your view is an opinion of an interpretation?

[Morningstar]

additionally the passage is concerning the PROPHETS and does not say anything about the patriarchs where Jesus preexistent work was being done.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Morningstar @ Dec. 05 2007,14:48)

additionally the passage is concerning the PROPHETS and does not say anything about the patriarchs where Jesus preexistent work was being done.

Hi MS,
In your opinion.
Personally I believe if Christ himself walked the earth before coming as a man and knew the game before he was conceived of Mary then following him becomes impossible-he would have a head start.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Morningstar @ Dec. 05 2007,14:46)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 05 2007,14:38) Hi MS, You say “My view is he preexisted as the son of God, the divine son over Israel. Through the son the Father spoke and interacted with the patriarchs.” Thank you for admitting it is only an opinion. Heb 1 tells us God spoke through the son only since the prophets. 1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; John 5 36″I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. 37And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39You diligently study[c] the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life. Jesus came because he had work to “finish”.  nobody has ever seen or heard the Father. Your passage in hebrews 1 is interpretated based on “your opinion”. My opinion of that passage is that “instead of divers manners of speaking to us” the Father is using directly Face to Face his son.  Not that the son was never previously used for that function. Can you admit your view is an opinion of an interpretation?

Hi MS,
Should we assume that the use of FINISH states that Jesus has always done this work and that the addition of FACE TO FACE is OK?

[Morningstar]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 05 2007,14:59)

Quote (Morningstar @ Dec. 05 2007,14:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 05 2007,14:38) Hi MS, You say “My view is he preexisted as the son of God, the divine son over Israel. Through the son the Father spoke and interacted with the patriarchs.” Thank you for admitting it is only an opinion. Heb 1 tells us God spoke through the son only since the prophets. 1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; John 5 36″I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. 37And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39You diligently study[c] the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life. Jesus came because he had work to “finish”.  nobody has ever seen or heard the Father. Your passage in hebrews 1 is interpretated based on “your opinion”. My opinion of that passage is that “instead of divers manners of speaking to us” the Father is using directly Face to Face his son.  Not that the son was never previously used for that function. Can you admit your view is an opinion of an interpretation? Hi MS, Should we assume that the use of FINISH states that Jesus has always done this work and that the addition of FACE TO FACE is OK?

in order to express my view I must use my own words. I could go back and retype a better explanation of my view. But, I think you understood what I meant.

Otherwise, we could just post nothing but scripture back and forth. But, then we would continue to interpret those scriptures with our independent understanding and nothing would get accomplished.

[Morningstar]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 05 2007,14:56)

Quote (Morningstar @ Dec. 05 2007,14:48) additionally the passage is concerning the PROPHETS and does not say anything about the patriarchs where Jesus preexistent work was being done. Hi MS, In your opinion. Personally I believe if Christ himself walked the earth before coming as a man and knew the game before he was conceived of Mary then following him becomes impossible-he would have a head start.

I have seen you write simular things to this nature.

I must say I really don't understand what you mean. “headstart”?

We aren't in a competition with Christ. (not that I think you think that).

I have seen you use other words like “it wouldnt be fair”.

I really am clueless as to what exactly you are saying.

my understanding is that Christ came and taught us truth, he taught us the real meaning of the Law and how to please the Father.

He also came to defeat satan and the power of death.

He can be as unfair as he wants in my opinion concerning those things.

[NickHassan]

Hi MS,
A man conceived in Mary of God's Spirit.
No wisdom or power except what was given him of God.
No prior roles among men but one we can follow.

[Author]

Posts