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Welcome home, Laurel! We missed you around here……
After you get the dog food, come back and tell us what you've been learning.
Love,
MandyWJ……> First of all to clearify what Shuck is, it's whats left when you Shuck Corn, it's the waste.
Well here we go againt WJ, you never answered one of the Scriptures I presented to you, but simple skirited the whole issue as always.
Please try to concentrate on what I ask you, WHO IS THE GOD YOU ARE WORSHIPING< IS IT THE MAN JESUS< THE HOLY SPIRIT.
The issue isn't who you worship, it's who you worship as your (GOD), is it all three or just one.
Your response seams to indicate only one and its Jesus who is your GOD. And WJ that a tipical trinitarian response, if you turn on any relegious brodcast you hardly ever hear of God the FAther it's all about Jesus, But when Jesus walked the earth it was all about the Father according to Him.
I simple believe what Jeaus said Makr 12:29-30> ” Hear O Israel, the Lord (OUR) God is (ONE) LORD, and thou shalt love the LORD THY GOD with all thy Heart, and with all thy Soul, and with All thy Mind, and with all they strenght.
BY the way thats who Jesus Worshiped also.
And you say you trinitarians haven't created another God and the way i see it thats IDOLATRY.
While I Love, Honor, and Respect Him and give Him all the Glory the Father has given Him, He is My Brother, But NOT MY GOD. I Have only one God and there is no other.
Just the way I see it WJ……..gene
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 28 2007,04:48) Isnt that exactly what you were saying to the Unitarians?
What are you talking about?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 28 2007,04:44) t8 This was after his ressurection when all power and authority was given back to him.
Phil 2:5-8
And besides that is a cute way to try and disprove the trinity.
Given to him by whom?God.
God gave it to him or gave it back to him.
Get it now?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 28 2007,04:44) But what about this…. Pss 110:1
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.Matt 22:41
While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.You yourself says Yeshua pre-exist, then according to this statement by Yeshua was David calling him Lord?
Or do you like those who were trying to trip him up not have have an answer also?
To WJ.I am surprised at your post. If you are to teach on this subject you should understand what you are teaching and if not, as in your case, you should be studying it instead.
James 3:1
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.In Matthew 22, the word for Lord is “kurios” and it is obvious given the context that 2 different lords/kurios are being referred to. To support this, the original scripture Psalm 110:1 uses 2 different words for Lord. One is capitalised and the other is not.
The LORD says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”The first word LORD is “Y@hovah/YHWH” and the second word Lord is “adown”.
To make these verses out to say they are the same being is completely wrong. The context proves that assumption wrong and the original Hebrew uses 2 different words. One being the name of God and the other is a title that describes a person in authority such as a lord, master, king, prince, etc.
David is talking about God and his Lord.
The New Testament shows us that the Father is God and Jesus is Lord.
1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Acts 2:36
“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”So WJ.
God made Jesus Lord.
God and Lord. That is 2. Many scriptures confirm this.
It appears to me that in order to support the Trinity doctrine you are again trying to confuse people by playing word games. Trinitarians often do this with the word Lord.
But LORD and lord are different words in the Hebrew. In the Greek, when you see lord/kurios, you need to ask what lord is being spoken of.
Even in English we use the word lord not exclusively regarding Jesus. If you ever rented an apartment you would have had a landlord who is the lord of the apartment. Of course he could have Jesus as his lord and it is not hard to see how my lord and the Lord, or the LORD/YHWH is not speaking of the same person.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 03 2007,08:47) Quote (seeking the truth @ Oct. 03 2007,04:19) I agree with you Gene..it's about simplicity but for some reason , some just would not accept simplicity. Jesus totally relied on the Father..His words He spoke was not his, his powers to heal the sick, feed the hunger, raised the dead, and cast demons were from the Father.. John simple said the “Word”… because the word is of God and the word was God….
Jesus is not mentioned till verse 14..
What do you think Gene??
IAM4TRUTH..I had no idea your daughter's name is also Cindy…
Well you've a chosen a perfect Name for her..I bet she's as sweet as her mother=)..Blessing to you and your family..
seeking the truth…..> you have it exactly right, the truth is so simple, you don't have to say (the word) means a person or say, this doesn't mean what is say's, unless there is a translation error. And whats even better once you see how the Father worked through his son, the man Jesus, you recieve great hope in knowing He can do the same thing through Us also. Jesus wasn't God, doing God's work, but God was doing (HIS) work through his son, the Man Jesus, our brother in every way. WE truly do see it eye to eye. You could not have gotten that clear of an understanding unless God was showing you. And isn't it amazing how many other scriptures clear up when you understand Jesus was Not God……….Its refreshing to see how The Father is showing more and more people the truth…..peace to you and yours……a fellow lover of the truth……gene
Gene,
I also know that the Word was Elohim. I know that the Son, Y'shua is the fulfillment of our Father's Word. So since Messiah is filled now with the Spirit of the Father, He is in essence the Word, because the Word is in Him.Since we do agree, I just need to thank STT for writing it for better understanding that I could not.
We are in the here and now so it is not a contradiction to say that Y'shua Messiah is the Word. Scripture says that the Word became flesh. The Word certainly has become flesh and dwells within us who follow Messiah. The Word is the Spirit, the Sword of Truth.
This discussion has been a pleasure to read. I surely see the Set-apart Spirit moving here. Thank you to everyone who speaks the Truth. I will not name names, you know who you are.
Thank you T8 for giving us this oppurtunity to bring our many blessings to one place. Even though we do not see each other physically, that makes no difference. This is a True Church. All members are important to the body! Our purpose is clear. Seek the Truth, proove it, share it, do not sell it, stand for it, to reach the fullness of our Savior, and meet Him in the air upon His return!!! We love one another, even through diversity, and love Elohim above all.
Love in Messiah Y'shua and our Father,
LaurelQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 26 2007,13:40) t8…….> You say and give scripture that God created every thing through and for Christ. And by this you are saying Jesus preexisted as some sort of being. What do you do with other scriptures that show it differently, like,
ISA 44:24….> Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer and He that Formed thee in the (womb), I am the Lord that maketh all thngs; that stretched forth the heaven (ALONE); that spreadeth abroad the earth (BY MYSELF).Evidently we have a conterdiction of scriptures. How could God do it alone and by Himself if Jesus was present as you claim the text says.
You either have to accept WJ's reasoning that Jesus is God Himself or say one or the other scripture is wrong or maybe yours and other preexistentest and trinitarinest understanding of what your proof text say's is wrong.
I offer you this, the word (Christ) in your proof text does not Mean the man JESUS but the Annointing or Spirit of God. And thats what God created the world through and for, and it had nothing to do with Jesus the Person at all.
With this understanding both texts are OK as they are.
and does not Give Jesus the position of God Himself.
IMO……gene
Gene,
It is Scripture that teaches Elohim did all tings through Messiah, not T8. T8 is supporting Scripture.Gene, I do not know why you are “missing” some things here, but I believe you will see it if you keep trying.
T8 sees through the Spirit, or I can say he see with the Spirit. The Spirit is the “looking glass” that we see through.
We receive that Spirit through the Messiah, for He is our “head.” His Head is YHWH our ELohim.
From this perspective, we see that because the Messiah is filled with the Spirit. He IS the Word made flesh. YHWH made Him this way because Messiah completed His work according to the Spring Feasts of YHWH. Messiah IS our Passover.
It was planned this way “from” YHWH our Creator, whom did all things “through” His Son. This is the revelation of the Spirit. The Spirit not being a separate person, but rather the power that comes “from” YHWH our ELohim, “through” the Son, and He YHWH made it this way from the beginning.
One Father, one Son, one Spirit, NOT A TRINITY BUT A UNITY!!! Like marraige, a unit, one complements the other completely, making them one. Two beings with one purpose. TWO WITNESSES are all that is needed, to proove His Word is Truth.
Love through the Spirit,
LaurelJust to confirm the above, YHWH never did and will never contradict Himself. He made provision before He Created the heavens and the earth for the Messiah. Messiah was there planned from before we were, to be a witness of the Spirit who is YHWH our Elohim. The works were complete before creation, because His will, will be done. This is a testament to His Mightyness. The end was proclaimed from the beginning!!!!!!!
This solidifies His Word. This is Truth.
Gene, the following is your quote:
“I offer you this, the word (Christ) in your proof text does not Mean the man JESUS but the Annointing or Spirit of God. And thats what God created the world through and for, and it had nothing to do with Jesus the Person at all.”Y'shua Messiah, the Name with a special purpose and meaning.
Y'shua comes from the Hebrew root meaning Savior or Salvation, while Y' in Y'shua means YHWH. He came in His Father's Name, and you do not receive Me, if another comes in his own name, Him you will receive. Traditions of men at work!
Messiah also a special meaning: The annointed of YHWH, notice the pronounciation of the last part of Messi-YAH. In Greek there is NO equivalent for YHWH!! So they renamed Him after there own language, their familiar spirits, namely LORD and Lord a title given to any man posessing, owning land. How pathetic that most of us continue to profane the Name of YHWH, in ignorance, calling Him by “another's name.”
El Shaddi, great and glorious is your Name. Ha-le-lu-yah (praise be to Yah!)
Y'shua Messiah has everything to do with everything!!!
It has been shown to me through great study and prayer that…the Living Lord Jesus Christ Messiah Y'shuwa Lesous or what ever term you choose to use…your still talking about the same person. Jesus whom was the son of man, and the son of GOD/YHWH. Whom has risen and whom GOD/YHWH hath made both Lord and Christ.
He IS the perfect sacrificial Lamb…the Messiah…the Saviour of mankind for their doom unto Sin. He is the only way your going to be forgiven of your Sins at this time. He is the only way your going to get to GOD/YHWH. He has paid the price abolished the old law…and implemented a new one. GOD/YHWH hath given unto him all power in the Heavens and in the Earth.
Now…I could still go on and on and on and on…But I truly hope you get the point by now…I pray to GOD/YHWH that you do…for this my Brothers and Sisters is the way the truth and the light.
To profess that Jesus is not or never was…or to say that he GOD In my opinion is to say that he was NOT JESUS. Thats to say that JESUS did NOT come…which is that spirit of ANTI- CHIRST. This is just how I'm seeing it. If I'm wrong I'm sure GOD/YHWH would have shown me by now. JESUS, Y'SHUWA, Messiah, Lesous…I just prefer to use the terms GOD and JESUS cause most people know exactly what your talking about that have not studied the lexions.
The cross at Calvary is where it all went down folks. Thats where the old law was met lived up to and fulfilled by Jesus. He paid the price of the old law in FULL and marched right down to hell and took the keys. PRAISE GOD! And, now he has implemented the new law.
If you want to burn billy goats, slay pigs and not eat pork chops…and be dipped in water…super! Thats really only your business.
But, I've been dipped in the blood of Jesus and baptized with the Holy Ghost…and I believe that thats the new Law.
You can believe what you want…I really don't care its your business. But my business is what I know to be true. And, I'm gonna stick to that…what the spirit hath said…not what man hath said. I would highly suggest that you all get in the spirit and do the same.Samuel,
I appreciate yor testimony, but I have a question for you. Where do you read in Scripture that the Messiah went to Hell to get the keys to the pit?What is Hell in this context in your opinion?
Scripture teaches that Messiah overcame death, though He gave His life in the service of His Father, for our sake.
Hell in this context is death, the grave. Hell in this context is not the 2nd death of which there is no Salvation, which is “final judgment” that has yet to take place in the not so far off future. Until then, the dead who are burried, sleep.
Laurel
Quote Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 28 2007,04:48)
Isnt that exactly what you were saying to the Unitarians?What are you talking about?
I was beginning to wonder myself. I think you need to slow down WJ and try to make a clear point.
Quote Quote Recently, what I've been realizing is that while some scriptures may be reasonably interpreted that Jesus is God such as John 1:1, John 20:28, or Phil 2:5-8, these scriptures to not given the expressive explanations that Jesus taught.
So John and Paul contradicts Jesus teaching. Sorry my friend you are denying the inspired scriptures if you say their words are not true.
Let me give you an example of what you are doing.
Jesus said…
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. Jn 6:38
Now like the Unitarians I could say that because Jesus was born from above that is what he meant, not that he pre-existed.
I'm not contradicting the scriptures WJ what I'm clearly stating is that Jesus taught expressly on his relationship with his Father and the few scriptures that you use to promote Jesus is God do not clarify his relationship with his Father, which is why Christ went into so much detail with respect to being subject to his Father. These are truths that are not revealed in John 1:1, John 20:28, etc.
Quote Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? Notice it dosnt say just “Christ” but it says Jesus Christ is in you. How is that? A mere man dwells in 1000s of believers world wide and can be among two or three at the same time?
Just so you know the Spirit of God is also the Spirit of Yeshua Paul writes…
You seem troubled. Were the above scriptures ever an issue or did anyone say they contradicted each other. Perhaps this is a revelation to you.
Quote You say…Quote For instance, he said, I came down from heaven not to do mine own will but the will of him who sent me. Jesus is showing us that the Father has authority over him. Jesus said he kept the commandments of his Father. He said the doctrine was not his, but his Father. Notice, Jesus doesn't even make a claim that the doctrine is his, too, or equally his, too. Jesus worships the Father, the Father does not worship Jesus. Once you see all these depictions of Christ relationship with his Father you see very clearly that God the Father is over his Son, whom some also refer to God, without any clarification of how their relationship is characterized above. While it's sincere and innocent, you've come to the place where you understand there much more to the truth the Jesus is Lord than meets the eye at first glance.
Everything you say here is post “Incarnation” after he came in the flesh and was born a man.
Paul gives us the explanation for this in Phil 2:5-7.
He emptied himself and came to do the will of the Father as a man according to Heb 10.
You acknowledge by the Phil. 2:5-8, that he was in the form of God and emptied himself and became a man, so you acknowledge that he pre-existed. He was in the form of God. When? Who? Do the scriptures refer to any other person being in the form of God but Christ. Christ emptied himself and became a man. Thank you WJ, this is a wonderful scripture that Paul writes that support what John the Baptist said, that he came from above and is above all and testifies what he has seen and heard and God gave all things into his hands.
I know you are in love with John 1:1. You acknowledge that Christ is the Word there. The scripture says the “he” made all things and without him was not anything made that was made. Notice here though it does not say “alone”. Christ was working with his Father. Let us make man.
Yet you deny that “he” is the Son of God prior, yet claim to be trinitarian.
John the Baptist says the “he” that he was referring to was the Lamb of God and later in the chapter he gives his grand conclusion that “he” is the Son of God. According to John the Baptist Jesus existed prior. John the Baptist said God told him that the one that you see the holy spirit descend upon is the one that baptizes with the Holy Ghost. This Jesus he said was the Light by whom nothing was made without him and the Word by whom nothing was made without him. Yet you do not believe that Christ pre-existed.Steve Good job, I really believe that it takes time for somebody to understand what you and I and some others belief that Jesus preexisted. I remember when somebody told me, I said to Him “no way you have to be kidding me.” But over time God showed me over and over again until I finally excepted it. So we have to keep up with explaining it over and over again.
My favorite scriptures to explain it are
Col. 1:15 “He is the image of the invisible God the first born over all creation.”
verse 16 “FOR BY HIM ALL THINGS WERE CREATED THAT ARE IN HEAVEN AND THAT ARE ON EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE……….
Verse 17 ” AND HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS, AND IN HIM ALL CONSIST.
Rev. 3:14 ” These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.”
So Brothers and Sisters when are you going to belief this?Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 29 2007,09:22) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 28 2007,04:48) Isnt that exactly what you were saying to the Unitarians?
What are you talking about?
t8What I am talking about is I have heard you say God is beyond our comprehension calling on certain scriptures to support Henotheism, for instance you said…
Quote
Scripture says that he existed, this is the mystery. To believe otherwise means to throw out some scripture and it also doesn't make sense if he is the only one who can declare the invisible God.Yet as you know there is no scripture that says that Pre-existence is the Mystery. How ever you read into those scriptures your Henotheistic belief and then claim the Unitarians are wrong while you incite scriptures about Yeshua being a divine being, or a god who pre-existed all things and then call it a Mystery.
You are no better than others like the Trinitarians who believe the mystery is God manifest in the flesh, God taking on the form of humanity.
The difference is Trinitarians know what form he was and is based on scriptures.
Yet you apparantly have no Idea what form he was before emptying himself.
You claim the Unitarians are throwing out scriptures, yet you throw out scriptures like Jn 1:1 which clearly teach Yeshua is God.
f you believe he pre-existed then what was he t8? And where is scripture to back it up?
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 29 2007,10:15) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 28 2007,04:44) But what about this…. Pss 110:1
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.Matt 22:41
While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.You yourself says Yeshua pre-exist, then according to this statement by Yeshua was David calling him Lord?
Or do you like those who were trying to trip him up not have have an answer also?
To WJ.I am surprised at your post. If you are to teach on this subject you should understand what you are teaching and if not, as in your case, you should be studying it instead.
James 3:1
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.In Matthew 22, the word for Lord is “kurios” and it is obvious given the context that 2 different lords/kurios are being referred to. To support this, the original scripture Psalm 110:1 uses 2 different words for Lord. One is capitalised and the other is not.
The LORD says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”The first word LORD is “Y@hovah/YHWH” and the second word Lord is “adown”.
To make these verses out to say they are the same being is completely wrong. The context proves that assumption wrong and the original Hebrew uses 2 different words. One being the name of God and the other is a title that describes a person in authority such as a lord, master, king, prince, etc.
David is talking about God and his Lord.
The New Testament shows us that the Father is God and Jesus is Lord.
1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Acts 2:36
“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”So WJ.
God made Jesus Lord.
God and Lord. That is 2. Many scriptures confirm this.
It appears to me that in order to support the Trinity doctrine you are again trying to confuse people by playing word games. Trinitarians often do this with the word Lord.
But LORD and lord are different words in the Hebrew. In the Greek, when you see lord/kurios, you need to ask what lord is being spoken of.
Even in English we use the word lord not exclusively regarding Jesus. If you ever rented an apartment you would have had a landlord who is the lord of the apartment. Of course he could have Jesus as his lord and it is not hard to see how my lord and the Lord, or the LORD/YHWH is not speaking of the same person.
t8Maybe you should actually read this scripture also.
James 3:1
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.Because a good teacher is also a good listener and obviously you did not read my post or totally missed the point.
Let me try to break it down in a way that maybe can be easier understoood.
Scriptures say that Yeshua emptied himself and became a servant and was found in fashion as a man. Phil 2:5-7.
Now if you notice in the following after he was found in fashion as a man…
Phil 2:8
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
9 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.Now according to the above scripture God exalted him and gave him a name above everyname and that every tongue would confess Yeshua is “Lord”.
When did this happen? Well lets see….
Matt 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.This was after his resurrection, right?
Now lets read your text in its context…
Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.This also was after his resurrection that he “Made” Yeshua Lord and Christ (Messiah).
Since he emptied himself and was found in fashion as a man, he once again returned to his previous place and the Glory he shared with the Father and was exalted to his rightful place as Lord of Lords and King of Kings and having recieved all power in heaven and earth the power he had when he created all things.
Your problem t8 is using this scripture of proof that Yeshua is not God when this scripture is post Phil 2:5-7.
So if David called Yeshua Lord, proving his pre-existence, then to support your theory that the Father made him Lord thefore he cant be God then you will have to come up with a scripture that shows the Father made him Lord somewhere back in eternity before he emtied himself and before he was exalted and made “Lord”.
For this prophetic scripture speaks of his exaltation after his resurrection, post Jn 1:1, 14 and Phil 2:5-8.
Nobody was trying to make them out to be the same person t8.
Read the post again.
Besides t8 you are the one playing word games again by claiming that because “The “LORD” (YHWH) said unto my “Lord” ('adown) means they are two different beings is just False.
They are Father and Son but one God.
Do you think that “YHWH” is used exclusively for the Father and 'adown is used exclusively for the Son?
How about this scripture…
Isa 51:22
Thus saith thy Lord ('adown) the LORD (YHWH), and thy God that pleadeth the cause of his people, Behold, I have taken out of thine hand the cup of trembling, [even] the dregs of the cup of my fury; thou shalt no more drink it again:So we see that 'adown is also used for the Father just like YHWH is also used for the Son…
Zech 14:
3 Then shall the LORD (YHWH) go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 …and the LORD (YHWH) my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.Is it the Father that we are looking for at his second coming. Scriptures says it is the Son of man.
Shall the Father leave heaven t8 and come to earth and set “His Feet” on MT olives?
Zech 14:9
And the LORD (YHWH) shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD (YHWH), and his name one.Who is the King of Kings and the LORD of Lords t8?
Is he not gonna be judge over all the earth?
Is this King of all the earth not Yeshua? When there shall be one LORD shall Jesus cease to be LORD?
These are sincere questions for a teacher like yourself.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 30 2007,13:10) Yet as you know there is no scripture that says that Pre-existence is the Mystery. How ever you read into those scriptures your Henotheistic belief and then claim the Unitarians are wrong while you incite scriptures about Yeshua being a divine being, or a god who pre-existed all things and then call it a Mystery.
It is written WJ, that Christ is a mystery. It is NOT written that the Trinity is a mystery, or that the 3 in one God is a mystery, or something to that effect. Yet we hear this excuse often from Trinitarians when they exhaust their understanding of this non-nonsensical doctrine.The difference is one is written, and the other is not.
Guess which one you espouse?
Now for what is written:
Romans 16:25
Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,Luke 20:41-45
41Then Jesus said to them, “How is it that they say the Christ is the Son of David?
42 David himself declares in the Book of Psalms:
” 'The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
43 until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.” 'David calls him 'Lord.' How then can he be his son?”Ephesians 3:4
In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,Colossians 4:3
And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains.Oh, and BTW, mysteries can be understood, but beyond comprehension implies that you could never grasp it.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 30 2007,14:35) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 29 2007,10:15) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 28 2007,04:44) But what about this…. Pss 110:1
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.Matt 22:41
While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.You yourself says Yeshua pre-exist, then according to this statement by Yeshua was David calling him Lord?
Or do you like those who were trying to trip him up not have have an answer also?
To WJ.I am surprised at your post. If you are to teach on this subject you should understand what you are teaching and if not, as in your case, you should be studying it instead.
James 3:1
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.In Matthew 22, the word for Lord is “kurios” and it is obvious given the context that 2 different lords/kurios are being referred to. To support this, the original scripture Psalm 110:1 uses 2 different words for Lord. One is capitalised and the other is not.
The LORD says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”The first word LORD is “Y@hovah/YHWH” and the second word Lord is “adown”.
To make these verses out to say they are the same being is completely wrong. The context proves that assumption wrong and the original Hebrew uses 2 different words. One being the name of God and the other is a title that describes a person in authority such as a lord, master, king, prince, etc.
David is talking about God and his Lord.
The New Testament shows us that the Father is God and Jesus is Lord.
1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Acts 2:36
“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”So WJ.
God made Jesus Lord.
God and Lord. That is 2. Many scriptures confirm this.
It appears to me that in order to support the Trinity doctrine you are again trying to confuse people by playing word games. Trinitarians often do this with the word Lord.
But LORD and lord are different words in the Hebrew. In the Greek, when you see lord/kurios, you need to ask what lord is being spoken of.
Even in English we use the word lord not exclusively regarding Jesus. If you ever rented an apartment you would have had a landlord who is the lord of the apartment. Of course he could have Jesus as his lord and it is not hard to see how my lord and the Lord, or the LORD/YHWH is not speaking of the same person.
t8Maybe you should actually read this scripture also.
James 3:1
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.Because a good teacher is also a good listener and obviously you did not read my post or totally missed the point.
Let me try to break it down in a way that maybe can be easier understoood.
Scriptures say that Yeshua emptied himself and became a servant and was found in fashion as a man. Phil 2:5-7.
Now if you notice in the following after he was found in fashion as a man…
Phil 2:8
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
9 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.Now according to the above scripture God exalted him and gave him a name above everyname and that every tongue would confess Yeshua is “Lord”.
When did this happen? Well lets see….
Matt 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.This was after his resurrection, right?
Now lets read your text in its context…
Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.This also was after his resurrection that he “Made” Yeshua Lord and Christ (Messiah).
Since he emptied himself and was found in fashion as a man, he once again returned to his previous place and the Glory he shared with the Father and was exalted to his rightful place as Lord of Lords and King of Kings and having recieved all power in heaven and earth the power he had when he created all things.
Your problem t8 is using this scripture of proof that Yeshua is not God when this scripture is post Phil 2:5-7.
So if David called Yeshua Lord, proving his pre-existence, then to support your theory that the Father made him Lord thefore he cant be God then you will have to come up with a scripture that shows the Father made him Lord somewhere back in eternity before he emtied himself and before he was exalted and made “Lord”.
For this prophetic scripture speaks of his exaltation after his resurrection, post Jn 1:1, 14 and Phil 2:5-8.
WJ….> here is your problem, even when presented with very sound explanations of certain texts, you refuse to even admit that T8 even has a good point with what he posted, and simply ignor it and go on to somthing else, without even reconizing His valid proof's. It's as if you are predesposed to disagree no matter what manor of proof is given. When your pressed to give a direct answer you simply skirt off to something else instead of dealing with the text in question.T8 explained the test clearly and accurately and instead of giving the text another look, you simply skirit off to something else.
Please reconceder what T8
showed you and stay with that text not something else. Try to stay focused on the text at hand.
Just my opinion WJ….. peace to you and yours…..gene
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