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Hi Steve – WELCOME!
Might I encourage you to choose a different user name……we currently have a “Mr. Steve” who goes by “Steve” and he is quite active here. It may become very confusing to keep you both seperate.
Thanks so much,
MandyHi Steve,
You must not debate trinitarians much. They will tell you that when the Apostles baptized in Acts, they were using the trinity formula; that is, they baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost by baptizing in the name of Jesus
. Thus their reasoning is that the Jesus is the name of the trinity.hi,i made a few comments on the doctrine of the trinity and the baptism in jesus name.the doctrine of the trinity is the heart and soul of the roman church.it is a man made doctrine,right from hell.if you have been baptized in the trinity,water baptism,thats not in the bible also.if you have been baptized in the name father son and holy ghost,you have been baptized wrong.baptism in the book of acts was all ways in jesus name.let any one prove me wrong with the king james bible. steve
Quote (steve @ Oct. 13 2007,06:36) hi,i am a first time user.i would like to comment on the doctrine of the trinity.the athanasian creed 293-373ad.this is the catholic faith,which except a man believe faithfully,he cannot be saved.whosoever will be saved,before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith.they argue that god is a trinity and that the trinity is a mystery,no one can understand.if that were true,how could we have faith in a mystery that no one can understand.that does not seem logical and certainly not bibical.one prominent catholic offical stated that evey person who had been baptized according to the trinitarian formula was in reality a catholic,because the trinity is a catholic doctrine and the catholics teach baptism as the entrance into the romam catholic church.thus,the trinity theory was actually cultivated in the development of the romam catholic church.trinitarians teach that jesus is in the godhead,but the bible teaches that the godhead is in jesus.colossians2:9.jesus is the express image of the invisible god.colossians1:15;hebrews1:3.the whole theory of trinitarism is just a theory of mass confusion.it is not biblical and certainly not logical.anyone who can worship a trinity can believe anything.if anyone can show me with the king james bible were anyone was baptized in the trinity formula father,son, and holy ghost,in the bible i will pay him or her five hundred dollars.have a wonderful day.bro.steve
steveYou say…
Quote
if anyone can show me with the king james bible were anyone was baptized in the trinity formula father,son, and holy ghost,in the bible i will pay him or her five hundred dollars.have a wonderful day.bro.steveMatt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:So do you believe the KJV is not true here?
Thats the scripture that backs up baptizing in the trinity. Matt 28:19
I've had people try to explain to me that thats just some kind of authority speech Jesus gave his disciples. All oneness people will swear up and down that you should baptize in the name of Jesus, because Peter did it all through the book of Acts. And, Jesus gave him the keys to heaven so he can let people in and out of heaven according to this scripture.
Matthew 16:19
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.Which, I personally believe that this scripture has a completely different meaning..provided it's even been translated correctly. It appears the Roman Catholic Church has probably had their hands in trying to distort the truth a great many times. So by know who knows how much of the actual bible they've blotted out or added to it, or even thrown away completely to build up their beliefs upon.
Obviously…we need to be baptized. I mean if Jesus was baptized, we should probably be baptized too. Unto what name/or whats actually being said as you go down in the water…its probably in actually a “Six of one, half a dozen of the other” deal. I would like to think the BLOOD OF JESUS is the key to the kingdom of heaven, and that we should do what he said to do…which is:
Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:But when it comes down to it…the baptisim is a signification that you are putting down the old man and being born again in Christ. Turning from sin and Turning to God. Not going to live in sin/or as the old man anymore and, living righteous and living for God. KILLING THE OLD MAN. THE OLD MAN DOES NOT WANT TO DIE.
So, in my personal opinion its really not a big deal weather you kill someone with a shot gun or steak knife…so long as you get them KILLED/DEAD.
All this well this and well that is really a bunch of man made gibberish. When Christ comes back people are still going to be standing around going well do you think we should go with him? Do you think hes the real Christ? Is he going to take those UNCIRCUMZIED MEN WITH HIM TOO? I'm not going with them. They need to do this…and on and on.
It truly will be a miracle when he does come back and sets everyone straight again.
Some how this seems to fit…
You all know the phrase Git-R-Done!
I seen a shirt the other day that said:
God-R-Done!
Quote (Samuel @ Oct. 12 2007,17:40) Some how this seems to fit… You all know the phrase Git-R-Done!
I seen a shirt the other day that said:
God-R-Done!
That-R-Lame!EDIT: Not you, the slogan…
well it's sort of a country boy thing I suppose.
Where I grew up people say stuff like git r done and hows your mom and them all the time.
I'm sorry if that offended anyone. I seen the shirt and thought is was good…in fact I almost bought one.
So, after reading the posts on this site and doing some bible study myself and the papers on this site and other sites. Both the Trinity and the Oneness doctrine leave a lot to be desired.
I'm curious if we even need to call what must then be the truth a doctrine. I mean…it seems to me the very word “doctrine” has labored for itself a name of great strife and blasphemy.
The number one thing I pray about now days is that Jesus will “Shake” the Church…and get them all on the same page…(Belief)…United for divided we will surely all fall. Thats what the devil wants to do …Divide us all …to plot us against one another. And, it pains my soul to see that thats just what he is doing with these doctrines, and false teachings.
It's a device of the Devil I tell you…Satan is a LIAR! He's a big fat stinky no good for nothing LIAR! And, his days are surely numbered. There will be a day that comes when he is bound up for ever and ever.
We as children of GOD must not let this serpent LIE to us like this…surely you all can see that this is the work of Satan himself. Tell him that he's a LIAR! Send him on his way. Kick him out of your mind. For he that is in us, is greater than he that is in the world.
I pray that the church unites …Lord I pray that they do. I wish that you all would pray as well for the same. No matter what you believe Trinity, Oneness, whatever…your goal should be to find out how you can fit into the Church…not that building down the street that you go to every Sunday…THE Church…the body of Christ. My step-mother tells me to not go to church for other people…not to impress them or what not. And, thus I don't, but I do go to church for the benefit of the people that go to church.
I'll have you know right now that I was raised up on a Trinity belief…which I have questions about and I'm convinced there is problems with it as well as where I now go to church….they believe in a Oneness. I don't believe 100% in that either. But i'm going to church there nonetheless. For some reason I feel that the Lord wants me there. He has something for me to do there. If its nothing else but me praying through and getting the spirit all over me…so that he can have it effect those standing around me. Yeah…thats right…if you get a blessing in church …it can also be a blessing to someone else too …if you didn't already know.I don't care what scholar wrote what book, or translated the bible how many times for what religion…or what belief you think it is that you should believe. There is one GOD, no matter how you want to slice it. And everything that is was or that ever will be has came, and will come from that GOD. You should not put your Faith in the Wisdom of MEN. It should be in our LORD JESUS CHRIST, whom was sent by GOD the Father. And the Holy Ghost is sent to you as a comforter. You need to pray that you get the Holy Ghost all over your soul…so that you can love your brother even that you don't agree with him. And, you can unite in prayer and in the body of CHRIST with him. I'm telling you Satan is LYING TO EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US EVERY SINGLE DAY! HES A LIAR! ….You hear that Satan Your a LIAR! Get thee behind us Satan! You have no power here.
This should be all of our prayers. We would probably find that we would prosper a lot more if this were the case…I believe this with all my Faith and Heart. I believe that nothing is to difficult for the Lord thy GOD ALMIGHTY! With him all things are possible! Faith is the key. Faith faith faith. Without faith there are no works and you can not have works with out faith. Satan uses these Doctrines to put Doubt and fear into the hearts and minds of GODS children through Christ. He uses these things to plot us against one another …to strike hate and deceit in our minds and hearts… and to try to get us to sin. I'm telling you with this type of stuff going around you should be praying every single day …crying out with a loud voice to GOD for help.
You can't get nothing with out opening your mouth…just like in the bible:
Mark 10
47And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out, and say, Jesus, thou son of David, have mercy on me.48And many charged him that he should hold his peace: but he cried the more a great deal, Thou son of David, have mercy on me.
I'm sorry but, I feel extremely compelled to say these things. I feel the spirit has laid them on me to tell you all.
Pray, for the church, pray for the Whole Armor of GOD:Ephesians 6 (King James Version)
13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Brothers and Sisters it pains my soul what I feel, and to see the works of Satan in our mist. Satan is a LIAR! Tell him that before you go to bed tonight…tell him that he's a LIAR!
not just a liar ,but a thief and a murderer from the begining. prise you father and thank you for samual with his faith instead of many over learned teachings of men. please lead him into all truth ,for you are the spirit of TRUTH.praise you father thank you jesus, praise you jesus thank you father
Quote trinitarians teach that jesus is in the godhead,but the bible teaches that the godhead is in jesus.colossians2:9.jesus is the express image of the invisible god.colossians1:15;hebrews1:3.the whole theory of trinitarism is just a theory of mass confusion Hi Steve;
I've never posted to you so I'll introduce myself as Mr. Steve for the sake of clarity.
You've noticed a profound truth that is actually so simple a child could understand it. I John says that there are three that bear witness in heaven; the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. There's your Godhead. Christ was the Son of God. He never claimed to be any of the above, but all of the above was manifest in him. Ironically, many hold Jesus is God, a claim he expressly denied. Some hold he was the Word in heaven prior, a claim he also denied when he said the words he spoke were not even his words but the Father who sent him. Some also hold that Christ was a spirit prior, when he never made such a claim. Indeed, by all accounts Christ was the Son of God, is the Son of God, and will forever be the Son of God. He will not change as God will never change.
Jesus always declared God to be his Father and that he was sent by the Father to complete a work which he finished. I believe that if you hold that Christ's beginning was only in Mary you make a declaration that Jesus never stated. He spoke many times where he was from, who he was and where he was returning without reference to Mary. A person only has one origin. Jesus said he came down from heaven. I believe this is the only way to reconcile the scriptures.
Take care
Mr. Steve
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Oct. 15 2007,14:43) Quote trinitarians teach that jesus is in the godhead,but the bible teaches that the godhead is in jesus.colossians2:9.jesus is the express image of the invisible god.colossians1:15;hebrews1:3.the whole theory of trinitarism is just a theory of mass confusion Hi Steve;
I've never posted to you so I'll introduce myself as Mr. Steve for the sake of clarity.
You've noticed a profound truth that is actually so simple a child could understand it. I John says that there are three that bear witness in heaven; the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. There's your Godhead. Christ was the Son of God. He never claimed to be any of the above, but all of the above was manifest in him. Ironically, many hold Jesus is God, a claim he expressly denied. Some hold he was the Word in heaven prior, a claim he also denied when he said the words he spoke were not even his words but the Father who sent him. Some also hold that Christ was a spirit prior, when he never made such a claim. Indeed, by all accounts Christ was the Son of God, is the Son of God, and will forever be the Son of God. He will not change as God will never change.
Jesus always declared God to be his Father and that he was sent by the Father to complete a work which he finished. I believe that if you hold that Christ's beginning was only in Mary you make a declaration that Jesus never stated. He spoke many times where he was from, who he was and where he was returning without reference to Mary. A person only has one origin. Jesus said he came down from heaven. I believe this is the only way to reconcile the scriptures.
Take care
Mr. Steve
Mr. Steve,I cannot believe that you just referenced the most spurious of verses (1 John 5:7) in the KJV! How long have you been a student of the Bible? From wikipedia
The Comma Johanneum is a comma (a short clause) contained in most translations of the First Epistle of John published from 1522 until the latter part of the nineteenth century, owing to the widespread use of the third edition of the Textus Receptus (TR) as the sole source for translation. In translations containing the clause, such as the King James Version, 1 John 5:7–8 reads as follows (with the Comma in bold print):
5:7 “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”The resulting passage is an explicit reference to the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and for this reason some Christians are resistant to the elimination of the Comma from modern Biblical translations. Nonetheless, nearly all recent translations have removed this clause, as it does not appear in older copies of the Epistle and it is not present in the passage as quoted by any of the early Church Fathers, who would have had plenty of reason to quote it in their Trinitarian debates (for example, with the Arians), had it existed then. Most Churches now agree that the theology contained in the Comma is true, but that the Comma is not an original part of the Epistle of John.
Egad.
'm currently not sure about a Trinity belief…I believe there is one GOD…and he has a Son which came from him…which most people know as Jesus Christ or Yashaua. I believe the Holy Ghost also comes from GOD.
However I don't believe that Jesus is GOD himself. If this is the case, then he would know all things just as GOD does. And, we clearly see that he don't know the time when his Father (GOD) will tell him to go get his Church. Jesus said I'll send to you a comforter…which we know as the Holy Ghost. Obviously, what ever a Father has he gives to his Son, this don't make Jesus GOD but I'm quite sure he has access to what ever His father has. I believe that GOD gave him all things…or all power when he was raised from the dead and is now Glorified in Heaven at the right hand of the Father.
I think I have a much better understanding about GOD and Jesus, but I'm still confused about the Holy Ghost…except I know that it feels really good when it gets all over you! I would say it came from the Father…and was Given to his Son to Pass out to his Church possibly…but i'm not 100% sure on that. I'm just glad we have it.Another reason why i'm not too quick to believe the Trinity is because from what I can tell the RCC started this doctrine.
And, the Oneness belief…well it has some explaining to do as well.
I believe that if your saved …you've repented of your sins and accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour, been Filled with the Holy Ghost, and for the sake of some peoples belief …Baptized in water in Jesus' Name. Your on your way to Heaven.
I really don't think GOD is going to hold it against you if you can't figure out for sure a mystery of GOD.There's a lot of things that a lot of religions make really hard. I don't understand why people have to make things so hard. They act like the old priests that were running things when Jesus came around…adding things to the Law trying to make it harder and harder to live for GOD…and Jesus set 'em straight.
You know what….Brothers and Sisters?
He's gonna do it again, when he splits those clouds open and calls for his Church theres gonna be some more settin' straight that goes on at that time too!
Hi Samuel This is something my Husband wrote, I thought that you might benefit from it. W H O I S G O D ?
Ask this question today in our 21st Century and the answer would be obvious. Most people would point upwards and say, “God is God”. 2000 years ago the answer would not have been so obvious. The Romans had many gods; a god of thunder, a god of lightening, a god of rain, a god of war, a god of love, ect, ect. There is something else people associate with the word god, supernatural powers. In ancient times people would chisel a statue out of rock, or carve a figure out of wood, or shape a figure out of metal, and then call it their god. They would then worship and sacrifice before this god. We may laugh at that today, but then, this was serious business, because people were sacrificed to these gods. But in those days there were also none deities’ gods. People with great political power were gods, so were strong military leaders, or wealthy businessmen. They were all considered mighty men, gods, minus the supernatural powers.
Ps. 82: 1 “ God (the Almighty God) standeth in the congregation of the mighty, he judges among the gods.”
v. 6 “ I have said, ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High,”
Today we no longer think of them as gods, if we work for them, we would call them Boss. And really that is what the word god stands for, a strong one, a powerful one, and a mighty one. Except when we speak of thee God in heaven, he is the Almighty God, the all-powerful one.
Ps. 86:8 “Among the gods there is none like unto thee O LORD…”
And just as all the gods had names, so did the Almighty God.
Ps. 83:18 “ That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most High over all the earth.”
Is. 42:8 “ I am the LORD (Jehovah): that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images”.
“Jehovah” is the name of the Almighty God, “Yahweh” in Hebrew. The name occurs 6823 times in the O.T., and yet in my bible, the King James, it is only written four times; other translation mentions the name at all. No wonder people think “God” is God’s name. There is a reason why God’s name was omitted. The “Scribes”, a Jewish religious sect, in charge of copying the scriptures, had such a reverence for the name, a fear of using the name in vain, they would not speak it or write it; and so they replaced the name Jehovah with “the LORD”, LORD in capital letters. So, where ever you read “the LORD”, you should know it should say, “Jehovah”
Why can nobody else call himself by that name? Because the definition of the name is;
The everlasting one;
The self-existing one;
The immortal one;
What this means is simply this; God’s existence depends on nothing and no one else; He has always existed, and he can never die, he is immortal, death is impossible. The bible also speaks of only one God.
Ex. 8:10 “… know that there is none like unto the LORD (Jehovah) God.”
Deut. 4:35”…know that the LORD (Jehovah) he is God, there is none else beside him”.
Is. 40:13 “Who has directed the spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?”
v. 25 “ To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? Saith the Holy One “.
Mark 12:32“…well, Master, thou has said the truth, for there is one God and there is none other but he.”
1 Cor. 8:4 “… and that there is none other God but one”.
v. 5 “ For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many “.)
v. 6 “ But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”.
Why is it, that we have so many clear scriptures that teach us, there is only one God? And why do we not insist on clear scriptural prove, that there are three? There is absolutely nothing in these scriptures that indicate there are three persons. Infect they emphasize that Jehovah, the Father, is God. God has no equal. Jesus is his son, the Holy Spirit, which doesn’t even have a name, is God’s mind, not a person.
History tells us, a triune god is nothing new. The Egyptians worshiped a triune god long before Christ; Osiris the father, Horus the son, and Ises the virgin. I find the resemblance to the present doctrine of the trinity very interesting, to say the least. India too, is worshiping a triad god, Siva, Brahma and Vishnu. So did the Babylonians, Ishtar, Sin and Shamash. Doesn’t that make you wonder at all? We read in,
1 John 4:12 “No one has seen God at any time…”
If Jesus were “God”, that scripture would not be true, especially since we read in,
John 1:18 “No man hath seen God at any time…”
Paul says, whether we call someone else god, either in heaven or hear on earth, there is only one God, the Father, the Almighty God. Why do we call God, Father? The definition of the word is, life giver. All life begins with God, and that includes his son Jesus. Why is Jesus called the son? The son is he who receives life from the Father. That is why we read in;
John 3:16 “ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son…”
v. 17 “ For God sent not his son into the world…”
God gave his son, God sent his son. In other words, Jesus did not become the Fathers son when he was born of Mary; he was his son long before then. After all, did he not create everything?
Col. 1:16 “ For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth…”
If Jesus had become a son when he was born of Mary; should not the Holy Spirit be his father?
Mat. 1:18 “Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary
was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of
the Holy Ghost.”
You must have wondered about that yourself. Speaking of the Holy Spirit; is he God? Is he a person? Do we know his name? Does he have a name? I don’t mean “helper” or “comforter”; those are not names, that is what God’s Holy Spirit does, he helps us, and comforts us. Should it not surprise us that everything in the Universe has a name?
Ps. 147:4 “ He telleth the number of the stars, he calleth them all by their names”.
Except the one (person?), whom we credit with being most influential in our Christian life, the Holy Spirit? Why would we even think that our God, who is all wise and all-powerful, would need another person to do all his work? When God wants something done, all he has to do speak the word and it is done;
Ps. 33:9 “For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.”
Let me make another point.
Rev. 3:1 “And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; these things says he that has the seven Spirits of God…”
Why haven’t we heart about God’s seven Spirits? Are they all persons? Seven is God’s number of perfection. The seven Spirits of God only emphasize his perfect Holy Spirit. Paul says there is a spirit in man;
1 Cor. 2:11 “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which
is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”
This spirit in us, should we ask who is he? Or should we ask what is it? This spirit is our mind; it is what sets us apart from the animals. This mind enables us to learn how to read and write to calculate, to think, to plan and build, with it we make choices, all the things God does. That is the image of God, he has created us in, but it is not another person. We influence other people by example and by what we teach them. God influences us with his Holy Mind, his Holy Spirit. Paul writes to the Philippians;
Phil. 2:5 “ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.’
This mind that was in Jes
us was the mind of God, Gods spirit, his Holy Spirit.
Why would Paul say?
Eph. 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
Eph. 4:6 “ One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all”.
Col. 1:3 “We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
And what else can this next scripture mean except what it says;
1 Cor. 15:28 “And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also
himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”Some people think, God is to complicated to be understood, that’s because some people have made God to complicated to be understood. God in his word, the bible, has given us everything we need to know about him; if we go beyond that, its like going to the moon, trying to find out how life began.
Anyone that dares to tamper and distort these scriptures should keep in mind what Paul says in,
Gal. 1:9 “As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”
Those who call themselves teachers should take this scripture very serious.
Peace and Love Mrs.:D
1 John 5:20
20We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
who is the true God mentioned in that verse? Jesus or the Father? tnx.
Welcome Jhen,
I believe it is the Father who is God over all. I also believe it is the Father because Jesus calls him the One TRUE God in John 17:3.Quote Mr. Steve, I cannot believe that you just referenced the most spurious of verses (1 John 5:7) in the KJV! How long have you been a student of the Bible? From wikipedia
The Comma Johanneum is a comma (a short clause) contained in most translations of the First Epistle of John published from 1522 until the latter part of the nineteenth century, owing to the widespread use of the third edition of the Textus Receptus (TR) as the sole source for translation. In translations containing the clause, such as the King James Version, 1 John 5:7–8 reads as follows (with the Comma in bold print):
5:7 “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”The resulting passage is an explicit reference to the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and for this reason some Christians are resistant to the elimination of the Comma from modern Biblical translations. Nonetheless, nearly all recent translations have removed this clause, as it does not appear in older copies of the Epistle and it is not present in the passage as quoted by any of the early Church Fathers, who would have had plenty of reason to quote it in their Trinitarian debates (for example, with the Arians), had it existed then. Most Churches now agree that the theology contained in the Comma is true, but that the Comma is not an original part of the Epistle of John.
I've heard that espoused before. However, if you break down the elements the result is the same. The Father is God, his Word is God, and the Holy Spirit is also cited as the Spirit of God, so all are God. Just as the seed is part of the Apple. Jesus said the seed is the word of God. Of course, God is a Spirit.
Mr. Steve
Mr. Steve
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