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Gen You amaze me, God is really working in you. It is God's Holy Spirit that makes us all one with each other. You are so right. My wish is now that W.J. would understand it. It is not that hard.
W.J. Jesus has said so many times that He is the Son of God and in Ephesians it says. There is one faith, one Baptism, one Lord(Jesus) and one Father who is above all. God is a title used for many in the Bible. Even Satan is called God of this world. You know that the Father has a name and so does the Son. So why are you stumbling over the word God?Peace and Love Mrs.
WJ;
You missed the entire essence of my post, which you usually do.
If you had ears to hear, this is what you should have heard. The teaching that Jesus is God tends to cause people to believe that Jesus did the works he did because he was God. Even though the fullness of God does dwells in Christ, Jesus said the works that he did would also be done by those who believe, and greater works because he was going to the Father.
How you could hear me say, no man can follow God unless they follow Jesus who is a man, is express evidence that you perceive what you want to see. Your inference then becomes an argument that those in the old testament could not follow God because he was God. It's easy to sense the anymosity inside you. You're just crying out to hear me say that Christ was just a man. Why? I don't know. Probably, so you can go back to your trinity people and declare that I believe that Christ is no more than just a man and long live the trinity. WJ, hear this, Christ is the Son of God, not God. I know how much you cringe at that statement because it rattles your love of the trinity heresy, but it's true. Heresy is a false doctrine. It doesn't necessarily mean that the people that believe are bad or realize it's heresy. There are some very good Christians that believe in the trinity heresy. I believe God loves them, even though they inadvertently deny the sonship of Christ by stating he is eternally co-existent with the Father.
With respect to following God, Jesus made it clear that no man comes to the Father except by him. I follow God through his Son Jesus Christ. The instructions for following Christ are found in the scriptures. I strong suggest the gospel of John for you. Jesus said follow me and I will make you to become fishers of men. Therefore, I follow Christ because God sent his Son Jesus into the world and the Father said “Hear ye him”. I should also mention that he said Jesus was his Son, in whom he was well pleased. In case you didn't perceive that truth, Jesus pleases the Father.
But by your inference, a twist is necessary because if Jesus is God then this whole truth of Christ pleasing God becomes is akin to saying God pleases God, which in any language or tongue would be craziness. Which brings up a very long series of questions, none of which you can answer without perverting the scriptures.
If Jesus is God, which you declare, how is it that Jesus worships God? Does God worship himself? Does he obey himself? Does he send himself? Does God pray to himself? Does God live by every word that proceedeth out of his own mouth of God? Isn't God self-existent? If Christ is God, why does he live by God the Father? If he is God, wouldn't he just live without being dependent on another God? Why does Jesus refer to the Father as his God, if he is God? Is Christ a liar? The trinity actually makes Christ a liar, but it is unintentional, don't get upset.
WJ, Jesus is the express image of God. Does that make him the Father? When Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father, did that make Jesus the Father, or did they see the express image of the Father? I hope that helps.
Is taking the place of the Father or the Spirit an issue before us? It's not. I hope that helps, too.
Again, I follow God through Jesus Christ and doing what he taught, which was the will of the Father which is in heaven.
You make Jesus God and you accuse me of making Christ just a man. You must have a real distaste for believing that Christ is the Son of God.
By the way, I went on the website that you suggested for understanding what you believe. After viewing it, I sent them a list of questions. I'll bet you can guess what they were. You can also bet they refused to answer.
The real reason you don't like to respond to me WJ is because you are baffled by me. It's not actually me, it's the word of God, which you believe you understand. I believe you are sincere, but sincerely wrong. I do give you partial credit for your sincerity. (just kidding WJ, don't get all worked up)
I believe that many years of wrong doctrine can take many years to overcome.
What I would suggest for you is to go over some of the questions that I've posted to you and honestly discuss them. Try to break down the elements of what you believe and see if every element is supported by scripture. Start with what Christ taught with respect to every verse that had to do with his relationship with the Father.
The website you referred me to makes a substantial error in attempting to prove Jesus is God. They suggest showing people in Isaiah where the scripture says that God is the first and the last. Then show them Revelation where Jesus says he's the beginning and the end. Then conclude both are the same God. Do you see anything in that argument that is missing? It's not based on what Jesus said in the gospels. It contradicts what Christ taught. Jesus was completely dependent on God. Revelation is the fulfillment of the glorification of God in Christ, but he is still the Son of God. That takes some knowledge of the scriptures to understand, but you can see how easily it is to error when you don't start with what Jesus taught and move on from there.
My opinion is that you won't see the scriptures clearly with respect to the issues we have discussed until you disassociate yourself with those who are holding you back. Peer pressure is just to great in most cases.
However, what you'll probably do is ignore my post and write a 10,000 word essay to Kejonn. Have fun arguing whatever point you're trying to debate. The posts are so long and hard to follow I've given up on most of them half way through. I hope you type fast.
Take Care
Steven
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Sep. 26 2007,09:03) WJ; You missed the entire essence of my post, which you usually do.
If you had ears to hear, this is what you should have heard. The teaching that Jesus is God tends to cause people to believe that Jesus did the works he did because he was God. Even though the fullness of God does dwells in Christ, Jesus said the works that he did would also be done by those who believe, and greater works because he was going to the Father.
How you could hear me say, no man can follow God unless they follow Jesus who is a man, is express evidence that you perceive what you want to see. Your inference then becomes an argument that those in the old testament could not follow God because he was God. It's easy to sense the anymosity inside you. You're just crying out to hear me say that Christ was just a man. Why? I don't know. Probably, so you can go back to your trinity people and declare that I believe that Christ is no more than just a man and long live the trinity. WJ, hear this, Christ is the Son of God, not God. I know how much you cringe at that statement because it rattles your love of the trinity heresy, but it's true. Heresy is a false doctrine. It doesn't necessarily mean that the people that believe are bad or realize it's heresy. There are some very good Christians that believe in the trinity heresy. I believe God loves them, even though they inadvertently deny the sonship of Christ by stating he is eternally co-existent with the Father.
With respect to following God, Jesus made it clear that no man comes to the Father except by him. I follow God through his Son Jesus Christ. The instructions for following Christ are found in the scriptures. I strong suggest the gospel of John for you. Jesus said follow me and I will make you to become fishers of men. Therefore, I follow Christ because God sent his Son Jesus into the world and the Father said “Hear ye him”. I should also mention that he said Jesus was his Son, in whom he was well pleased. In case you didn't perceive that truth, Jesus pleases the Father.
But by your inference, a twist is necessary because if Jesus is God then this whole truth of Christ pleasing God becomes is akin to saying God pleases God, which in any language or tongue would be craziness. Which brings up a very long series of questions, none of which you can answer without perverting the scriptures.
If Jesus is God, which you declare, how is it that Jesus worships God? Does God worship himself? Does he obey himself? Does he send himself? Does God pray to himself? Does God live by every word that proceedeth out of his own mouth of God? Isn't God self-existent? If Christ is God, why does he live by God the Father? If he is God, wouldn't he just live without being dependent on another God? Why does Jesus refer to the Father as his God, if he is God? Is Christ a liar? The trinity actually makes Christ a liar, but it is unintentional, don't get upset.
WJ, Jesus is the express image of God. Does that make him the Father? When Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father, did that make Jesus the Father, or did they see the express image of the Father? I hope that helps.
Is taking the place of the Father or the Spirit an issue before us? It's not. I hope that helps, too.
Again, I follow God through Jesus Christ and doing what he taught, which was the will of the Father which is in heaven.
You make Jesus God and you accuse me of making Christ just a man. You must have a real distaste for believing that Christ is the Son of God.
By the way, I went on the website that you suggested for understanding what you believe. After viewing it, I sent them a list of questions. I'll bet you can guess what they were. You can also bet they refused to answer.
The real reason you don't like to respond to me WJ is because you are baffled by me. It's not actually me, it's the word of God, which you believe you understand. I believe you are sincere, but sincerely wrong. I do give you partial credit for your sincerity. (just kidding WJ, don't get all worked up)
I believe that many years of wrong doctrine can take many years to overcome.
What I would suggest for you is to go over some of the questions that I've posted to you and honestly discuss them. Try to break down the elements of what you believe and see if every element is supported by scripture. Start with what Christ taught with respect to every verse that had to do with his relationship with the Father.
The website you referred me to makes a substantial error in attempting to prove Jesus is God. They suggest showing people in Isaiah where the scripture says that God is the first and the last. Then show them Revelation where Jesus says he's the beginning and the end. Then conclude both are the same God. Do you see anything in that argument that is missing? It's not based on what Jesus said in the gospels. It contradicts what Christ taught. Jesus was completely dependent on God. Revelation is the fulfillment of the glorification of God in Christ, but he is still the Son of God. That takes some knowledge of the scriptures to understand, but you can see how easily it is to error when you don't start with what Jesus taught and move on from there.
My opinion is that you won't see the scriptures clearly with respect to the issues we have discussed until you disassociate yourself with those who are holding you back. Peer pressure is just to great in most cases.
However, what you'll probably do is ignore my post and write a 10,000 word essay to Kejonn. Have fun arguing whatever point you're trying to debate. The posts are so long and hard to follow I've given up on most of them half way through. I hope you type fast.
Take Care
Steven
mr steveNo I didnt miss the essence of your post.
But in fact you have not addressed my post but only continue your patronizing and condescension to me and all Trinitarians.
The reason I dont respond to some of your post is this “Better than you ” attitude. The one that says we are blind but you see.
kejonn while he is very strong and straight forward, he at least understands the difference in having respect for a believer in “The Son of God” one who has confessed Jesus as his Saviour and one who is blatantly decieved and evil!
Now while you may not understand how my theology is different than yours and seemingly I serve a different Jesus than you, I see no reason for all the proud talk. For it seems if one dosnt agree with you then this is your response…
Quote
If you had ears to hear, this is what you should have heard….In case you didn't perceive that truth, Jesus pleases the Father.
That takes some knowledge of the scriptures to understand,
There are some very good Christians that believe in the trinity heresy.
Hence, any doctrine that does not hold that Christ was at some point in time begotten by God is anti-christ since it denies that Christ is the Son of God.
Now from these statements I can deduce that I like all Trinitarians cant hear, are steeped in heresy and in fact of the anti-christ.But since you are so confident that you have “The Truth” then why dont you and I speak to the moderators on this sight , create a few rules and have at it in the debates thread, and you wil
l have oportunity to prove your statements with scriptures!We could name it “Trinitarian verses Non-Trinitarian”.
What do you think? Just me and you and the scriptures and the Holy Spirit?
Whatever you decide, I will answer your post when I have finished my answer to kejonn.
Blessings
Ps. 82: 1 “ God (the almighty God) standeth in the congregation of the mighty, he judges among the gods.”
v. 6 “ I have said, ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High,”
Today we no longer think of them as gods, if we work for them, we would call them Boss. And really that is what the word god stands for, a strong one, a powerful one, a mighty one. Except when we speak of the God in heaven, he is the Almighty God, the all-powerful one.
Ps. 86:8 “Among the gods there is none like unto thee O Lord…”
And just as all the gods had names, so did the Almighty God.
Ps. 83:18 “ That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most High over all the earth.”
Is. 42:8 “ I am the LORD (Jehovah): that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images”.
Whose name is Jehovah, why can nobody else call himself by that name? Because the definition of the name is;
The everlasting one;
The self-existing one;
The immortal one;
What this means is simply this; God’s existence depends on nothing and no one else; He has always existed, and he can never die, he is immortal, death is impossible. The bible also speaks of only one God.
Ex. 8:10 “… know that there is none like unto the LORD (Jehovah) God.”
Deut. 4:35”…know that the LORD (Jehovah) he is God, there is none else beside him”.
Is. 40:13 “Who has directed the spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?”
v. 25 “ To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? Saith the Holy One “.
Mark 12:32“…well, Master, thou has said the truth, for there is one God and there is none other but he.”
1 Cor. 8:4 “… and that there is none other God but one”.
v. 5 “ For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many “.)
v. 6 “ But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”.
Why is it, that we have so many clear scriptures that teach us, there is only one God? And we insist on no scriptural prove, there are three? There is absolutely nothing in these scriptures that indicate there are three persons. Infect they emphasize that Jehovah, the Father, is God. God has no equal. Jesus is his son, the Holy Spirit, which doesn’t even have a name, is God’s mind, not a person. Paul says, whether we call someone else god, either in heaven or hear on earth, there is only one God, the Father, the Almighty God. Why do we call God, Father? The definition of the word is, life giver. All life begins with God, and that includes his son Jesus. Why is Jesus called the son? The son is he who receives life from the Father. That is why we read in;
John 3:16 “ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son…”
v. 17 “ For God sent not his son into the world…”
God gave his son, God sent his son. In other words, Jesus did not become the Fathers son when he was born of Mary; he was his son long before then. After all, did he not create everything?
Col. 1:16 “ For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth…”
If Jesus had become a son when he was born of Mary; should he not be the son of the Holy Spirit?
Mat. 1:18 “Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary
was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of
the Holy Ghost.”
You must have wondered about that yourself. Speaking of the Holy Spirit; is he God? Is he a person? Do we know his name? Does he have a name? I don’t mean “helper” or “comforter”; those are not names, that is what the Holy Spirit does. Should it not surprise us that everything in the Universe has a name?
Ps. 147:4 “ He telleth the number of the stars, he calleth them all by their names”.
Except the one (person?), whom we credit with being most influential in our Christian life, the Holy Spirit? Why would we even think that our God, who is all wise and all-powerful, would need another person to do all his work? When God wants something done, all he has to do speak the word and it is done;
Ps. 33:9 “For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.”
Let me make another point.
Rev. 3:1 “And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; these things says he that has the seven Spirits of God…”
Why haven’t we heart about God’s seven Spirits? Are they all persons? Seven is God’s number of perfection. The seven Spirits of God only emphasize his perfect Holy Spirit. Paul says there is a spirit in man;
1 Cor. 2:11 “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which
is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”
This spirit in us, should we ask who is he? Or should we ask what is it? This spirit is our mind; it is what sets us apart from the animals. This mind enables us to learn how to read and write, to calculate, to think, to plan and build, with it we make choices, all the things God does. That is the image of God he created us in, but it is not another person. We influence other people by example and by what we teach them. God influences us with his Holy Mind, his Holy Spirit. Paul writes to the Philippians;
Phil. 2:5 “ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.’
This mind that was in Jesus was the mind of God, Gods spirit, his Holy Spirit.
Why would Paul say?
Eph. 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
Eph. 4:6 “ One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all”.
Col. 1:3 “We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
And what else can this next scripture mean except what it says;
1 Cor. 15:28 “And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also
himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”
Anyone that dares to tamper and distort these scriptures should keep in mind what Paul says in,
Gal. 1:9 “As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”
Those who call themselves teachers, should take this scripture very serious.Peace and Love Mrs.
im4truth
You say…
Quote
You must have wondered about that yourself. Speaking of the Holy Spirit; is he God? Is he a person? Do we know his name? Does he have a name? I don’t mean “helper” or “comforter”; those are not names, that is what the Holy Spirit does. Should it not surprise us that everything in the Universe has a name?Tell me! Do you know what the Fathers name is? Can you show me a NT scripture that reveals the Fathers name?
If you say “YHWH” you would be close, However, that is the tetragrammaton.
What is his name?
Wouldnt you think it is important for God who is all powerfull to have preserved his Holy Name like he did the scriptures.
Could it be he wanted us to know his Son who is God!
Why didnt any of the Gospels record Jesus speaking the Fathers name at least once?
Jesus said…
Jn 17:6
I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.Interesting that he gave them the Fathers name yet we find nowhere in 66 books the Name of the Father.
What we do see is Jesus. His name was preached.
Have you considered that 3 verses before this verse Jesus said….
Jn 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.He mentions his own name and not the Fathers.
John also wrote this scripture concerning the only true God?
1 Jn 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.There is only one God and one Spirit that lives in me and I in him.
Yet we see in scripture that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit lives in us!
Amen IAM4TRUTH,
Very well said, the spirit of God is truly working in you, Steve , Kjonn, and among others.I believe there are many many things that God wants us to learn in the NT about him, his Christ and our Salvation.
But I truly believe that you must know what God said in the Old Testament in order to get the full understanding of his words.
God has devoted over 40 chapters in His written word to the TARBENACLE of Moses.
Jesus is the exact PATTERN of the OT.
One aspect of this relationship was Gods requirement for complete obedience. God told Moses to create the tabernacle EXACTLY the way He commanded. It was not to stray from Gods blueprint.
Make this tabernacle and all its furnishings exactly like the pattern I will show you. (Exodus 25:9)
The wilderness tabernacle is a projection of Gods redemptive plan.
In Jn1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.This word dwelling is the same word for tabernacle in the OT. In other words, God came in living flesh to dwell or to tabernacle among His people. As He walked upon the earth and lived among the Jews,Christ Himself fulfilled the picture of the OT tabernacle. In that and many other ways, the tabernacle really was a prophetic projection of the Lords redemptive plan.
God is making you/us into the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ”. He makes you into the Body, that is growing up into the Head. That is what the Church age is all about.
Haggai prophesied that the glory of the latter house shall be much greater than the glory of the former. So the Glory departed from Zerubbabel's temple.
In Jesus day, Herod tried 2rebuild. He took the residue of that and restored it to get favor with Israel. Jesus walked in there in Matt 23.
The Glory did come 2 that temple and He walked in on two legs.
Matt 23:37,38
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but U were not willing!
38 See! Your house is left to you desolate,
That is Herods temple.
39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!'
Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple. Jesus was the glory and He departed from the temple. John said, “We beheld the glory and He dwelt, or tabernacled, among us”. He said, “Your house is left unto you desolate” and He turned and walked out of it. The Glory never came back to that house again, nor will it ever come back, to a temple made with man's hands. They didnt even know it. John chapter 2. Jesus from that moment on was THE DWELLING PLACE of God.
Jn2:18 The Jews answered and said to Him, “What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?”
19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.
He was the TEMPLE of God. Jn 1:14 said, “We beheld His glory.”
See, He was the temple. When He went to Calvarys cross, the Glory departed. He bore our sins and carried our sorrows and on the Cross of Calvary He said, “My God, My God”. It got dark and He became like us.
He came back and He was glorified again. He is the head of the very Church that you and I are. See, there are patterns all over the place. The Glory came to every temple and left all the way through. The Glory was headed to and is come to the Church.
2 Corinthians 6:16
You are the temple of the living God, as God has said, I will live in them and dwell in them and walk in them and I will be their God and they shall be my people.
He is saying, “I am going to move down there”.
Rev. 21 is God showing John the end result of the purpose of God in a people. Remember, God said, “I want a people in my image. Let us make man in our image. Let them have dominion”.
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. (Rev. 21:3)
Sounds a whole lot like what Paul wrote in 2 Cor 6. See, Rev. 21 is a picture of the Church completion.
11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal.
Having the Glory of God. Glory means “apparent”. Having the appearance of God in them.
We too can BE part of GOD'S dwelling place when we follow Jesus. But it doesn't mean we become God YAWEH, but we will partake his character, his holiness, we become children of God, like Jesus.
I hope this help, it truly blessed me when I heard this from a preacher, then reading it for myself.
W.J. Why are you denying that the Father is greater then the Son? You nick picking. Rather then understanding what the scriptures say.
In the old king James you will find what the Fathers name is. Exodus 6:3,Ps.83:18,26:4
Why do you want to have it out the N.T.
In the Foot notes of the Old King James it says out of respect and fear that the translator's would spell Gods name wrong they called Him LORD. When LORD is all capitalized it is always the Father.W.J. But if the Father is called LORD or Jehovah what does that have to do with everything else that the trinity Doctrine teaches.
I think that I told you before until my Husband and I were in our Fourth's we were members of the Catholic Church. I taught that doctrine to 4 of our children. Until one day God opened our minds.
Did I like not going to the only Church we ever knew and thought to be the only true Church, that we lost all our friends because of this, of course not. But once you see, you can't deny. But you have to have an open mind. All our children are still out there. One Son belongs to the Baptist Church and so do 3 Grandsons. Our only Daughter does not go at all and neither do the other 2 Sons of ours.
So I know were you are at. I wish I could convince you and all of our children what I believe to be true.
No offence attended. This is just what we believe along with so many others. And we have scriptures to prove it.Peace and Love Mrs.:D
seeking the truth Thank you for your reply. You have a good understanding of the scriptures, how long have you been studying the Word of God? Good to hear from you Sister.
Peace and Love Mrs.:D
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 26 2007,10:15) But since you are so confident that you have “The Truth” then why dont you and I speak to the moderators on this sight , create a few rules and have at it in the debates thread, and you will have oportunity to prove your statements with scriptures! We could name it “Trinitarian verses Non-Trinitarian”.
What do you think? Just me and you and the scriptures and the Holy Spirit?
Whatever you decide, I will answer your post when I have finished my answer to kejonn.
Blessings
You can't prove “Trinitarian verses Non-Trinitarian” in a debate. The word Trinity and it's meaning is not taught.You might need to call it something like, “Creeds vs Scripture”, or “Do creeds match scripture”.
Hi IAM4TRUTH,
I first felt God calling me to Himself in high school. I had grown up attending a church that practiced a works-based self-righteous theology and can recall standing in mass one day when I was about 16, listening to people recite the Apostle's Creed by rote – you know, “I believe in One God, the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen . . . .” I looked around at others and at their faces that were blank of any sense that they understood or felt the weight of the words – I didn't KNOW their hearts, of course, and this really wasn't about them – I began to reflect on whether I believed and felt the weight of the words. I began responding to God then, by seeking for Truth.
During college, I became what I now recognize as a false convert to Christianity. I “accepted Jesus” into my heart. Rather than recognizing my need for a Savior and repenting of my sins and turning to God, I just sortof intellectually accepted to the reality of Him and got caught up in a moment of emotional response when I “accepted” Him. Rather than die to myself and live for Him, I tried to add Him to my life, probably in the hope that He would make my life better. I was not saved, but thought I was, which is dangerous (and which is probably why I have such a heart for false converts now). I had no true understanding of my own depravity or my need for God.
How do I know I was a false convert? I didn't know it then, of course. Looking back, I know I was not truly saved, for two reasons – 1) I was still unrepentently involved in ongoing sin and it didn't bother me a whole lot – I had a lot of excuses for it; IF the Holy Spirit had been living inside me, it would have grieved it and convicted me, but I was comfortable in it; 2) I turned completely away from God during my second year of college, moving so far away from God that I eventually began practicing Zen Buddhism – I was clearly searching, just in the very wrong direction. I had been a “stony ground” hearer of the gospel.
It wasn’t until a year ago, when I began to recognize the state of my eternal soul. I can’t give a specific date for my conversion, but it was sometime in the Spring of 2006 that I realized I was living outside of God’s will, repented of my sin and put my trust in the Savior, Jesus Christ and began living fully for Him. But in order to do so I needed to know who my God was in a personal level, I needed to know what the WILL was, his purpose for me.
Since being born again, God has been working on me in several ways – I am nowhere near perfection, but, by His grace and mercy, my direction has changed and I am growing in holiness. For just a couple of specific areas in which God has worked (and continues to work in me, as these are struggles), He seems to have placed people and events in my life that have help me to grow in knowledge of him, his character, his WORDS. It is only by the work of his Spirit that I am gaining spirtual wisdom of his nature. I thank and praise God for the work He has done in me and continues to do so as He forms me in His Son's likeness. Growth is never easy, but is always worthwhile, if we are growing to be a temple of God.
Jesus is the Pattern that we need to follow, God was pleased with him because he did exactly what the Father did.
How many of you know that we are the spiritual houses of Father God?
Father lives, not in a building made with mortar and brick, but in a people.
So, when you study the tabernacles that were made in the physical, we see types and shadows and real truths of what is true of us as the spiritual temple.
The house of Father God, is not for man.
You can tell where people are living in spiritual things. You can tell whether they are caught up in the carnal or the spiritual, by how they perceive the truth of Scripture.
For instance, if you believe that Father is building a Church for man, then you are living in a lower dimension of spiritual revelation. The house that God is building is for Him. Who lives in Father's house? He does! We are part of Father's house and, as a collective unit, we become a habitation of God.
Ephesians 2:19
19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,
21 in whom the whole building, being joined together, grows INTO a holy temple in the Lord,
See, the building that we are is growing. It is a growing entity. It grows into a holy temple in the Lord.
It does not say that we are going to a temple. It says that we are growing INTO a temple. We are becoming the completed house of God. The building is still under construction. When Jesus said in Matthew 16, “Upon this rock, I’ll build my Church”, He was talking about the rock of revelation. The Church is not finished yet, because the revelation is not totally received yet. So, we are growing up.
Eph.2:22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
It is why Jesus His son is the Head of the Church(US) and Father is the head of Jesus. This is so important to understand.
There are three entrances: the gate, the door, and the veil. These are the three stages of spiritual development. The door closed on the law but it opened up the Church age. It lasted 2,000 years. At the end of the Church age, there is another compartment, the Holy of Holies, the millennial reign of Christ. We are right now, standing in the purposes of God at the veil, where the Glory of God filled the place.
At the end of the Church age, there will be a people filled with God’s glory.
Rev. 21 is a picture of the Church’s completion.
11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal.
See it is why I believe the Trinity is wrong, because it is a closed triad, God does not consist of 3 persons. There are too many questions that are left an answered.
I don't know why so many people based their faith on this Doctrine, just knowing how it came about, knowing it's history, it's obvious it was not based on love or the teaching of Christ so why would you gamble your life on this?
Why can't Jesus be enough as God's Christ? Why is being a Son not enough? Why is the voice of God from heaven saying”this is my son whom I am well pleased, listen to him” not enough?
Jesus is the Vine, so why make him the vine dresser? without the vine, I as a branch have no life.
I need to be attached to vine(Jesus) in order to live. I need The vine dresser(God) for He is the one who waters the Vine that gives me life. I NEED BOTH.God Bless you all while in search for the Truth.
seeking truth…..>you are right we are temples that God lives in and He cleanses us from with in. He convicts us of our wrong ways and helps us overcome them. Just like He did Jesus , thats why Jesus said He that overcomes even (AS) I have, meaning the way He did, and that was by the hand of God who was in Him. …….Peace to you…….gene
seeking the truth Thank you for your Testimony. Jesus is the Vine and we are the Branches. We are attached to Jesus. Without Him we are lost. That is why no Law saves us. We are under His Blood.
If we believe we have to do anything, we are putting our self under the Law and we have to keep the whole Law. By Faith in Christ Jesus it is a gift from God, not by works of the Law so no one can boast.
So many scriptures given and those like you understand. Thanks be to our Heavenly Father who send us His only begotten Son, so we can have eternal life. What a great God and Father we have. And thanks to our Savior and King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Amen, and Amen.Peace and Love Mrs.
WJ;
Thank you for your response. I have given you many scriptures. Many times in my posts I make statements without a scripture reference out of respect to others that I believe are reasonably acquainted with the scriptures. For instance, Christ was sent from above from the Father. That is a statement that is found in numerous scriptures.
If you would like to start a separate debate between you and me, I will agree, but isn't that really what we have now. Nonetheless, it may serve a purpose.
The difference between Kejonn and me with respect to responding to you is that Kejonn admittedly isn't sure what he believes yet with respect to the Godhead. He posted that just last week. So the tone of what he posts will naturally be much different than mine.
You seem to enjoy accusing others of not believing in the same Jesus as you, but if someone hints that you yourself might be in error, then you make accusations of pride and condescension towards you. For instance, when I state that the trinity denies the son-ship of Christ you find that very arrogant, but it's not actually. If you believe that Christ is eternal then you believe that he was never begotten by God because he always was. If I add, “It's so easy a cave man could understand it”, then that might be unnecessary but it's only arrogant if you want to argue it. To others, it's just having fun in the debate, even entertaining to those who read our posts. How can that be so wrong? From my perspective, you should lighten up, but that's entirely your decision. We're certainly not going to change each other's personality and should have no agenda to do so.
Finally, if you want to debate with me, the rule is, the scriptures only and a couple of translations we can agree on. I've never heard of some of the translations that you and Kejonn reference.
Take care
Steven
Seekingthetruth;
The scriptures say seek and ye shall find. It is apparent you have found the pearl of great price. You have an incredible understanding of the word and God's purpose towards us in Christ Jesus. In another one of your recent posts, you stated, Jesus does not appear in John 1 until verse 14. That is a mega-nugget of truth sister. Hold on to that and don't let it go, buy the field. It's very rare to hear all the truths you have enunciated in one post. The truth is so rich. Keep on seeking, you've found a rich field.
Take Care
Steven
Im4truth;
It's a wonderful thing to be freed from the law for those who once had to keep it. Having never been under the law it's hard to grasp the relief that Jews according to the flesh must realize.
There was a young man that came to Christ and asked what he had to do to inherit eternal life. Christ responded keep the commandments. He said I've been keeping them my entire life. Christ said if you want to be perfect sell all you have give it to the poor and come and follow me. The young man was sorrowful and went away. Christ said the lesson was it's hard to trust in riches and enter the kingdom of God but with God all things are possible. Did Jesus ask this young man to anything? Christ requires sacrifice in following him. Not of bulls and goats, but of ourselves. Paul said to present your bodies a living sacrifice so that you can be transformed and prove the will of God. There is definitely something to do in following Christ. We must perform daily in obedience to him to perform the will of God. But thank God we can through faith in the grace of Christ Jesus.
Take Care
Steven
WJ;
When Christ said the Father sent him and the works that he did he did by the authority of the Father, he was stating he was working in the name or the authority of the Father. That was manifesting the name of the Father-solely operating under the authority given to him from his Father.
Take Care
Steven
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