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Mr Steve
Interesting that you come out with a whole new list of questions rather than addressing the issues of my post.
If you have been truly reading my post and not just glossing over them then you would see I have already answered these questions several times over.
However, I will attempt to answer them again, though my time is limited. I have a few others to answer like t8s and not3s. To bad I am the only Trinitarian that is here on a regular basis.
Briefly I wil say that the truth of God and who and what he is, is found in the whole of scripture and not just in a few isolated scriptures. We must compare scripture with scripture and not disregard or leave any out or ignore them or twist them or distort them.
I am a literalist and believe the scriptures as they read at face value. I don’t believe the 100s of translators had agendas or purposely misinterpreted scriptures While some would say that they all had a Trinitarian bias, I don’t believe this for it seems so often the other way around.
First I read it and say to myself ok this is what it means. Then I compare it with the context to make sure it is saying what I think it is. Then if what I think it says does not agree with other scriptures then I dig deeper by looking at and comparing other translations, then I dig into the language Hebrew and Greek. (of course the Translators have done most of the work for us), to see if I can reconcile them.
There is only “One Truth”. I don’t believe there are contradictions in the Bible, but simply misunderstandings or grammatical errors. If most of the translations say it the same way, I tend to lean that way.
However, none of this is worth 2 cents if it is not done with the leading of the Spirit of Truth.
Jesus said the Spirit will take the things that he had spoken and bring them to our remembrance and lead us into all truth. Only the Spirit of revelation that Paul tells us of in Eph 1 can reveal the truth. Our natural carnal minds cannot perceive the things of God for they are foolishness to him.
Jesus opened the scriptures and expounded the things written therein of himself from Moses to the present. The Bible is a biography of God and Jesus takes claim to it. (they are they that testify of me) Jn 5:39
Jesus also said he spoke in parables so that those who do not believe would not percieve nor understand. Then Jesus would open their understanding and go deeper.
I believe there are still yet many things that we do not understand about the nature of who God is and that this revelation is progressive. Some would say that the trinity evolved. Well our understanding of an infinite God should be evolving.
Anyone who dosnt believe this is kidding himself to think that our finite minds can fully grasp the all powerfull infinite God of the creation. Or that 66 books in the Bible reveals all there is to know about him.
Man hasnt even understood scientifically what holds the “atoms” together. The universe should just explode. In a natural sence man knows nothing yet.
How do we think we fully understand the God (who is Spirit) of all the Universe and holds it all together?
We have a more sure word of prophesy though, and it would do us well to take heed to “ALL” of it.
Blessings
W H O I S G O D
Ask this question today in our 21st Century and the answer would be obvious. Most people would point upwards and say, “God is God”. 2000 years ago the answer would not have been so obvious. The Romans had many gods; a god of thunder, a god of lightening, a god of rain, a god of war, a god of love, ect, ect. There is something else people associate with the word god, supernatural powers. In ancient times people would chisel a statue out of rock, or carve a figure out of wood, or shape a figure out of metal, and then call it their god. They would then worship and sacrifice before this god. We may laugh at that today, but then, this was serious business, because people were sacrificed to these gods. But in those days there were also none deities’ gods. People with great political power were gods, so were strong military leaders, or wealthy businessmen. They were all considered mighty men, gods, minus the supernatural powers.
Ps. 82: 1 “ God (the almighty God) standeth in the congregation of the mighty, he judges among the gods.”
v. 6 “ I have said, ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High,”
Today we no longer think of them as gods, if we work for them, we would call them Boss. And really that is what the word god stands for, a strong one, a powerful one, a mighty one. Except when we speak of the God in heaven, he is the Almighty God, the all-powerful one.
Ps. 86:8 “Among the gods there is none like unto thee O Lord…”
And just as all the gods had names, so did the Almighty God.
Ps. 83:18 “ That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most High over all the earth.”
Is. 42:8 “ I am the LORD (Jehovah): that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images”.
Whose name is Jehovah, why can nobody else call himself by that name? Because the definition of the name is;
The everlasting one;
The self-existing one;
The immortal one;
What this means is simply this; God’s existence depends on nothing and no one else; He has always existed, and he can never die, he is immortal, death is impossible. The bible also speaks of only one God.
Ex. 8:10 “… know that there is none like unto the LORD (Jehovah) God.”
Deut. 4:35”…know that the LORD (Jehovah) he is God, there is none else beside him”.
Is. 40:13 “Who has directed the spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?”
v. 25 “ To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? Saith the Holy One “.
Mark 12:32“…well, Master, thou has said the truth, for there is one God and there is none other but he.”
1 Cor. 8:4 “… and that there is none other God but one”.
v. 5 “ For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many “.)
v. 6 “ But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”.
Why is it, that we have so many clear scriptures that teach us, there is only one God? And we insist on no scriptural prove, there are three? There is absolutely nothing in these scriptures that indicate there are three persons. Infect they emphasize that Jehovah, the Father, is God. God has no equal. Jesus is his son, the Holy Spirit, which doesn’t even have a name, is God’s mind, not a person. Paul says, whether we call someone else god, either in heaven or hear on earth, there is only one God, the Father, the Almighty God. Why do we call God, Father? The definition of the word is, life giver. All life begins with God, and that includes his son Jesus. Why is Jesus called the son? The son is he who receives life from the Father. That is why we read in;
John 3:16 “ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son…”
v. 17 “ For God sent not his son into the world…”
God gave his son, God sent his son. In other words, Jesus did not become the Fathers son when he was born of Mary; he was his son long before then. After all, did he not create everything?
Col. 1:16 “ For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth…”
If Jesus had become a son when he was born of Mary; should he not be the son of the Holy Spirit?
Mat. 1:18 “Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary
was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of
the Holy Ghost.”
You must have wondered about that yourself. Speaking of the Holy Spirit; is he God? Is he a person? Do we know his name? Does he have a name? I don’t mean “helper” or “comforter”; those are not names, that is what the Holy Spirit does. Should it not surprise us that everything in the Universe has a name?
Ps. 147:4 “ He telleth the number of the stars, he calleth them all by their names”.
Except the one (person?), whom we credit with being most influential in our Christian life, the Holy Spirit? Why would we even think that our God, who is all wise and all-powerful, would need another person to do all his work? When God wants something done, all he has to do speak the word and it is done;
Ps. 33:9 “For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.”
Let me make another point.
Rev. 3:1 “And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; these things says he that has the seven Spirits of God…”
Why haven’t we heart about God’s seven Spirits? Are they all persons? Seven is God’s number of perfection. The seven Spirits of God only emphasize his perfect Holy Spirit. Paul says there is a spirit in man;
1 Cor. 2:11 “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which
is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”
This spirit in us, should we ask who is he? Or should we ask what is it? This spirit is our mind; it is what sets us apart from the animals. This mind enables us to learn how to read and write, to calculate, to think, to plan and build, with it we make choices, all the things God does. That is the image of God he created us in, but it is not another person. We influence other people by example and by what we teach them. God influences us with his Holy Mind, his Holy Spirit. Paul writes to the Philippians;
Phil. 2:5 “ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.’
This mind that was in Jesus was the mind of God, Gods spirit, his Holy Spirit.
Why would Paul say?
Eph. 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
Eph. 4:6 “ One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all”.
Col. 1:3 “We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
And what else can this next scripture mean except what it says;
1 Cor. 15:28 “And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also
himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”
Anyone that dares to tamper and distort these scriptures should keep in mind what Paul says in,
Gal. 1:9 “As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”
Those who call themselves teachers, should take this scripture very serious.
Peace and Love Mrs.WJ;
Thank you for acknowledging my post. I'll attempt to sort out all of your other posts to read your answers to others.
Take Care
Steven
Kejonn;
Can you give me access to all the threads that all the other members have access to, too.
Thank you
Steven
Im4Truth
I am assuming your post is in response to the earlier post I made to you.
It seems that those I respond to dont address the issues that I bring up or the scriptures that I point out and expound on, but go on to their understanding of other scripures.
Kejonn s one that will respond to my statements and scriptural post like I do to his. If we just change the subject and go to something else then to me we are not addressing the points already brought up.
I am limited for time but because your response is before t8 and not3 I will address a couple points.
I agree with most of your post however there is still unanswered questions based on certain scriptures that dont agree with your premise in my opinion.
In my earlier post I discussed that we should take “ALL” the scriptures in consideration before we form our doctrines.
First you say…
Quote
Why is it, that we have so many clear scriptures that teach us, there is only one God? And we insist on no scriptural prove, there are three? There is absolutely nothing in these scriptures that indicate there are three personsMatt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:This scripture is unambiguous. Its found in all of the major translations and also in thousands of the most ancient copies of the scriptures.
There have been many who have tried to say that this scripture was added, but there is absolutely no proof of that.
Jesus speaks of “Three”, all having the definite article with a singular name. He dosnt say in the “names of”, he says in the “name of”.
You mentioned the Holy Spirit dosnt have a name. but according to Jesus words the Holy Spirit has a name.
What is it? Well what is the Fathers name? Do you know of a scripture where Jesus said the Fathers name? You will say it is Jehovah. That is supposed to be the english interpretation of the tetragamation “YHWH”, But truthfully we dont know how the Name of the Father is pronounced. So in reality if we dont know how it was spelled or pronounced then we really dont know what his name is.
We do know he is God 'Theos' and Father 'pater'. We have many titles for God. But we have no scripture where his name is spoken.
Why would the Father allow this to happen concerning Himself and the Holy Spirit?
I believe it is because the Father wanted us to know “One Name” and that is Jesus by and for whom all things were created!
Jesus said in verse 18 of Matt 28…
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
So because of this go into all the world baptising in the “name Of”…
The Apostles must have understood that Jesus was the Name that he had given them for throughout the Acts they baptised in the name of “Jesus”. Why not the Fathers name? In fact every healing every miracle that we see In the New Testament by the Apostles was “In Jesus Name”!
Jn 12:28
Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.Jn 17:6
I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.Ln 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.Jn 17:26
And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare [it]: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.Why dont we know what the Fathers name is by Jesus words?
We do know that the Apostles only preached in “One Name”, and that is the name that was given him at birth by the Angel,
Jesus, Yeshua, which also means: “Yahwey” is salvation!
Why is there not one mention of the Fathers name in the epistles or the gospels? Paul refered to the Father as God “theos” but without a name.
So in my opinion the argument that the Holy Spirit has no name is a red herrin.
The Holy Spirits primary ministry was to glorify the Father and the Son and not to speak of himself!
Is the Spirit a person? Well what are the attributes of a person?
Lets look at Jesus words…
Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Some would interpret it…
Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when “it”, the Spirit of truth, is come, “it” will guide you into all truth: for “it” shall not speak of “itself”; but whatsoever “it” shall hear, that shall “it” speak: and “ii” will shew you things to come.
Sounds like somethig from another world! Twighlight Zone!
So if the Spirit is not a person then why did the translators translate Jn 16:13 and others with the personal pronouns?
Lets look at the greek words surrounding the pronouns and see if we can understand why.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
”Come”… erchomai, which means…
1) to come
a) of persons
1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
2) to appear, make one's appearance, come before the publicThis word is used AV — come 616, go 13, misc 13, vr come 1
It is used almost invariably in association with a person in the NT.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Guide”… hodēgeō, which means… 1) to be a guide, lead on one's way, to guide
2) to be a guide or a teacher
a) to give guidance toThis word is used AV — lead 3, guide 2
100 percent used in association with a person.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Speak”… laleo, which means…
1) to utter a voice or emit a sound
2) to speak
a) to use the tongue or the faculty of speech
b) to utter articulate sounds
3) to talk
4) to utter, tell
5) to use words in order to declare one's mind and disclose one's thoughts
a) to speakAV — speak 244, say 15, tell 12, talk 11, preach 6, utter 4, misc 3, vr speak 1
Almost invariably it involves a person with a tongue.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Hear”… akouō, which means…
1) to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
2) to hear
b) to attend to, consider what is or has been said
c) to understand, perceive the sense of what is said
3) to hear something
a) to perceive by the ear what is announced in one's presence
b) to get by hearing learn
c) a thing comes to one's ears, to find out, learn
d) to give ear to a teaching or a teacher
e) to comprehend, to understandAV — hear 418, hearken 6, give audience 3, hearer 2, misc 8
Again, almost invariably associated with a person who has ears.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Shew” anaggello,
1) to announce, make known
2) to report, bring back tidings, rehearseAV — tell 6, show 6, declare 3, rehearse 1, speak 1, report 1
100% associated with a person who has a tongue.
While we are at it lets look at the 14th verse.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.
The Spirit of truth will…
“Glorify” doxazo,
1) to think, suppose, be of opinion
2) to praise, extol, magnify, celebrate
3) to honour, do hon
our to, hold in honour
4) to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendour
a) to impart glory to something, render it excellent
b) to make renowned, render illustrious
1) to cause the dignity and worth of some person or thing to become manifest and acknowledgedAV — glorify 54, honour 3, have glory 2, magnify 1, make glorious 1, full of glory 1
100% associated with a person.
The Spirit of truth will…
“Receive” lambano,1) to take
a) to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it
1) to take up a thing to be carried
2) to take upon one's self
b) to take in order to carry away
1) without the notion of violence, i,e to remove, take away
c) to take what is one's own, to take to one's self, to make one's own
1) to claim, procure, for one's self
a) to associate with one's self as companion, attendant
2) of that which when taken is not let go, to seize, to lay hold of, apprehend
3) to take by craft (our catch, used of hunters, fisherman, etc.), to circumvent one by fraud
4) to take to one's self, lay hold upon, take possession of, i.e. to appropriate to one's self
5) catch at, reach after, strive to obtain
6) to take a thing due, to collect, gather (tribute)
d) to take
1) to admit, receive
2) to receive what is offered
3) not to refuse or reject
4) to receive a person, give him access to one's self,
a) to regard any one's power, rank, external circumstances, and on that account to do some injustice or neglect something
e) to take, to choose, select
f) to take beginning, to prove anything, to make a trial of, to experience
2) to receive (what is given), to gain, get, obtain, to get backAV — receive 133, take 106, have 3, catch 3, not tr 1, misc 17
Almost invariably associated with a person.
This is only two verses spoken by Jesus and not to mention the Apostles describing the Holy Spirit with personal attributes using personal pronouns.
Should we ignore them?
Is the Holy Spirit a person? If not then what sort of creature is he?
I will address a couple of your other points later!
Blessings
WJ;
Christ said when the Holy Spirit is come “he” will not speak of himself. When he said he would not speak of himself he identified the Holy Spirit as a distinct person. Of course, the scriptures that say to go into all the world in the name of the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit also indicate three persons. Jesus said that he declared the Father's name when he said he came in the name of the Father I believe he was saying he came in the authority of the Father, not his own authority because that's what is written in the scriptures. For instance, when he said the Father sent him, he was declaring his Father's name because he said he was sent in the name of the Father, and acted under the authority of the Father. Thank you for your response and take care.
Steven
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Sep. 14 2007,08:25) Kejonn; Can you give me access to all the threads that all the other members have access to, too.
Thank you
Steven
You should already have that access.
=Quote (IM4Truth @ Sep. 14 2007,06:23) W H O I S G O D Ask this question today in our 21st Century and the answer would be obvious. Most people would point upwards and say, “God is God”. 2000 years ago the answer would not have been so obvious. The Romans had many gods; a god of thunder, a god of lightening, a god of rain, a god of war, a god of love, ect, ect. There is something else people associate with the word god, supernatural powers. In ancient times people would chisel a statue out of rock, or carve a figure out of wood, or shape a figure out of metal, and then call it their god. They would then worship and sacrifice before this god. We may laugh at that today, but then, this was serious business, because people were sacrificed to these gods. But in those days there were also none deities’ gods. People with great political power were gods, so were strong military leaders, or wealthy businessmen. They were all considered mighty men, gods, minus the supernatural powers.
Ps. 82: 1 “ God (the almighty God) standeth in the congregation of the mighty, he judges among the gods.”
v. 6 “ I have said, ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High,”
Today we no longer think of them as gods, if we work for them, we would call them Boss. And really that is what the word god stands for, a strong one, a powerful one, a mighty one. Except when we speak of the God in heaven, he is the Almighty God, the all-powerful one.
Ps. 86:8 “Among the gods there is none like unto thee O Lord…”
And just as all the gods had names, so did the Almighty God.
Ps. 83:18 “ That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most High over all the earth.”
Is. 42:8 “ I am the LORD (Jehovah): that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images”.
Whose name is Jehovah, why can nobody else call himself by that name? Because the definition of the name is;
The everlasting one;
The self-existing one;
The immortal one;
What this means is simply this; God’s existence depends on nothing and no one else; He has always existed, and he can never die, he is immortal, death is impossible. The bible also speaks of only one God.
Ex. 8:10 “… know that there is none like unto the LORD (Jehovah) God.”
Deut. 4:35”…know that the LORD (Jehovah) he is God, there is none else beside him”.
Is. 40:13 “Who has directed the spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?”
v. 25 “ To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? Saith the Holy One “.
Mark 12:32“…well, Master, thou has said the truth, for there is one God and there is none other but he.”
1 Cor. 8:4 “… and that there is none other God but one”.
v. 5 “ For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many “.)
v. 6 “ But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”.
Why is it, that we have so many clear scriptures that teach us, there is only one God? And we insist on no scriptural prove, there are three? There is absolutely nothing in these scriptures that indicate there are three persons. Infect they emphasize that Jehovah, the Father, is God. God has no equal. Jesus is his son, the Holy Spirit, which doesn’t even have a name, is God’s mind, not a person. Paul says, whether we call someone else god, either in heaven or hear on earth, there is only one God, the Father, the Almighty God. Why do we call God, Father? The definition of the word is, life giver. All life begins with God, and that includes his son Jesus. Why is Jesus called the son? The son is he who receives life from the Father. That is why we read in;
John 3:16 “ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son…”
v. 17 “ For God sent not his son into the world…”
God gave his son, God sent his son. In other words, Jesus did not become the Fathers son when he was born of Mary; he was his son long before then. After all, did he not create everything?
Col. 1:16 “ For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth…”
If Jesus had become a son when he was born of Mary; should he not be the son of the Holy Spirit?
Mat. 1:18 “Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary
was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of
the Holy Ghost.”
You must have wondered about that yourself. Speaking of the Holy Spirit; is he God? Is he a person? Do we know his name? Does he have a name? I don’t mean “helper” or “comforter”; those are not names, that is what the Holy Spirit does. Should it not surprise us that everything in the Universe has a name?
Ps. 147:4 “ He telleth the number of the stars, he calleth them all by their names”.
Except the one (person?), whom we credit with being most influential in our Christian life, the Holy Spirit? Why would we even think that our God, who is all wise and all-powerful, would need another person to do all his work? When God wants something done, all he has to do speak the word and it is done;
Ps. 33:9 “For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.”
Let me make another point.
Rev. 3:1 “And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; these things says he that has the seven Spirits of God…”
Why haven’t we heart about God’s seven Spirits? Are they all persons? Seven is God’s number of perfection. The seven Spirits of God only emphasize his perfect Holy Spirit. Paul says there is a spirit in man;
1 Cor. 2:11 “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which
is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”
This spirit in us, should we ask who is he? Or should we ask what is it? This spirit is our mind; it is what sets us apart from the animals. This mind enables us to learn how to read and write, to calculate, to think, to plan and build, with it we make choices, all the things God does. That is the image of God he created us in, but it is not another person. We influence other people by example and by what we teach them. God influences us with his Holy Mind, his Holy Spirit. Paul writes to the Philippians;
Phil. 2:5 “ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.’
This mind that was in Jesus was the mind of God, Gods spirit, his Holy Spirit.
Why would Paul say?
Eph. 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
Eph. 4:6 “ One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all”.
Col. 1:3 “We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
And what else can this next scripture mean except what it says;
1 Cor. 15:28 “And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also
himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”
Anyone that dares to tamper and distort these scriptures should keep in mind what Paul says in,
Gal. 1:9 “As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”
Those who call themselves teachers, should take this scripture very serious.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Im4truth….> why can't these trinitarians simply understand that. And you didn't even mention all the other scriptures that show there is onl
y (ONE) God. What is blocking that simple understanding. It has to be some type of blindness placed there by God. It does say to whom soever has more shall be given, and to those who don't have even what they have will be taken from them………..Good post IM4TRUTH…..GENE.I heard Pastor Doug (Sun-day church)say this past spring that he could not explain the trinity, although he believes in a trinity and teaches his flock to believe it. He has been a Pastor for over 20 years!
Plain stupidity under the guise of faith. Blind leading the blind.
The Spirit is not a person. The Spirit is like the wind and comes from the Father and goes to whom ever and where ever the Father wills it. The Spirit like the One from whom sends it, can be everywhere all the time.
Y'shua Messiah is the fulfillment of the Spirit of the Father. Y'shua only does the will of His Father. Y'shua is NOT His Father, but they are One.
The Word of YHWH and yes this is His Name, (and if you want to know for sure how to pronounce it, study Hebrew and let the Spirit tell you how) well the Word is from the Father also, the Word IS the Spirit of truth and so is Messiah. The Word was from the beginning and is fulfilled in Messiah.
You will NEVER be able to explain the trinity, because just like Christmas, it is wicked. When I say wicked I mean truth twisted with lies.
When you see the Father (YHWH our ELohim) is One, the Son Y'shua Messiah is One and the Spirit is what makes them One then you will see much.
You will never see all however untill you first become obedient through faith and not works. Once you become obedient (10 commands, including the 7th day Sabbath), then you will hear the Spirit of truth and not untill.
If you are not obeying the 10 commandments, and “think” you are hearing the truth, you are listening to the spirit of deception.
Hope none of you are mad at me. YHWH is the One who said all things I just wrote.
Do a search of the Scriptures for the Words “hear” and “see”, and you will have to believe it when you read for yourselves.
YHWH=Spirit=Two Edged Sword=Truth=Word=Messiah=Elohim
I do love you all,
LaurelQuote (942767 @ Sep. 13 2007,09:42) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 13 2007,04:07) Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 12 2007,16:44) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 11 2007,18:50) Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 11 2007,17:39) First of all I will be greatly suprised to learn that “we” can do greater things than Y'shua Messiah, I would like you to post Scripture to back that claim up. I do not believe that for a second. And, NO I do not believe Y'shua IS YHWH. I believe Y'shua was given the whole of YHWH's Spirit, so that He could be here in Elohim's place. The two are one in His Spirit.
John 14:12-14
John 14-12 tells me that He is YHWH, and He will do greater works than these, because Y'shua does His Father's works, so if you think Y'shua did some amazing things, they come from His Father, and there is more to come.Hope you are helped by this truth.
Laurel
Hi Sister,Jesus is the one who is talking in the John 14:12 passage. Jesus is God's Son. He tells us that if we believe in him we will do greater things than he [because he goes to his Father]. Of course we know that God works through everyone and it is by the power of God that men are able to perform miracles and so on.
But it is Jesus who tells us that if we have faith, we can do what he did – and more!
John 14:12
“…anyone who has faith….will do what I have done…..he will do even greater things than these…….”
Clearly it is the Father who works in all, and who would work in us to this very day if we would have faith. Are we greater than Jesus because of this? Certainly not! However, I believe the main thrust of the message Jesus was teaching was that because he goes to the Father – the Spirit would come and work through all in an amazing way and a massive way (no longer man to man, but potentially worldwide as we are seeing now). In this way, our work in passing the gospel along is greater than Jesus' because he was only able to go on foot from town to town, for instance.
I hope I have made sense here – I can barely hear my own thoughts over the hammering in the next room (home remodel).
Hi Not3in1 and Laurel:The following quote is from JFB Commentary relative to “greater works then these”:
Quote His miracles the apostles wrought, though wholly in His name and by His power, and the “greater” works–not in degree but in kind–were the conversion of thousands in a day, by His Spirit accompanying them. God Bless
Thank you 94Bishop'
That makes more sence than what she said. Although I still see a capital letter He and not he meaning we.
I think that's one of Satan's biggest tricks is to try to get us to think that we can be equal or greater than Elohim, because that is what Satan wants for himself. That is how Satan seduced Eve and I am stupid if I can't see from her mistake, that was a big no no!!!Man can never be equal or greater than our Mighty El.
Here is the deception:
NO LAW=NO DEATH=IMMORTALITY=ELOHIMHere is what the master of deception said:Gen.3:4-5
“You will not surely die” “In the day you eat of it, you will be like Elohim, knowing what is righteous and what is evil.”
Love,
LaurelLaurel,
Thank you for your meaty post. It has given me something to chew on, for sure.Love to you, too!
Mandy1 Cor. 2:11 “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which
is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”
This spirit in us, should we ask who is he? Or should we ask what is it? This spirit is our mind; it is what sets us apart from the animals.I copied this from Not3's post.
I just want to cry!!! The Spirit IS NOT our mind, for the mind of the flesh is corrupt. The Spirit that Paul was speaking of is the Spirit that comes to us from the Father through the Son. There is only One Spirit. It comes from the Father. Many ways to describe it, many fascets, like a brilliant cut diamond, like a two edged sword, like truth, like wind…..Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 14 2007,17:48) Sorry Not3 that was Iam4's post I qouted.
Laurel
Hi Laurel,
No problem. It took me a minute to figure out what you meant? Ha!Laurel,
You know it's so much easier to manage posts when you have editing rights. All you have to do is post to t8 and ask him for this privilege.
Laurel Read the scripture that you are referring to
Corinth. 2:11 ” For what Man knoweth the things of man save the spirit of man, which is in Him?……
What is the image that God created us in ? It is the spirit……tell me what do you think what image God created us in? The flesh?
You want to cry, let me tell you Lady, you have been done nothing but have been rude to me and you cant even read? You are a Christian, let me tell you as far as I am concerned a Christian does not act like that, and I am tired of people like you.
Mrs.Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 14 2007,16:01) I heard Pastor Doug (Sun-day church)say this past spring that he could not explain the trinity, although he believes in a trinity and teaches his flock to believe it. He has been a Pastor for over 20 years! Plain stupidity under the guise of faith. Blind leading the blind.
The Spirit is not a person. The Spirit is like the wind and comes from the Father and goes to whom ever and where ever the Father wills it. The Spirit like the One from whom sends it, can be everywhere all the time.
Y'shua Messiah is the fulfillment of the Spirit of the Father. Y'shua only does the will of His Father. Y'shua is NOT His Father, but they are One.
The Word of YHWH and yes this is His Name, (and if you want to know for sure how to pronounce it, study Hebrew and let the Spirit tell you how) well the Word is from the Father also, the Word IS the Spirit of truth and so is Messiah. The Word was from the beginning and is fulfilled in Messiah.
You will NEVER be able to explain the trinity, because just like Christmas, it is wicked. When I say wicked I mean truth twisted with lies.
When you see the Father (YHWH our ELohim) is One, the Son Y'shua Messiah is One and the Spirit is what makes them One then you will see much.
You will never see all however untill you first become obedient through faith and not works. Once you become obedient (10 commands, including the 7th day Sabbath), then you will hear the Spirit of truth and not untill.
If you are not obeying the 10 commandments, and “think” you are hearing the truth, you are listening to the spirit of deception.
Hope none of you are mad at me. YHWH is the One who said all things I just wrote.
Do a search of the Scriptures for the Words “hear” and “see”, and you will have to believe it when you read for yourselves.
YHWH=Spirit=Two Edged Sword=Truth=Word=Messiah=Elohim
I do love you all,
Laurel
Laurel,Is this Pastor Doug the same Pastor Doug as the SDA?
This group that produced those videos were former SDA. They left because the SDA decided to be “Protestant” and believe and teach the Trinity. So you see I was right in saying that the SDA do not have the Spirit.
Just because you teach the Sabbath that is only half. We are to worship in Spirit and truth.
This organization The World's Last Chance believe in keeping the Sabbath “spiritually” But they as the SDA in the past believe that Jesus was Michael the Archangel. I don't know some how that doesn't seem important what matters is that the Son of God paid for our sins, Amen?
God bless,
KenSorry Iam4, I do not have a clue as to what you just posted, so I won't comment, but I will expound on why I want to cry, you said the spirit is our mind and that it is different than animals. Don't you know Elohim loves all creatures, great and small? Don't you know that a sparrow does not fall, that Elohim has not counted? Don't you know that even the animals hear Him? They know when their end is and from where they recieve their food?
The verse you posted tells us that His Spirit that is in us is all we know, that we need to know pertaining to us. We are not privy to all of His wisdom which His Spirit holds.
Ken,
Pastor Doug is Presbytarian, and always was. I also said we need to keep all of the commandments through faith, only then will you “hear” the Spirit of truth.
LaurelTo all;
In the gospel we see the works of Christ. Also, vividly apparent are the works of the devil. Christ said his mission was to destroy the works of the devil. Jesus said the devil was a liar and the father of liars and that when he speaketh a lie he speaketh of his own. The devil knows that if he can pervert the truth that he can still cause people to believe lies even though they are seeking the truth. Jesus said that eternal life could be had by believing that he was the Son of God. After months of reading posts from trinitarians and like doctrines it has become apparent to me that many who believe that many who claim salvation through Christ do not believe the essential truth for salvation-that Christ is the Son of God. The posts are abundant from those who believe that Jesus is God Almighty, Jehovah, etc. The devil actually takes pleasure in deception, that's his whole goal, to deceive. In stating that Christ is Jehovah, they are also stating that Christ is the Father, and therefore, not the Son of God.
Steven
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