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Gene,
Hence my tagline
John 4:23 – “But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.”
Don't know about you, but I wanna be a true worshiper!
This was the religion conveyed in the message of Jesus; submission to the will of the one true God by obedience to His commandments. Jesus stressed to his followers that his mission did not cancel the laws received by Prophet's of the Old Testament like Moses. As the prophets who came after Moses maintained the law, so did Jesus.
In Matthew 5:17-18, Jesus stated: “17 Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the [way of] the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
In Luke 3:8, the Devil asks Jesus to worship him, promising him the authority and glory of all of the kingdoms of this world, “And Jesus answered him, ‘It is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.’ ” Thus, the essence of the message of Jesus was that only God deserves to be worshipped and that the worship of anyone or anything besides God or along with God is false. Jesus not only called people to this message but he also practically demonstrated it for them by bowing down in prayer and worshipping God himself. In Mark 14:32, it states: “And they went to a place which was called Gethsemane; and he [Jesus] said to his disciples, ‘Sit here, while I pray.’ ” And in Luke 5:16, “But he withdrew to the wilderness and prayed.”
The vast majority of Christians today pray to Jesus, claiming that he is God. The Philosophers among them claim that they are not worshipping Jesus the man, but God- God the son(but doesn't this make 2 Gods- God the father and God the Son?). This is also the rationale of pagans who bow down in worship to idols. When a pagan philosopher is asked why he worships an idol which was made by human hands, he replies that he is not really worshipping the idol. Furthermore, he may claim that the idol is only a focal point for the presence of God, and thereby claim to be worshipping God who is manifest in the idol.
Jesus’ message, which urged mankind to worship one God alone, became distorted after his return to the Father.Then, beginning with Paul's gospel of the Good News, trinitarian philosophers turned that pure and simple message into a complicated trinitarian philosophy which justified the worship of Jesus as God, 3 persons but still One God..God The Father, God The Son and God the Holy Spirit..but still one God..and then the worship of Jesus’ mother, Mary,(WELL THEN DOES THIS MEAN SHE IS THE MOTHER OF YAWEH) the angels and the saints. Catholics have a long list of saints to whom they turn in times of need. If something is lost, Saint Anthony of Thebes is prayed to in order to help find it. St. Jude Thaddaeus is the patron saint of the impossible and is prayed to for intercession in incurable illnesses, unlikely marriages or the like. The patron saint of travelers was Saint Christopher, to whom travelers used to pray for protection up until 1969, when he was officially struck off the list of saints by papal decree, after it was confirmed that he was fictitious. Although he was officially crossed off the list of saints, there are many Catholics around the world today who are still praying to St. Christopher.
Worshipping ‘saints’ contradicts and corrupts the worship of One God; and it is in vain, because neither the living nor the dead can answer the prayers of mankind. The worship of God should not be shared with His creation in any way, shape or form.
Kejonn, seekingnthe truth…….AMEN.. Don't loose what you have ….may the Lord bless and Keep you, make His Face to shine on you, and be gracious to you, lift up His countenance on you and give you peace.
seeking the truth…..> it plainly say's in Rev 12:17 the ones that will be there, Keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus. Jesus testomony was about the Father the One and Only God.
Peace to you seeking the truth you have found it….gene
God exalted Christ to be worshipped. There six cases I know of in Matthew where Christ was worshipped including by his own disciples. The work of God is to glorify Christ. He has given him a name above every name that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow and tongue confess that Christ is Lord to the Glory of the Father.
Mr. Steve …..> if you look up the scripture you have shown in a Greek interlinear translation and look at the word (Should) you will find it should be rendered (May) or Might and emplies only to the Glory to God. So this scripture foces the Glory to God not Jesus, as you are implying.
Rev 7:10-11> and crying out with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God who sits on the throne and to the Lamb” verse 11, “and all the angles stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and (WORSHIPED GOD).Saying Amen, Blessings and glory and wisdom, and thanksgiving and honor and might, be to our God forever and ever Amen!.
the lamb, who is Jesus is not mentioned as worshiped even though he was there.
why, if He is to be worshiped is he not here worshiped.
Mr. steve i maintain all worship belongs to the Father. I was never commamded by Jesus or God the Father to worship Jesus, so i will worship God only, but i will honor those who God honors, but not worship them.
just the way i see it, Mr. Steve……..geneQuote (kejonn @ Aug. 10 2007,06:54) Steve,
Hey, I just thought of something! Trinitarians say that people worshiped Yeshua, and yes they did. They then use this to show he is God because of this verse:Exd 34:14 –for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God–
Well, the problem here is that He never said not to worship His Son…He just said not to worship any other god! So this is actually a verse that refutes the Trinity!
My friend, this does not refute the trinity at all. You see, God made us in His image. We are a triune being, being body, soul and spirit. God, who made us in His image is also triune, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.If this was not the case, we would not be made in His image.
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth.
Joh 17:5 And now Father, glorify Me with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
What was the former glory of Jesus?
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.Jesus was God. He was born as Saviour/Lord, and has ben returned to His former glory.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God!
There are 827 pages on this topic, which is pretty incredible. I have noticed that often it is the people who deny the personage of the Holy Spirit also lack the gifts, which is a real shame.
If any are interested I have tried to explain the trinity here http://www.all4god.net/trinity.htm
Blessings
Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 11 2007,09:59) There are 827 pages on this topic, which is pretty incredible. I have noticed that often it is the people who deny the personage of the Holy Spirit also lack the gifts, which is a real shame. If any are interested I have tried to explain the trinity here http://www.all4god.net/trinity.htm
Blessings
You must have gotten bored uh OX!
OX? you call me OX? Is that s'posed to be some sort of insult Ken? Truth is, how can one EVER be bored when one knows God? More like a sadistic form of idle curiosity Ken, lol.
Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 11 2007,10:33) OX? you call me OX? Is that s'posed to be some sort of insult Ken? Truth is, how can one EVER be bored when one knows God? More like a sadistic form of idle curiosity Ken, lol.
Oh come on lighten up I'm kidding
I can't say I care for your judgmentel statement though. But that's just how you are if you don't believe in the Harlots doctrine then you are not saved, you don't have any gifts, you don't know God ETC. But Oxy if you don't declare that the author of your doctrine is the true church then you are going to burn in eternal hell fire
What are you going to do? OR are you Catholic? You are, you just don't know it! OH Welcome back! It's getting better here two leave one comes back
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,11:00) Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 11 2007,10:33) OX? you call me OX? Is that s'posed to be some sort of insult Ken? Truth is, how can one EVER be bored when one knows God? More like a sadistic form of idle curiosity Ken, lol.
Oh come on lighten up I'm kidding I can't say I care for your judgmentel statement though. But that's just how you are if you don't believe in the Harlots doctrine then you are not saved, you don't have any gifts, you don't know God ETC. But Oxy if you don't declare that the author of your doctrine is the true church then you are going to burn in eternal hell fire
What are you going to do? OR are you Catholic? You are, you just don't know it! OH Welcome back! It's getting better here two leave one comes back
And you accuse ME of judgement??? lol You are too funny.I'm not really “back” as such. Just checking out the heresies.
Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 11 2007,11:33) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,11:00) Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 11 2007,10:33) OX? you call me OX? Is that s'posed to be some sort of insult Ken? Truth is, how can one EVER be bored when one knows God? More like a sadistic form of idle curiosity Ken, lol.
Oh come on lighten up I'm kidding I can't say I care for your judgmentel statement though. But that's just how you are if you don't believe in the Harlots doctrine then you are not saved, you don't have any gifts, you don't know God ETC. But Oxy if you don't declare that the author of your doctrine is the true church then you are going to burn in eternal hell fire
What are you going to do? OR are you Catholic? You are, you just don't know it! OH Welcome back! It's getting better here two leave one comes back
And you accuse ME of judgement??? lol You are too funny.I'm not really “back” as such. Just checking out the heresies.
Ok Bro! We who are the Lord's will all die, yet will we live. The Son of God did die, and was then raised up to His former glory with the Father as it was in the beginning, as He asked.
Joh 17:5 And now Father, glorify Me with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
Before the world was, Jesus (then known as the Word of God), was part of the “Us” that man man in their own image.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 10 2007,16:48) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 10 2007,06:54) Steve,
Hey, I just thought of something! Trinitarians say that people worshiped Yeshua, and yes they did. They then use this to show he is God because of this verse:Exd 34:14 –for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God–
Well, the problem here is that He never said not to worship His Son…He just said not to worship any other god! So this is actually a verse that refutes the Trinity!
My friend, this does not refute the trinity at all. You see, God made us in His image. We are a triune being, being body, soul and spirit. God, who made us in His image is also triune, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.If this was not the case, we would not be made in His image.
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth.
That's nice, and inspiring. Too bad its not scriptural or you'd really be on to something!I read some of your site where you say the the Father is like our soul. But you failed to back it up scripturally and that is where you will lose Bereans.
Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 10 2007,16:55) Joh 17:5 And now Father, glorify Me with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was. What was the former glory of Jesus?
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.Jesus was God. He was born as Saviour/Lord, and has ben returned to His former glory.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God!
But Yeshua saidJhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.' “
Jhn 4:23 “But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Jhn 4:24 “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
How many Gods do you have? I'm going to worship the one that Yeshua told me to worship, God the Father.
Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 10 2007,16:59) There are 827 pages on this topic, which is pretty incredible. I have noticed that often it is the people who deny the personage of the Holy Spirit also lack the gifts, which is a real shame. If any are interested I have tried to explain the trinity here http://www.all4god.net/trinity.htm
Blessings
Are you speaking of personal experience?Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 10 2007,18:33) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 11 2007,11:00) Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 11 2007,10:33) OX? you call me OX? Is that s'posed to be some sort of insult Ken? Truth is, how can one EVER be bored when one knows God? More like a sadistic form of idle curiosity Ken, lol.
Oh come on lighten up I'm kidding I can't say I care for your judgmentel statement though. But that's just how you are if you don't believe in the Harlots doctrine then you are not saved, you don't have any gifts, you don't know God ETC. But Oxy if you don't declare that the author of your doctrine is the true church then you are going to burn in eternal hell fire
What are you going to do? OR are you Catholic? You are, you just don't know it! OH Welcome back! It's getting better here two leave one comes back
And you accuse ME of judgement??? lol You are too funny.I'm not really “back” as such. Just checking out the heresies.
Definition of heresy – anything that doesn't agree with my theology.
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