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Dear Not3in1;
It's amazing how much truth is found in the statements of John the Baptist. He was quoted by Christ and the Apostles. John the Baptist says twice in the first chapter of John that He (Christ) is preferred before me because he (Christ) was before me. John says Christ was before him, meaning that Jesus Christ existed before him as a person. He did not say God was before him because that would be pointless since all believed that God is eternal so that is given. When John later saw Christ he called him the Lamb of God. Indeed, the Lamb of God was the Son of God. He did not say God which is a Lamb, or God in the flesh, but the Lamb of God. He it was that John says twice existed before him.
If he only existed in seed as the word of God he could not have made such a statement. All of us in Christ have also been begotten by God through Christ. The seed of the word of God has caused us to be born again, but we certainly did not exist with God before creation as persons as John states Christ did. The Lamb of God is the Son of God.Mr.Steve…….Seperate Jesus from the word Christos and you have your answer, Jesus is not the annointing, the anointing was in Jesus, that anointing was God and theat anointing was with the Father in the beginning and Know the Father and Jesus was Yokes with it so therefore in that sense he could say what he said . We have to learn to seperate the anointing which is God.s Spirit from Jesus the same is true with us who have the Spirit of God in us. but we cant claim the spirit of God as Us it is a seperate being indwelling us and thats the same with Jesus ….gene
not3in1 I have always given
Col. 1:15 & 16 Col. 1:18 Rev. 3:14 Gen. 1:26
as prove for the preexisting of Jesus. He was the first to receive Life and the first to be resurrected from the dead. So He can have perineum in all.Gene;
I believe you are saying that the spirit of God is in us but we are not the spirit. Where I get lost is “Know the Father and Jesus was Yokes” in your statement. I'm not sure what exactly you are saying here.
Steven
not 3in1 I was not finished sorry must have pressed the button to post I was going to say also that
I never looked at the scriptures Steve gave.
I get so excited when God shows me more truths.
Peace Mrs.Mr Steve… remember the Father said he gives his glory to no man, and Jesus was a Man. remember when Jesus said glorify you name and a voice came out from Heaven and said, “I both have and Will. WE have to understand it was God in Jesus Doing the work, and God gets the Glory for it. And that anointing was in the beginning. Jesus said if I glorify myself my Glory is nothing.
Mr.Steve…..> remember when Jesus said to take my Yoke upon you, (a yoke is somthing that ties two together like oxen or other things,) and in this case Jesus was telling us to Yoke with God as He is, and you will become a team with God as he was and God will lighten your burden like Jesus said his was. In other word Jesus had the Father in Him and the Fathers words were in the beginning and the words where with the Father.
Gene;
It goes back to the truth that the Father has given all to the Son. He has given his Glory. Christ will come in his glory and in the glory of the Father. All glory is ultimately attributed to the Father, but Christ did not glorify himself, he was glorified by the Father. On the mount of transfiguration they awoke and saw the glory of Christ. Christ suffered and entered into his glory. When Christ turned the water into wine he began to manifest his glory. The old testament scripture of God not sharing his glory refers to man taking the glory for what God has done. In that respect, God has no partnership with another that shares his glory, but God certainly glorifies what he purposes to glorify. Jesus said he that seeketh his own glory is not true, but he that seeketh the glory of him which sent him is true. Glory is all about giving honor where it is due and Christ certainly is the ultimate in giving glory to God. As it is written, Let he that glory, glory in the Lord.
Mr. Steve ….> we must all understand Jesus was simple a Man just like you and me. If we are going to give God all the glory that He deserves we can not give His glory to anyone else. Jesus said How can you believe recieving Glory from one another and not seekin the Glory that comes from the ONLY GOD. Why attribute glory to anyone but God the Father, doesn't it say Jesus Christ to the Golry of God, not himself. And it say's God said I change NOT I am the same yesterday and today and forever.All thing comes from the Father, me,you, and Jesus. All have our origns from ONE GOD. God certainly elevated Jesus to his present position and requires us to honor that position He placed on Jesus. But for us to glorfy Him is wrong thats the Fathers Job, but we should Honor the position the Father place him in.
Mr. Steve…..> Jesus did not turn the water into wine, or any other miracle as far as that goes, it was the Father who performed them. Just like the deciples never performed any miracles either. God The Father performed them to confirm the words they speaking were right. Again who gets the Glory Jesus or theDeciples or the Father who did the miracles.I believe the Father should get the glory for what He did, don't you. It's just the way i see it that all…gene
Quote (Mr. Steve @ Aug. 08 2007,06:01) Laurel; John 17 expresses a Father/Son relationship. The scriptures are not abundant in this respect but they are in the gospel of John
Steven
Steve,
I fully agree there was a Father/Son relationship.
I gotta say again, when Y'shua was dead in the tomb, He did not raise Himself from the dead, but our Father in heaven did raise Y'shua from the dead. He will also raise us in the last day.Gene;
I suggest you do a word study on the word “glory” and “glorified”, you may see glory in a new light. I fully understand that unto him is the Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory. But you just might see that there is more. Take Care.
Steven
Mr. Steve…..> There is only one I will worship and Glorify and thats the same one Jesus said he worshiped and Glorified , I maintain that only God has power to glorify and He Himself glorified Jesus and i will honor that, but who are we to glorify anyone, thats the Fathers position not mine. Like is said Jesus has been highly exhaulted by the Father and i certainly do and will honor that, but it will be to the glory of the Father and no one else. Jesus is God workmen ship not his own, just as he said he could do nothing of himself. And again if I Glorify myself my glorie is nothing. Honor yes, Glorify, who am i to glorify anyone i will be happy if i can just make into the kingdom. I will leave the glorifing to the Father alone.
I am not trying to contrary, it's just i see it thats all…..gene
Gene;
Just recently I did a word study on worship. It was incredible to see all the cases in the gospel of Mathew where people worshipped Jesus. He rebuked no one doing so. Take care.
Steven
Steve,
Hey, I just thought of something! Trinitarians say that people worshiped Yeshua, and yes they did. They then use this to show he is God because of this verse:Exd 34:14 –for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God–
Well, the problem here is that He never said not to worship His Son…He just said not to worship any other god! So this is actually a verse that refutes the Trinity!
Kejonn;
They would do better to read the gospel and believe what Christ said. When they say Christ is God it's normally a case of mistaken identity. God is a general title, but normally when it was used by Christ and the apostles they were referring to the Father. God raised him from the dead. What I'm beginning to see is that trinitarians actually change the essence of the gospel message. Instead of God sent the Son, they teach God did not send his Son, he went himself because they teach Christ is God. They have to change much of what the prophets taught to and what all Israel believed. Israel was waiting for God to send the Messiah, they teach God changed his mind and just went himself because they claim Christ is God making him the Father, too. I guess they have to rewrite the gospels, too, because Jesus said no man hath seen the Father, yet they make Christ God so that makes him the Father, too. Of course, the epistles will have to be tweaked a bit, too, because Paul wrote that God was superior to Christ and failed to recognize that Christ was actually God. Then they have the brass to say to me that what I teach is not the gospel of Christ.
Take care,
Steven
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 10 2007,06:54) Steve,
Hey, I just thought of something! Trinitarians say that people worshiped Yeshua, and yes they did. They then use this to show he is God because of this verse:Exd 34:14 –for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God–
Well, the problem here is that He never said not to worship His Son…He just said not to worship any other god! So this is actually a verse that refutes the Trinity!
You need to go back and crack your bible wide open..If u think to Worship Jesus means that Jesus is God..You are so wrong..There are many verses that show Men worship others..Not in a godly fashion but as in a thank you type way..I would to worship the Messiah in a thank you type way…I would not worship him as a God..That worship only goes to the Father..In time the Messiah will have his Worship..Also note the Word Worship does not mean Divine Worship..
As the Strong's Lexicon points out, the Greek term is simply “used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank”.
Quoting from the Enhanced Strong's Lexicon for the Greek term rendered “worship”:
Strong's Number 4352 proskunevw [proskuneo /pros·koo·neh·o/] v. From 4314 and a probable derivative of 2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand); TDNT 6:758; TDNTA 948; GK 4686; 60 occurrences; AV translates as “worship” 60 times.
to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence.
among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence.
in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication.
used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank.
to the Jewish high priests.
to God.
to Christ.
to heavenly beings.
to demons.
So, we CLEARLY see that “worship” most certainly is NOT limited to worship of God. It is irrefutable! In fact, the term can even apply to “worship” of demons!to all…> as for me I will worship who Jesus worshiped and none other. I will honor and respect the position God My Father put on anyone. But worship ,NO,there is only one God and unless He tells me to worship another i will not do it. I believe that is a form of Idolatry, rather another god or another man or a demon. worship is in my opinoin for God the Father alone. Jesus did not come to be worshiped or to be served, but to serve and show us who to serve, worship, and obey. It's the Father alone no one else. This whole focus on worshiping Jesus is a result of trinitarian infulences. God the Father is more interested in us doing what Jesus said then anyone worshiping him. Where did Jesus ever say worship me. Honor yes but not worship….gene.
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