The Trinity Doctrine

Participant

Charity;

God bless you dear sister. It is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God. Jesus said flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto you, but my Father which is is heaven. He that hath an ear to hear let him hear what the spirit saith unto the churches. We must want truth before we can receive truth. Christ said he that seeketh shall find. Jerimiah 29:13 says Ye shall seek me and find me when you search for me with all your heart. The beauty of the body of Christ is when one of us finds a truth we can share that truth with the rest of the body and nourish each other spiritually. I believe that we can save each other a lot of frustration, too, by sharing our treasures with each other in Christ.

God Bless,

Steven

August 6, 2007 at 11:58 pm#63348

IM4Truth

Participant

Brothers and Sister in Christ I have to remind you of other scriptures that shows clearly that Jesus was with God before the the world began.
John 17: “And now , O Father , glorify Me together with Yourself, WITH THE GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH YOU BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.(He was Spirit)
Col.1:15 ” WHO IS THE IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD, THE FIRSTBORN OF EVERY CREATE.
Rev. 3:14…”THESE SAITH THE AMEN, THE FAITHFUL AND TREU WITNESS, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD.”

BTW I am not a J.W.
Peace and Love ……….Mrs.

August 7, 2007 at 12:37 am#63350

charity

Participant

Quote (Mr. Steve @ Aug. 07 2007,10:56)

Charity;

God Bless,

Steven

:laugh: I’m jumping for joy on my sofa in the office Mr Steve
I do not mind what the truth is; let it be what ever it maybe, I am way past defending my own knowledge, O God I pray let not the truth pass me by, and be stolen from My thoughts; let not the voice that is to deliver a portion be taken from me till I hear, Lord cause me to understand.

May the stars fall out of the sky as the heavens shake, with truth?
.Isa 13; I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

charity

August 7, 2007 at 1:27 am#63351

Participant

Quote (Mr. Steve @ Aug. 07 2007,06:08)

To all;

I would like all of you to consider John 1:1 in a new light. Jesus said the seed was the Word of God in the parable of the sower. Peter said we have been born again by the incorruptible seed, the word of God. Genesis says God made all things and its “seed” was in itself. Paul said God's eternal power and Godhead may be explained by the things which he has made. When John says in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and was God, might he be saying that the seed of eternal life (the Word) was in God. Christ was begotten of God of his Word, he is the seed of God and also the seed of Abraham. The Word was in God just as an apple's seed is in an apple. It is accurate to say the same is with the apple. I'm seeing that John 1:1 isn't referring to Christ but to God almighty and all that is begotten by him.

Later in the passage the scripture says that he came to his own. Jesus said that they were his Father's and were given to him from his Father. The Father was in the world in Christ Jesus. Jesus said that the Father was in him and he doeth the works.

This is the most refreshing post I've read in a long while regarding John 1:1.

Mr. Steve – have you seen my interpretation of John 1:1 (that I believe the LORD gave to me)? I'll post it again later this evening. I have been sharing all along here that I believe Jesus is the seed of God – that he is the literal or biological (if you are willing) Son of God. What you are suggesting is not far from this – right?

August 7, 2007 at 1:34 am#63353

Participant

Quote (IM4Truth @ Aug. 07 2007,11:58)

BTW I am not a J.W.
Peace and Love ……….Mrs.

Im4truth……John 17…does not say Jesus as a person or being prexisted in any state, and so to assume so could be an error Jesus could have meant His glory was a preordained glory by God before the beginning of the earth.

Jesus is now the firstborn ( the word firstborn in this text means first in place not in origin) Jesus being our elder and given first born statist in the family of God.

Rev 3:14….if you look at the end of the letter you will see it was the Spirit of God Speaking. Gods Spirit is the true witness and faithfull and the beginning of the creation of God, not Jesus.
Im4truth…The bible say's that we were also for known and predstinated so we could also say that we have had glory with the Father also, but we did not come into exixtence till we were born, just like Jesus was.

blessing and peace to you……gene

August 7, 2007 at 1:39 am#63355

Participant

The John 1:1 thread is bumped now for review – I posted my interpretation of the passage in the form of a old quote.

Thanks,
Mandy

August 7, 2007 at 1:50 am#63356

kenrch

Participant

In the beginning was the mind of God and the mind of God was with God and WAS God.

God's thoughts.

And God's mind became flesh. Or is it God's mind was IN flesh, the son of man.

Now when Jesus was resurrected the Son of God, did He return to be the mind of God in Flesh? A father's son has his father in him at least part of his father's mind; wouldn't you say?
The son of man had his own thoughts as well as His Father's much like your children. Are we not the same, being New creatures in Christ? Having a small piece of God, a down payment and yet our own will. We cry out Abba Father until we go home.

August 7, 2007 at 3:43 am#63365

Participant

to all…..the kingdom of God is as if a man should sow seed on the Ground, and should sleep by night and rise by day, and the seed should sprout and grow, he himself does not know how. ” For the earth yields crops by itself: first the blade, then the head, after that the full grain in the head, But when the grain ripens, immediately “he put in the sickle because the harvest has come.

the seed we sow is the word of God that we sow into our field (Hearts and minds) and we go about our way and the field (Hearts and Minds) begins think about the words and as we continue to think about them the words begin to produce in us and begins to grow and we don't know how because the Mind and Heart brings forth of itself…. gene

August 7, 2007 at 9:30 am#63387

Proclaimer

Participant

The word of God.

1) Rhema
2) Logos

They are different.

August 7, 2007 at 2:50 pm#63396

Laurel

Participant

Gene,
When I read Luke 13:9 in the KJV it says the seed grows into a great tree and the birds of the air rest in it's branches.

I understand this to mean that the tree represents One. The birds of the air are those who have the ability to fly on the wind, or in other words those who's beings have the Set-apart Spirit.

I was just wondering if there are any other interpretaions out there for Luke 13:9 which is compared to the kingdom of Elohim?

August 7, 2007 at 2:55 pm#63397

Laurel

Participant

Also I need to note that the “One” I wrote above, should actually say Messiah, Elohim is who sowed the seed. I hope everyone who reads the above will read this along side my first comment.

August 7, 2007 at 3:49 pm#63404

Participant

Laurel….I think you meant Luke 13:19 this is not talking about Jesus, it is a allegory of the Kingdom of God, it starts small and grows till all peoples of the world takes reffuge in it, and remember these are allegories in this place its referencing the Kingodm of God and in the one I mentioned the seed reperesents how the word (seed) grows in our hearts and minds(ground) and produces the fruits of God in us, it all comes thruogh the words we take into us, and if we are the good soil, they will take root and begin to grow until maturity. peace to dear sister…..gene

August 7, 2007 at 3:56 pm#63405

Participant

t8….I am not sure what you are saying sperma is different from logos also, but these are being used a alogories of things and repersent a parallel storys or parables, which Jesus used alot….peace to you….gene

August 7, 2007 at 4:17 pm#63408

Participant

Gene;

You are saying that Christ did not exist as the Son of God before coming to earth, except in glory or seed form, he was is the procreation of God. Generally, from this perspective it is argued that substantially all of the scriptures that refer to Christ are prophetic;e.g., “the Lord said to my Lord sit at my right hand…” I fully understand what your perspective. It is true that we are before ordained in Christ. However, I submit the following to you. We believe the father knew us before being created. The difference with Christ is that he claimed to have known the Father as a Son before coming to earth. That is a substantial difference. His claim wasn't just that the Father knew him, but that he also knew God. There are several scriptures in John that state the Son was with the Father before coming to earth. From these scriptures I can only conclude that the Son of God was incarnated. Colossians states that all things were made by him and for him. How can you conclude that he was not with the Father before the world was when he said he was in John 17:5? If he was only with God in seed he would not be able to make such statements and claims to have known the Father and to have created the world.

August 7, 2007 at 4:32 pm#63412

Participant

Quote (Mr. Steve @ Aug. 08 2007,04:17)

The difference with Christ is that he claimed to have known the Father as a Son before coming to earth. That is a substantial difference. His claim wasn't just that the Father knew him, but that he also knew God.

When you have time, can you give us these scriptures? Thanks.

August 7, 2007 at 4:43 pm#63414

Participant

Not3in1

John 17:5; John 6:62; John 1:15, 30; Hebrews 1:2; Col. 1:16-17

Take Care

Steven

August 7, 2007 at 5:31 pm#63416

Laurel

Participant

While we continue to disagree on the details of whether or not Y'shua pre-existed, let us keep in mind that there is a degree to which we agree.

I read in Scripture that in Spirit, Y'shua did exist before the creation. I read that without Y'shua nothing existed that ever existed or ever will exist.

The how He existed is maybe not for you to know, just that in some way He did, whether by Word, or by Spirit.

I read that Elohim had a plan from before creation, Y'shua was a part of it.

For now, we sould follow the Messiah because He will lead us to our Father and the His heavenly kingdom. As we continue in the footsteps of Y'shua Messiah, all things will be revealed to us as we grow in the Spirit of truth.

We must know that Y'shua's works are to fulfill what was written in the Torah and the prophets. All is not fulfilled at this present time, for if it was we would be in the kingdom and there would be no more death. Until then… we guard His perfect Torah which means “instruction”. This is how He knows we are His, and this is how we know who are sisters and brothers in Him are.

There is so much to learn, if feel we are stuck in something that we can not prove, because there are other “things” we need to see first. We should look and listen for these things.

August 7, 2007 at 6:01 pm#63421

Participant

Laurel;

John 17 expresses a Father/Son relationship. The scriptures are not abundant in this respect but they are in the gospel of John

Steven

August 7, 2007 at 6:25 pm#63424