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hebrews says the word of God “little w” is sharper than any double edged sword it seperates soul and spirit joints and marrow. Just like in our body joints and marrow are important to the body and are parts of the body they have different functions joints cushion marrow makes blood cells etc. So the word can seperate what the difference is between our soul and spirit. I believe corinthians does this in chapter 2 first corinthians and does it so clearly that it is a building block scripture into our nature.
[seeking the truth So you believe in the preexisting of Jesus? Interesting. Please go to the tread on Preexisting you will find some interesting Posts]
IM4Truth,
I tried searching for the Pre-existing column, but I could not find it. I'm not sure which category I should search under.
But honestly I don't know enought about the Bible comprehensively or thoroughly, to prove the pre-exsiting of Christ.But from my understanding on reading Proverbs 8:22-30 “The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: . When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: when he established the clouds above: then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him.”(See also Rev. 3:14)
Jesus Christ(Wisdom) before made flesh claimed to have been engaged in the creation of the world. It is why he said in JOHN8:58 ” I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born I Am.” 56)” Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad.” My understanding is.. it's through God's Word and his promise that begotten Jesus in flesh. So therefore he was pre-existing in God's bosom before coming to earth as a Man. (I don't know).
For instance from reading Isaiah7:14 God of his own free grace gives us a sign Of deliverance. A virgin concieving a child..His promises od a deliverance his Word made flesh. I think this is when God begat a son when His WORD/WISDOM came to flesh.
Psalm 2:7 “I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.
Psalm 72:11 And let all kings bow down before him, All nations serve him.
Jeremiah 31:9 “With weeping they will come, And by supplication I will lead them; I will make them walk by streams of waters, On a straight path in which they will not stumble; For I am a father to Israel, And Ephraim is My firstborn.”
Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Revelation 19:16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”
This not only fulfills God's promise of Salvation but also His promise to David, that his will reign as kings forever from now until eternity. (psalm89)Isaiah11:10 Then in that day The nations will resort to the root of Jesse, Who will stand as a signal for the peoples; And His resting place will be glorious. God's promise to David that his decendants will reign as kings forever until eternity this is True. God said on Psalm 89 He will make him His firstborn son the mightest King on earth and by authority he will grow in power.God's covenant with him will never end. God is talking about Jesus the decendant of David, because Mary and Joseph is from the decendant of Jesse.
My question is..Is this when God bacame a Father or was he always a Father, because Wisdom was with God from the beginning of the creation? or was the WISDOM/WORD of God just took form over time and the full result is Christ?…(Im confused)
This not only fulfills God's promise of Salvation but also His promise to David, that his DECENDANTS will reign as kings forever from now until eternity. (psalm89)
oops …forgot to type “decendants”
Michaels;
Are you a man? Is God in you? Where did Christ say he was 100% God as men teach, and 100% man. The fully God and fully man doctrine. The Father stated Christ was his Son. Just because the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Christ, does this mean that Christ is no longer subject to the Father. We, too, are pressing toward the mark of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. For those who attain that prize, does that mean that they will be fully God and fully men (or women)? We press forward to be conformed to the image of the Son, but we will never be equal to God.
Chip, (answer to your post on pg. 817
First of all I want you to know that I see Adam and Eve had a one on one face to face relationship with our Creator. They were not connected to Him through the Spirit, but physically. After they sinned, they needed the Spirit of the Messiah to cover their sin. Because Messiah had not died for their sin, they were rquired to sacrifice to blood of animals, thus the veil covered their sin, so they were able to continue their relationship with our Creator.
Also, Able was “in the way”. After Able was murdered by Cain, there was none to carry on for Adam, for YHWH. After Seth was born, there was once again hope. See Eve's expression how blessed she felt in her hope of this son.
We are flesh, our soul is the breath of life from our Creator our soul is our individuality where our conscience lives, the Spirit that connects us to the Creator through baptisim is how we communicate to Him, through Messiah of course. According to Scripture animals do know that the Creator feeds them. Animals are not judged because they do not know good from evil, they follow instinct to survive.
As humans, we are born with a curiosity as to who we are and where we came from. We seek answers to these built in questions about our origin. Elohim put this in our thoughts.
We learn right from wrong by our parents, and when they teach consequences to our actions we are better off for it. As we mature we make decisions that can affect our futures. We should be able to take over from where our parents could no longer dicipline us, we dicipline ourselves. Some of us learn rather early, some of learn rather late, some of us never learn. Once we reach that “age of reason”, our conscience is open for the seed of the Spirit. Whether Elohim Himself speaks to our soul, our conscience or whether it is a pastor, a parent, a friend, etc. We begin a new journey seeking His truth. Step by step, we grow, accepting to follow Messiah or not. Children who have good parental examples to follow or other close friends or relatives, have a head start on their Spiritual journey, and also have the support to keep them in the Way.
Without the Names (YHWH, Y'shua, Elohim), I can't explan how we came to be, or what we are, or where we are headed. It is no longer in my human mind to consider such things without first considering what I know.
I can say this, the fleshy mind naturally leads us toward sin because Satan is the Prince of this world, and we are part of it. We can't find true love or peace or happiness or direction without following Messiah. Our Father gives us protection from Satan's evil way as long as we remain faithfull to Him.
Seeking the Truth;
If you want to understand the pre-existence of Christ read John. Christ says he was with the Father before coming to earth, even before the foundation of the world.
Steven
Seeking the truth,
I have enjoyed very much reading the Scipture you qouted above for thus Y'shua has always existed in the Spirit of the Father, and was the Father's plan to show His Son to us for our salvation.Mr. Steve,
I apologize for my goings on and on. It was a reply to a question asked of me previously. Even so, if you read the first paragraph on my reply, it does indicate pre existance at least in the form of His coming and the fact that Y'shua was part of the forgiveness of sin, since the time of the very first sin on earth.
Peace,
LaurelLaurel;
God bless you dear sister. In following some of the threads its interesting how they metamorphisize the longer the thread.
Steven
Seeking,
Welcome!
The preexistence thread has been bumped for you…..enjoy! It's one of my favorite topics. I'm really busy now or I would be responding. I just check-in here and there.
Instead of reading John to try and figure out if Jesus preexisted or not, try Luke where his conception and birth are explained so simply. Then ask yourself – did you preexist your birth? Does it say in Luke that before Jesus was born he existed? Why doesn't IF he did? It doesn't give us that lesson because Luke (a disciple) is unaware of this type of teaching. Ponder, ponder…….
Hello Laurel, Read your response and I am in accord with almost everything that you have said. And for those of you (steve) that I may seem like I am on the wrong thread I apologize. Again, for the people who have not read my posts from earlier, I believe some things that are contrary to some of the things I read people posting here. It has got me questioning and in the word with a new zeal and hunger for truth. So I am starting with some of the things that I believe and that have led me to my current understanding of the word. It really started with genisis chap 1:26-27. On this site I have heard several observations about the inaccuracy and biased translations of the christian cannon. Pointing out some of the attacks on the inspired word of God and how the enemy has tried to work through persausive men to change that scripture to suit their on doctrine agendas. I do not do anything except read the cannon so if some things have been changed in the niv then there is a good chance I may have some things that need to be exposed in my beliefs. Fortunately for me I am not above change, but with me it will be painful because I have come to my beliefs over years and years of prayer and study.(I will admit some of the study subjects I thought I knew I may need to question.) I respectfully warned everybody that I was a handful. I begged for mercy and for patience because I know that this may be old ground for alot of you but it is brand new ground for me. I feel maybe my friend,through the will of the Father led me to this site just to test what I believe. as Iron sharpens Iron so might we have to grind in the word a little bit upon each other to test the spirit or intent of our message. I also jokingly commented that after 4 or 5 times I will get it I am not slow like some people ha ha. I do believe that there are 3 parts to the Father (Spirit,God,Jesus) but I do not believe that Jesus is in anyway equal to the Father because He is created from the Father. I like the term vessel of the Father because our flesh is only a vessel of our soul and spirit. We will have a new vessel when we return to the Father after judgement nothing like the vessel we are in now. If maybe I need to leave this post and start a new thread (as you guys say) that is more appropriate then I can. But I do want to continue with this topic about the Father and his nature so that I may learn whatever it is the Spirit would guide me towards. I cannot be the only non denominational christian out there looking so maybe these posts will help someone else. Also as an Elder in my church the bible is quite clear that there is a special place in Hell for someone like me if I lead his people astray that is why I take the word so seriously and when I believe something I do not easily shrink from it. As a 37 year old believer I have a different understanding of the word then I did at 27 or 17 and I do not want to be the same when I am 47.So I search and pray and fast and watch and listen and whatever else I have to do to grow in the truth. I have never had conversations about the difficult and deep things of the Father with anyone else and this site seems to be full of them. So again be patient with me if it is Gods will and lets grow together in spirit and in truth because I want to be the type of worshipper the Father seeks.
Laurel, thank you for taking the time to talk with me I agree with almost everything you said but am confused about had a physical relationship with the Creator not a Spirit led one. Please go into detail on this point a little.
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