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IM4Truth you should listen to ACC. Just because he doesn't hold your beliefs on the doctrine of hell doesn't mean that you shouldn't respond to him.
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 04 2007,08:59) Seeking, I would surmise that many teachers amd preachers you mentioned don't really think of the Trinity the same way those on this board do. They stay busy teaching and studying other things. I took the Trinity doctrine for granted (and true) for 20 years because I have been in Southern Baptist churches my whole Christian life. The fact of the matter is, you rarely hear the Trinity being brought up in most churches and almost as rarely do you hear people say Jesus is God.
Yet, we are told that the Trinity is foundational to Christian faith. The lack of teaching denies this IMO. And I think that it is not taught because trying to explain it to the masses is not easy. So my assumption is that most take a silent support position.
When I told my former pastor I no longer believed the Trinity, he gave me a book called The Forgotten Trinity. The title says it all. Most people do not really know what it is and most put it to the back of their mind and avoid talking about it.
kejonnI am curious as to how you know what all these Churches preaches since you spent 20 years in a Baptist denomination
Have you been in any full Gospel, penticostal, charismatic churches long enough to know what they teach?
While it is true that most ministers are busy preaching Jesus and him crucified does not mean that there is not teaching going on the churches regarding the trinity. I have been in full Gospell churches for 33 years and the trinity is understood and Jesus is praised and worshipped as God. There is also much teaching on the work of the Holy Spirit which trinitarians believe is God also.
Just curious as to how you can make the observation that they dont talk about it because it is hard to understand.
I dont find this so at all.
I have visited many denominations and the Trinity is hardly preached. I think this because it is little understood and even though it is their founding statement it isn't preached often.
However I have heard many times that Jesus is God (himself).
Denominations are not the body of Christ. They are simply mans attempt at building the Church that Jesus said he would build.
They are the works of men.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 03 2007,17:39) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 04 2007,08:59) Seeking, I would surmise that many teachers amd preachers you mentioned don't really think of the Trinity the same way those on this board do. They stay busy teaching and studying other things. I took the Trinity doctrine for granted (and true) for 20 years because I have been in Southern Baptist churches my whole Christian life. The fact of the matter is, you rarely hear the Trinity being brought up in most churches and almost as rarely do you hear people say Jesus is God.
Yet, we are told that the Trinity is foundational to Christian faith. The lack of teaching denies this IMO. And I think that it is not taught because trying to explain it to the masses is not easy. So my assumption is that most take a silent support position.
When I told my former pastor I no longer believed the Trinity, he gave me a book called The Forgotten Trinity. The title says it all. Most people do not really know what it is and most put it to the back of their mind and avoid talking about it.
kejonnI am curious as to how you know what all these Churches preaches since you spent 20 years in a Baptist denomination
Have you been in any full Gospel, penticostal, charismatic churches long enough to know what they teach?
While it is true that most ministers are busy preaching Jesus and him crucified does not mean that there is not teaching going on the churches regarding the trinity. I have been in full Gospell churches for 33 years and the trinity is understood and Jesus is praised and worshipped as God. There is also much teaching on the work of the Holy Spirit which trinitarians believe is God also.
Just curious as to how you can make the observation that they dont talk about it because it is hard to understand.
I dont find this so at all.
WJ,Just curious, but why would a book need to be written called The Forgotten Trinity? Seems the title pretty much tells you that most denominations do not teach it much at all. I've never even seen a Full Gospel Church in my neck of the woods and I live smack dab in the middle of the Bible Belt
.If you did a impromptu survey you'd find out that most Christians don't have a clue on the Trinity. Try it some day, I bet you would be surprised.
IM4Truth..
I know what you mean I was banned on HHS(HIS HOLY SPACE) after only for 2 weeks because I had questioned The doctrine and how it was not lining up with the Scriptures.
I also tried to express my point of view on this with my family and friends, but with no avail.
I've believed in Christ my entire life since I was raised in the church. I've always believed that Christ was the Son of God. All the churches I've attended with rare exception profess the trinity. As a young man when I decided to read the scriptures as my sole source of truth instead of commentaries, I began to see in John how Christ presented himself as the vessel of God. For instance, he made statements which I hadn't heard preached at anytime over the pulpit. Christ said that he that received him did not receive him but him who sent him. He said he that believed did not believe on him but on him who sent him. He said that he that rejected him rejected not him but him who sent him. So it was easy to see that Christ was very emphatic that he was not claiming to be God, but represented God the Father as the Son of God. Indeed, he was the very express image of God. Then I began to see that Christ said the words that he spoke were not his but his Father's. The doctrine was not his but his Father's. It became very clear that the Word that everone disputes about in John 1:1 belonged to the Father, not the Son. Jesus said the doctrine and Words were not his, but his Father's. Notice that in all these passages Jesus doesn't just say that if you receive me you receive the Father's, too, and likewise in all other respects. He says he that receives me, “does not receive me” but him who sent me. Christ is continually telling us that he is not joined eternally with his Father. Indeed, as the Father declared he is the Son of God, who was exalted by God.
In the last many years here in the USA there has been a huge movement on receiving from God. I like to listen to various ministries on TV to get an idea of where they're heading spiritually. Most of these ministries are focused on teaching christians how to develop their faith. I don't think I've heard a teaching on the Godhead in many many years. However, you can understand how they believe with respect to the Godhead by what they say. Recently, I heard a well-known baptist minister say that Jesus said he didn't know when he was coming back when he was on the earth, but now he does because he has returned to his place in the Godhead. Of course, the scriptures say otherwise, but it spoke of the darkness that many churches are in spiritually. I believe we are living in the days that Paul spoke of where they will turn away their ears from the truth and heap to themselves teachers having itching ears. They want a gospel that they can use to please themselves. The scriptures warn of this kind of gospel. The book of II Peter is almost soley devoted to this warning. Christ said in Revelation that certain ones were poor, naked, blind, and miserable, and didn't even know it. They believed that they were fine because they were prospering financially, but Christ saw how they really looked spiritually that they were not ready for his coming and would be cast out of his mouth into great tribulation and be an example of the unwise virgins and servants, and those that are not kept from the hour of temptation. Behold, I come quickly!Chipwhite I have not asked Him about that, I don't know. Thank you for your reply and concern.
Mrs.IM4Truthseeking the truth We have something in common, unfortunately. That shows me tho that if our Heavenly Father does not draws us to Him, we can talk until we are blue in the face, they will not understand. It is simple not their time yet. Having patience is the hardest thing for me, I want to share the truth with Him so badly.
Peace be with you Mrs.IM4TruthMr. Steve,
They are talking about being ostracized for disbelieving the Trinity. After 815 pages, I don't think a few extra posts relaying personal experiences will hurt
.Mr. Steve I was just answering others Post. Thank you for your input about other Churches. You are right,most do not say anything about the trinity. When our Grandson and later our Son started to go to the Baptist Church, I had no idea that they believed in the trinity. So We went couple of times, until We started to ask question. The Pastor even came to our House and we discussed the trinity doctrine, but there was no way to convince Him otherwise. So after a while He said:”Let's just say we agree to disagree.” That was the end of that. We never went back. We also listened to Mr. Adrian Rogers, Dr.Kennedy and some others cant remember their names anymore. All are teaching on how to be a good person in general, but never on the trinity. So sad to me. I stopped listening to them too. Its been years now, since my Husband and I have studied the Bible by ourselves. Since my Husband is retired, He studies a lot. He enjoys Prophecy the most. While I like the Psalms and Proverbs the most.
I guess we all have our favorite scriptures. Nice talking to you
Peace and Love IM4TruthI believe that some of the baptist churches that preach once saved always saved makes it easy to get into the scriptures and show that we can lose salvation and there are points in salvation that there is no return from. By my posts I am laying out the very core and simple things I believe in for they lead to more meatier things. If there be something in them that is false then this will also show me through the relaying of that foundation and as one member posts I will either change or cease to be an honest man. But maybe what is important to you is not to him at this time and by showing him something else that may be wrong that is not as important to him that may open the door to the Spirit to lead him towards something else. So that you can communicate beyond the words which is extremely rare but does happen. It is given to us with a promise (smiley face) sorry don't know how to use the emoticons.
kejonn Thank you. I am a slow typist, it takes me awhile to reply and others come in between me with their posts. Funny Day today. Ha,Ha
Peace and Love Mrs.IM4TruthSeeking,
Whoah, first thing you see:
That statement is bold, and a lie. I would like for even one person to show me that belief in the deity of Christ is essential. Just one. Show me any gospel message from the Bible that says “You must believe the Jesus is God” for salvation.
This just revealed something to me I've missed for some time now. I think for the most part, Trinitarians are very exclusionary. If they are not from the RCC, they are one step below it. They add to the gospel as presented in scripture and might as well teach the Law. Paul tells us the essentials of salvation, and the deity of Christ is not found in it
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.Kejonn..I see it..
When I signed up I was not aware what they meant…because I know Christ's diety. He is devine for he is the only one begotten from the Father. He had the fullness of God in him as well as a Man, that is why he is the MEDIATOR.
I had no IDEA..that those people in HHS confessed the he was God in the flesh.
It's ironic that people believe this, but you see if you believe that Jesus is God it goes against what the Apostles were preaching. The Good News is about A SON..a Son of God who was raised from the dead by the will of the Father by the power of his Holy Spirit. He is Lord TO the glory of the Father.
We are made right with God by placing our Faith in Jesus Christ.
If you confess Jesus as God, it changes the whole meaning of the GOSPEL. You are going against what God has revealed, and not only that, but you are also tarnishinging his reputation as the ALMIGHTY GOD, because you claimed he died.
The Bible reveals that God’s nature His character is absolutely perfect and holy. And He is also immutable and unchangeable: “For I am the Lord, I change not…” Unlike man, when God states that He is going to do something, He does it. His testimony is true and His promises are sure in fact, His Word declares that He cannot lie! He would never deceive, beguile, delude or confuse anyone, Theirfore these people are confuse or maybe are blinded by God himself. I don't know..what do you think?
Oh kejoon..
the verse they love to use is John 8:58 Jesus said” I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born I am” but they don't mentioned the verses before this. 54) Jesus said..”If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say is 'our God'
55) and you have not come to know him, but I know him, if I say I do not know him, I shall be a liar like you, but I know him and I keep his word. 56)” Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad.As Mediator, he was the appointed Messiah, long before Abraham; the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, Re 13:8. The Lord Jesus was made of God Wisdom, Righteousness, Sanctification, and Redemption, to Adam, and Abel, and all that lived and died by faith in him, before Abraham.
This can be cross refernce to John 7:29 “I know Him, because I am from Him, and He sent Me.”
John 8:19 So they were saying to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also.”John 8:19 So they were saying to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also.”
John 8:44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
John 8:51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”
John 15:10 “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
John 15:21 “But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me.
It's clear to me that He was sent by the Father and that he is not the Almighty God, his father is. When jesus said “before Abraham was born I am” he was making a statement that he was with God, when God told Abraham about his promise of the Messiah, he was the Word.
seeking truth…..> you hit the nail on the head they (trinitarians) preach a Lie and that Lie is that Jesus is GOD. That creates the Man Of Sin it's a lie about Jesus preached by nearly all churches. earlier some were talking about never hearing the Trinity subject brought up in most churches, but i disagree every time most decieved “christians” go to church they are being feed the false droctrine and they go to worship Jesus as a God, you hardly ever hear God the FAther ever mentioned in these churches, It's all about Jesus because He is their God and they worship Him. And because they don't love the truth God has Sent a Delusion into then in order for them to believe the Lie, Just as it say's in 2Thes2 . All who defiy Jesus are part of that deception. I am glad you came to see that God is with you or you couldnt' see it. peace to you …..gene
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