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Quote (Laurel @ July 13 2007,04:02) Sorry, I need to rewrite that.
If you believe the trinity doctrine, the Spirit is not growing in you, and may not even be in you at all. It is possible to lose it if you do not grow in it. Before you go around teaching, like the wolves do, try and get it right.It is also possible to think the Spirit is in you when it is not. How will you know for sure?
If you keep His commands ALL of them, then you know for sure that the Spirit is in you, and you are His. Do you keep the Sabbath or is it ok to do whatever feels good, are you blessed with the “other grace?”
John 14:21, John 15:10 and,
1Jo 2:3 And hereby, we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
LIf you dont know for sure the Spirit of God lives in you then you are not saved!
1 Cor 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is **the Lord**, but by the Holy Ghost.1 Jn 2:20
But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and **ye know** all things.2 Tim 1:12
For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for **I know** whom I have believed, **and am persuaded** that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
Quote (Laurel @ July 13 2007,04:07) WJ
The Spirit is not a person, it is the power of the Father, period.
Another JW huh?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 13 2007,09:26) Quote (Laurel @ July 13 2007,04:02) Sorry, I need to rewrite that.
If you believe the trinity doctrine, the Spirit is not growing in you, and may not even be in you at all. It is possible to lose it if you do not grow in it. Before you go around teaching, like the wolves do, try and get it right.It is also possible to think the Spirit is in you when it is not. How will you know for sure?
If you keep His commands ALL of them, then you know for sure that the Spirit is in you, and you are His. Do you keep the Sabbath or is it ok to do whatever feels good, are you blessed with the “other grace?”
John 14:21, John 15:10 and,
1Jo 2:3 And hereby, we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
LIf you dont know for sure the Spirit of God lives in you then you are not saved!
1 Cor 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is **the Lord**, but by the Holy Ghost.1 Jn 2:20
But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and **ye know** all things.2 Tim 1:12
For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for **I know** whom I have believed, **and am persuaded** that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
WJ,You and I can disagree about the Trinity all day long but one point remains: if you have put your faith and trust in Yeshua as savior and Lord and confess with your mouth that he died, was buried, and God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. In the end, I think whether or not you beleive in the Trinity, if you place your trust in these and live according to His will, you will see Him one day. And if you live for Him, you will get to cast your crowns at his feet one day.
I hope and pray I have not truly offended anyone with my posts. Unless you are merely offended with my disbelief of an extra-biblical doctrine. In any case, I aks that you all forgive me if I have been mean-spirited or sarcastic (in a mean way
)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 13 2007,09:28) Quote (Laurel @ July 13 2007,04:07) WJ
The Spirit is not a person, it is the power of the Father, period.
Another JW huh?
WJ,
Why do you believe that the Holy Spirit is a person? I know that some verses (Or I think) use “he” but the word used is one that can also translated as “it”.Nick; Jesus said when he the Spirit of Truth is come he will not speak of himself, but will take of mine and shew it unto you. Then Christ said that he said take of mine because all things the Father hath are mine. Christ said that the Holy Spirit will not speak of “himself” expressly identifying the Holy Spirit as a separate person in deity. Notice hear that the Holy Spirit mirrored what Christ said, that he spoke not his own words, but that which he heard from the Father he spake unto them, always giving pre-eminence to the Father.
Wj If the Spirit is a Person then The Spirit (Person) is the Father of Jesus. But We know that, that is not true. So I believe that it is The Fathers Spirit.
I had to give my two cents to that Mrs.IM4Truth
Why did Christ command that we baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost if the Holy Ghost is not a distinct person?
Quote (Mr. Steve @ July 13 2007,11:03) Nick; Jesus said when he the Spirit of Truth is come he will not speak of himself, but will take of mine and shew it unto you. Then Christ said that he said take of mine because all things the Father hath are mine. Christ said that the Holy Spirit will not speak of “himself” expressly identifying the Holy Spirit as a separate person in deity. Notice hear that the Holy Spirit mirrored what Christ said, that he spoke not his own words, but that which he heard from the Father he spake unto them, always giving pre-eminence to the Father.
Hi Mr S,
There is only one Deity.
God is One.
He sent his Son and filled him with His own Spirit making them as One.
We follow Christ also in being made one with God in Christ by that Spirit.
The Spirit of Christ serves the Word of God and does not teach beyond what is written.
God's is ever in heaven and manifests in His creation as His Spirit.
The Spirit of God is not another person from God but proceeds from God.Quote (Mr. Steve @ July 13 2007,11:09) Why did Christ command that we baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost if the Holy Ghost is not a distinct person?
Hi Mr S,
Did the disciples do so? Why not?
There are threads on this verse as Eusebius claimed it was not written originally in this form but
“…in my name”Nick You are right, We cannot be Brothers of Jesus, if one believes in the trinity. Just one more prove that the trinity doctrine is false.
Prove all things
Mrs.IM4TRuthQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2007,09:14) Hi ,
Here is the trinity circular use of LOGIC in all it's glory“1. In John 20:28 Thomas declared Yeshua to be his Lord and God.
2. A Jewish monotheist has only ONE personal God, namely YHWH.
3. It's therefore implausible to think that Thomas had acquired another God.
4. So Yeshua must be true God.”
So simplistic.
So false.
NHHere is the logic of a henotheist!
God made a second image of himself and then created all things through the second image of himself.
Not only that but he commands the angels to worship this second Image of himself and then we find all of creation worshipping this second image of himself in Rev 5.
Then God tells all men to come to this second image and bow down to him and accept him as their Lord and Master!
God gives him the power to forgive sins, in fact God turns all of his power and authority over to this second image of himself!
Then God reveals to his Apostles a new revelation.
Though God had previously said that he created all things, (of course all things would include the second image), “By himself” “Alone” and that there was “none beside him, “neither was there none like him”, (though they claim that this second image was beside him),
yet now God says “surprise” I forgot to tell you that I created all things through my second image, which is a smaller god a smaller divine being than I am. I did this so you could relate to me!
Then God pauses and says “But wait a minute, how could I have created “all things” through the second Image if I created the second image”? O well! They wont care!
And then God says “come to me” through this image I have created of myself.
And God says, “You are now under a New covenant, the 1st and second commandment is no longer valid!
This is the kind of hogwash that men believe today.
Hi W,
Have you found difficulties in aligning scriptures?
Join the team.
But do not add human theories to try to resolve them.
Let scripture explain what can be known.Quote (kejonn @ July 13 2007,10:50) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 13 2007,09:28) Quote (Laurel @ July 13 2007,04:07) WJ
The Spirit is not a person, it is the power of the Father, period.
Another JW huh?
WJ,
Why do you believe that the Holy Spirit is a person? I know that some verses (Or I think) use “he” but the word used is one that can also translated as “it”.
KBecause an “it” can't think, speak, guide, hear, comfort, strengthen, pray, be blasphemed, grieved, lead, glorify, testify etc, etc, etc.
Jn 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another (allos) Comforter (parakletos) , that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him (autos) not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.Greek for Another, 'Allos' which means; other
Greek for comforter 'parakletos' which means:
1) summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aida) one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
b) one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor
Greek for Him 'autos' which means;
1) himself, herself, themselves, itself2) he, she, it
The same greek word (autos) is used for the Father and the Son and men etc.
I suppose the Father and the Son is not a him or a he but an it?
Jn 16:
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *he shall not speak of himself*; but whatsoever he shall hear, *that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
14 *He shall glorify me*: for he shall receive of mine, *and shall shew it unto you*.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he (the Spirit) *shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*.Is The Father subservient to the Son?
nICK….what you said is right if the scriptures havn't been altered by translators who force the text to coinsigh with their oun trinitarian Idology's which many scholar's have shown and isn't is obevious by all the different translation.
get the book Misquoting Jesus by Bart D. Ehrman, and i think
you may be suprised at what unbised scholars have discovered, it's quite an eye opener.it is a mistake to think what you read is acqurate and has not been unaltered, because there are hundreds if no thousand of mistranslated texts, not to mention adding the definite article (the) to hundreds of scriptures, and using caotials to imoly a person instead the simple meaning of the words used in the text.
the scriptures have been altered by trinitarian translators to push there own trinitarian Idology's. ….gene
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 13 2007,11:47)
NHHere is the logic of a henotheist!
Hmmm, is a henotheist inferior to a polytheist? Aren't they both saying there is more than one God? Cuz slice and dice it any way you want, 3-gods-in-one is still 3 gods.Quote God made a second image of himself and then created all things through the second image of himself.
Nah, doesn't say God made Yeshua, pre-earth or otherwise. But it is interesting that God made man in His image and placed him over all of the earth.Quote Not only that but he commands the angels to worship this second Image of himself and then we find all of creation worshipping this second image of himself in Rev 5.
Why not, a papa wants the best for his son. Where do think we inherited the strong desire to place our children before ourselves so often?Quote Then God tells all men to come to this second image and bow down to him and accept him as their Lord and Master!
Hey, all things were created for him [Yeshua] (Col 1:16). Including Man. Not my fault God planned it that way.Quote God gives him the power to forgive sins, in fact God turns all of his power and authority over to this second image of himself!
Inheritance will do that for ya. Do you understand the concept of Fatherly love? A true father wants the best for his children, and wants them to be just like him. Where do you think we get that instinct from? Selfish fathers want to control and want everything for themselves.But note that the feeling goes both ways. Yeshua often emphasized that he did his Father's will. He said true worshipers would worship the Father. Yeshua shared the glory of his Father but he didn't want it in place of his Father.
Lest you forget, the most important concept here is that we see the ultimate Father-Son relationship in action.
Quote Then God reveals to his Apostles a new revelation.
What new revelation?Quote Though God had previously said that he created all things, (of course all things would include the second image), “By himself” “Alone” and that there was “none beside him, “neither was there none like him”, (though they claim that this second image was beside him), yet now God says “surprise” I forgot to tell you that I created all things through my second image, which is a smaller god a smaller divine being than I am. I did this so you could relate to me!
Yeah, not nice of ol' God to do that to us huh. Its a shame He hid the fact that he was actually 3-gods-in-1 too. Or better yet, that He was going to eventually develop a multiple personality disorder. We were all duped.Or maybe, just maybe, God didn't tell the people because it was not important for them to know at the time. They had a hard time worshiping the God they did know. And BTW, He did promise them a Messiah. Well, waddya know, God came through after all!
Why would God have to tell man about another God if there really wasn't another God? Makes all the sense in the world.
Quote Then God pauses and says “But wait a minute, how could I have created “all things” through the second Image if I created the second image”? O well! They wont care!
Or on the flipside, maybe He said “I created everything by my first personality but it was through my second personality. Where is that third personality going to fit into all of this? Oh, I'll just add him later”.Yeshua was not created. Snore.
Quote And then God says “come to me” through this image I have created of myself.
Hey, God was the one who made the rule that we couldn't see Him and live. Well, at least not in this rotten body. Because of man's sin, an intercessor was necessary. But that's easy, it happens through God's 2nd personality, right?Quote And God says, “You are now under a New covenant, the 1st and second commandment is no longer valid!
Why are they no longer valid? Are you talking about the first 2 that God gave the children of Israel or the greatest two Yeshua spoke of? We'll work off of both1. “You shall have no other gods before me”
Non-trinitarians worship God the Father through the Son. In fact, if you'll notice Non-Ts place more emphasis on this than Trinitarians do. Trinitarians worship either the Father or the Son, doesn't matter, they're both God. Strange though, they don't worship the Holy Spirit but its the 3rd God isn't it?In fact, if anyone is in danger of violating the First Commandment, its Trinitarians. Your user name says it all “WorshippingJesus”.
Yeshua said it the best: “true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth”.
2. You shall not make for yourself an idol”
Let's see, what idol can I see in non-trinitarians…hmmm. None I can think of. Now Trinitarians, they have this three-faced God…OK, on to the greatest commandments as put forth by Yeshua
YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.
Well, non-T's see the Father as God, so no issue here. I guess the issue is if you believe Yeshua is God, then you feel we're not loving God because we put the Father first. BUT, I guess that means I gotta love the Holy Spirit with all my soul, mind and strength. Hard to divide my full love between three Gods, but I'll try.YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.
I don't know that this one is affected either way.Quote This is the kind of hogwash that men believe today. You said it. Its amazing how many people believe God is really three Gods, but yet just one God. Blows my mind.
wj…..laurel is right the spirit is not a person< Jesus said who be it when the spirit comes it will not speak of it self, but what so ever it hears that will it speak. Why will it not speak of it's self, because it has not will of its self, it only does the will of the Father, it is that part of the Father that indwells us that's why it's called Holy Spirit because it part of the Father. dosn't say God works in us to will and do his pleasure, this is the yoke Jesus had on and told us to put it on also. It's what connects all who have it with the Father and Jesus also . gene
kejonn…..> if you ever write a book i want a copy. you expressed it as clear as it gets…..thanks…. gene
To Iam4,
Sorry you were forced to something you did not believe in, and also sorry that you are still a gentile.
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