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Quote (Laurel @ July 13 2007,04:15) There are only two kinds of laws or doctrine, one comes from YHWH, the other comes from “grey Matter” deception. Moses law is YHWH's law and the law Y'shua lived by. There is a perfect example of how believing in the trinity doctrine can lead one astray.
Yes it was the law He fulfilled also, right?Luk 24:44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”
The law of “grey matter” or in other words the “image” or our imagination, man-mad law, is the law that Y'shua abolished, Y'shua did not abolish His Father's law.
If you knew Him, you would know this.
Jam 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.Torah is freedom from sin. Be a doer and remember the Sabbath. Do not forget.
Hi Ken,
Yes the laws Messiah is fulfilling. All is not fulfilled or we would be in the renewd heaven and earth. Some things are fulfilled. Passover was fulfilled it Golgotha, on the cross.The Feasts of YHWH are shadow picture of these important things.
Trumpets will proclaim His return as Judge. There is so much to see in the Feasts.I know many who know the basics of salvation, don't see the importance of the Feasts, because once again the great harlot has proclaimed the old laws were nailed to the cross, but that isn't so. The Feasts give us insight and grow our relationship to the knowledge of who our Father in heaven is and why He is so important to out Savior. Y'shua is the Word spoken of when I say Feast. Y'shua went to the Feasts, the deciples, went to the Feasts, and so should we.
If we do not “go to the Feasts” we will be like the blind or the children in darkness, who will not see when He comes.
Quote (Laurel @ July 13 2007,04:30) Hi Ken,
Yes the laws Messiah is fulfilling. All is not fulfilled or we would be in the renewd heaven and earth. Some things are fulfilled. Passover was fulfilled it Golgotha, on the cross.The Feasts of YHWH are shadow picture of these important things.
Trumpets will proclaim His return as Judge. There is so much to see in the Feasts.I know many who know the basics of salvation, don't see the importance of the Feasts, because once again the great harlot has proclaimed the old laws were nailed to the cross, but that isn't so. The Feasts give us insight and grow our relationship to the knowledge of who our Father in heaven is and why He is so important to out Savior. Y'shua is the Word spoken of when I say Feast. Y'shua went to the Feasts, the deciples, went to the Feasts, and so should we.
If we do not “go to the Feasts” we will be like the blind or the children in darkness, who will not see when He comes.
Laurel,We should keep ALL the feasts or which ones?
laruel and david …. mabe i did'n make myself clear in my post
if we realize what the word (law) means we can see Pauls point.the word law by it self means (forced compliance) the commandments of God were turned into law. remember how they were given Ex20:20, the bruning, quaking,the smoke asending, and the people were so fear full, they were told not to even touch the Mountain.
but look at what Moses say's when he decended from the mountain (“fear not for the Lord has done this that the fear of Him be before you that you sin not)
so like any Law the element of fear was introduced, all law work's this way, but we are told we have not come to that mountain burnning and quakeing to fear as they did.
so this is the point by forced compliance (law) not flesh will be justified brfore God and its easy to see why because it dosent change our hearts, and it didn't change those Isrealites hearts either because forced compliance makes no one right in there Hearts.
but a new and Living way does and thats when Our Father takes out of us the stoney Hearts and gives new Hearts and thats a new creation that ONLY GOD HIMSELF CAN DO and does it after our sin debt has been paid and Jesus paid that debit.
so then should we then think we should not walk in God's commandments God forbid we keep them through the new natures given us by THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD who is the Father .
peace and blessings to you both.
Yes,
We should keep them all, not as under the old covenant, because that was by the blood of an animal. We keep the Feasts under the new covenant, through Messiah.Celebrate our freedom from sin, through Him. The Lord's supper is supposed to be the bread of His body and the cup of His blood, on the Passover, like He did with His deciples. Also washing the feet of those who are with us.
There is so much to teach or learn about the Feasts. The next one is Trumpets. It is on Sept. 13th at evening.The jewish calendar is accurate this year, but normally it is off because they used mathematical calculations hundreds of years ago, because they wer kicked out of Jerusalem.
YHWH's calendar is based on the barley in abib in Jerusalem, and the first visible sliver of the new moon. In the new testament where it speaks of not letting any man judge us by the new moon or food or drink, it was directed at those who did do the Feasts.
We aren't supposed to eat food offered to idols or blood. But we can eat anything else.
For instance, if I was invited to my cousins house for Easter ham, then I would have to decline.
Laurel didn't the Pharisees and scribes keep the physical law that pointed to Christ?
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus took the Father's Law and made it spiritual the Ten Commandments are more strict now then they were before Christ.
If you wish to keep the feasts that's fine, Rom ch 14. But I don't see if I take all the bread crums out of my house once a year will make me closer to Christ. Isn't it Jesus' sacrifice that cleanses us.
First, the Pharisees had made many laws on top of the Torah, their laws made the true law of no effect.
Their laws made us blind to the true meaning of YHWH's law and how we were to receive them. The law does not cover sin, it is only a guide to keep us in the way.
The Pharisees perceived they did not need Messiah because they felt they were saved by following the law. They taught that good works could over come sin.
Y'shua spent most of His adult life teaching us the purity of the law. He rebuked the Pharisees for placing thier laws above Elohim's laws. The Pharisees put extra laws in place believing in their minds that these extra laws would keep people from ever breaking Elohim's law.
What they were really doing, was saying that Elohim's laws were imperfect and needed more.
These laws made the Sabbath a pain in the butt, for believers, rather than the joy it was intended to be. See?
Quote (Laurel @ July 13 2007,04:44) Yes,
We should keep them all, not as under the old covenant, because that was by the blood of an animal. We keep the Feasts under the new covenant, through Messiah.Celebrate our freedom from sin, through Him. The Lord's supper is supposed to be the bread of His body and the cup of His blood, on the Passover, like He did with His deciples. Also washing the feet of those who are with us.
There is so much to teach or learn about the Feasts. The next one is Trumpets. It is on Sept. 13th at evening.The jewish calendar is accurate this year, but normally it is off because they used mathematical calculations hundreds of years ago, because they wer kicked out of Jerusalem.
YHWH's calendar is based on the barley in abib in Jerusalem, and the first visible sliver of the new moon. In the new testament where it speaks of not letting any man judge us by the new moon or food or drink, it was directed at those who did do the Feasts.
We aren't supposed to eat food offered to idols or blood. But we can eat anything else.
For instance, if I was invited to my cousins house for Easter ham, then I would have to decline.
Laurel,Their is no God but God. If you were to offer food to an Idol and i was hungry I would eat that food faster than you could say the name of the supposed god it is offered up too.
1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.Now if you were with me at the time then I would not eat that food.
1Co 8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1Co 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
1Co 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.But hey you enjoy the feasts days then by all means keep them. God's commandments were written in stone showing that they would never be done away with at least until heaven and earth pass away, Mat. 5:18. The rest of the law was given to Moses to write and placed ON THE SIDE of the ark and NOT INSIDE the ark with the Law that the Father wrote Himself.
IHN&L,
Ken
By participating in the Feasts, the Spirit,shows us a Spiritual meaning for “these things.”
It is something you have to do to understand it.
I could compare it to a water baptisim, or circumcision, which alone mean absolutely nothing. Through the Spirit, they have full meaning.About the food, if you eat in in the company of the ones who offered it, it would be a stumbling block to them, like you were taking part. If you ate it when they were not around even though it was offered to an idol, you yourself know it is nothing, then ok. We can't be a stumbling block, and if I went to Easter dinner with my cousin, then what I am saying is it is ok to worship the pagen diety of fertility. So I will decline, because I know it is wrong. Politically correct is morally wrong.
Quote (Laurel @ July 13 2007,04:59) By participating in the Feasts, the Spirit,shows us a Spiritual meaning for “these things.” It is something you have to do to understand it.
I could compare it to a water baptisim, or circumcision, which alone mean absolutely nothing. Through the Spirit, they have full meaning.
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.Jesus shows the difference of the Old and New covenant.
The Old Covenant was physical but the New covenant is Spiritual. You don't have to physically murder someone to be guilty, under the New Spiritual civenant all you need do is to call your brother a fool and will be in danger of hell.
Quote (Laurel @ July 13 2007,05:04) About the food, if you eat in in the company of the ones who offered it, it would be a stumbling block to them, like you were taking part. If you ate it when they were not around even though it was offered to an idol, you yourself know it is nothing, then ok. We can't be a stumbling block, and if I went to Easter dinner with my cousin, then what I am saying is it is ok to worship the pagen diety of fertility. So I will decline, because I know it is wrong. Politically correct is morally wrong.
Rom 14:15 For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil.
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.Peace Sister
IHN&L,
Ken
Yes, that is exactly what I said.
To prove my point about the Feasts, we need to look into the Word, not just at it.
The fourth commandment says remember the Sabbath, and also that you were once slave in egypt, also to know that Elohim created the heavens and the earth.The Feasts contain Sabbaths. The Feasts remind us that Elohim created the heavens and the earth. The Feasts remind us that we were once slaves to pagen worship, and that we were made free from those days when we crossed over through the water of baptisim of the Spirit into His way.
The Feasts are shadow of good thing yet to come, as well as good things that have already come, and show us His time and seasons that these things are done.Romans 14:15
Your brother will be greived if you eat food offered to idols, because your light will be snuffed out and the path that leads to His way will be darkened.If we remain in the purity of living without sin, we can be a light to a brother who is greived already.
Laurel This is really interesting because we used to keep all the Feasts in the W.W.C.of God. But that was the covenant that God made with Israel like I stated in my previous Post. It is scripture not my Words. If you want to believe some you cant ignore others.
Exodus 34:28 THEN THE LORD SAID TO MOSE 'WRITE THESE WORDS. FOR ACCORDING TO THE TENOR OF THIS WORDS I HAVE MADE A COVENANT WITH YOU(MOSES) AND WITH ISRAEL.
VERSE 28 SO HE WAS THERE WITH THE LORD FORTY DAYS AND FORTHY NIGHTS; HE NEITHER ATE BREAD NOR DRANK WATER. AND HE WROTE ON THE TABLETS THE WORDS OF THE COVENANT THE TEN COMMANDMENT.IT SAYS THAT HE MADE THAT COVENANT WITH ISRAEL, DOES IT NOT? We are Gentiles.
Romans 3:28 therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
Romans 6:14 For Sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under Law but under Grace.
But Paul also is saying in
Romans 7:12 therefore the law is holy and the commandment is holy and just and good.
but in verse 14 He says
For we know the law is spiritual, but I am carnal sold under sin.
verse 15 for what i am doing, I do not understand. For what I will do, that I do not practice: but what I hate that I do.
verse 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.
verse 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it but sin that dwells in me.
verse 18 For I know in me that is in my flesh nothing good dwells:for to will is present with me,but how to perform what is good I do not find.As far as the Sabbath is concerned Paul tells us this.
Romans 14 verse 5. One person esteems one day above another;another esteems everyday alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.Galatians 2:21 i do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.
verse 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law;for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.
verse 24 There for the law our tutor to bring us to Christ, That we might be justified by faith
verse 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under tutor.
verse 26 for you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
verse 18 But if you are led by the Spirit,you are not under the law.Ephesians 2:8 For by Grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God.
verse 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
verse 10 for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared before hand that we should walk in them.
verse 15 having abolished in his flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances so as to create himself one knew man from the two thus making peace.Phililpplans 3:9 and be found in Him not having my own righteousness which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
I believe that the law is spiritual and we are saved by faith through Jesus Christ our Lord.
I have put Gods law in my heart and God has given me his Holy Spirit,a nd therefore I believe I have over come some sins, but we are still in the flesh and if I say I'm without sin I will be a liar. But God wants us to over come. That is what I am striving for to be more Christ like.
In Christian love and Bless You. Mrs IM4TruthQuote (Laurel @ July 13 2007,02:18) Quote (Is 1:18 @ July 12 2007,18:53) Quote (IM4Truth @ July 12 2007,00:55) IS8 I think We do only have one HEAVENLY FATHER WHO IS … (edit l)
Peace Mrs.IM4Truth
Okay….But my assertion still stands.
1. In John 20:28 Thomas declared Yeshua to be his Lord and God.
2. A Jewish monotheist has only ONE personal God, namely YHWH.
3. It's therefore implausible to think that Thomas had acquired another God.
4. So Yeshua must be true God.
Which of the above points is incorrect in your opinion?
Blessings
Your questions themselves are misleading, so you are saying to choose the lesser of two evils here. Question 3 is an oxymoron Biblically speaking. Implausable is not a word that can be used to describe anything in Scripture, unless your describing Satan. The word plausable alone means, seems like or appears to be. Scripture does not deal in the GREY.Sorry. Just pointing out some bad English usage.
American Heritage Dictionary – im·plau·si·ble
adj.
Difficult to believe; not plausible.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/implausibleI thought my usage of english was fine……
Hi ,
Here is the trinity circular use of LOGIC in all it's glory“1. In John 20:28 Thomas declared Yeshua to be his Lord and God.
2. A Jewish monotheist has only ONE personal God, namely YHWH.
3. It's therefore implausible to think that Thomas had acquired another God.
4. So Yeshua must be true God.”
So simplistic.
So false.
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