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Hi,
The above verse is from Rom9
Gal 4
” 1Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;2But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.”
We come into the inheritance through Israel.
Eph 1
” 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,”
Jesus, a Jewish man, perfectly fulfilled the Law and we are adopted through him .
nick and kenrch….If Jesus was any different than us, then he is not the same as us . and how could we expect the same fate as him, and how would it behove him to be made like his brothern. SATAN does not want us to realize there is no difference be us and Jesus, thats why he created the idology of Jesus being very God Himself, he know we all know we aren't a God, so if he could turn our image of Jesus to that of a God, he know we would not then believe that what God did for Jesus he would do for us because we would think we really weren't the same and this would discourage us.
and we would then lack the faith he had in God the Father. Jesus was always incouraging us tellin us we could even move mountans if we had even a small faith in God.
God the Father want us to know Jesus is indeed the first Born of Many brethern and as the he holds the position of the first born but when it comes to our satnding we are on an equal level because the Father is no respector of person and loves us all and being born of his spirit we are all his son's and daughter's because his seed abides in us and Now we are the Childern of God and when he (Jesus) comes we will be (JUST) like Him in every way no difference at all.and the reason i believe God cannot recreate his self is, that would require an eternal existance and how could that be if he then created it into being.it would not have been eternal then like Him. thats why i think is impossible to create another True God.
it is also impossible for God to lie too.
this is what i believe thats all……peace to you both..geneHi Gene,
Christ is begotten of God-a true Son.[Ps2]
We are adopted in having sold our rights and having no place in God's family.
We were paid out and went to a foreign land serving foreign gods and wasting our inheritance.Hi ,
Has anyone heard the voice of a trinity God?
W would say so.
He would say this verse is the trinity speaking.Isaiah 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 10 2007,12:38) nick and kenrch….If Jesus was any different than us, then he is not the same as us . and how could we expect the same fate as him, and how would it behove him to be made like his brothern. SATAN does not want us to realize there is no difference be us and Jesus, thats why he created the idology of Jesus being very God Himself, he know we all know we aren't a God, so if he could turn our image of Jesus to that of a God, he know we would not then believe that what God did for Jesus he would do for us because we would think we really weren't the same and this would discourage us.
and we would then lack the faith he had in God the Father. Jesus was always incouraging us tellin us we could even move mountans if we had even a small faith in God.
God the Father want us to know Jesus is indeed the first Born of Many brethern and as the he holds the position of the first born but when it comes to our satnding we are on an equal level because the Father is no respector of person and loves us all and being born of his spirit we are all his son's and daughter's because his seed abides in us and Now we are the Childern of God and when he (Jesus) comes we will be (JUST) like Him in every way no difference at all.and the reason i believe God cannot recreate his self is, that would require an eternal existance and how could that be if he then created it into being.it would not have been eternal then like Him. thats why i think is impossible to create another True God.
it is also impossible for God to lie too.
this is what i believe thats all……peace to you both..gene
Gene,Quote God the Father want us to know Jesus is indeed the first Born of Many brethern and as the he holds the position of the first born but when it comes to our satnding we are on an equal level because the Father is no respector of person and loves us all and being born of his spirit we are all his son's and daughter's because his seed abides in us and Now we are the Childern of God and when he (Jesus) comes we will be (JUST) like Him in every way no difference at all. How can His seed abide in us if we are adopted? If I adopt a son he was not born of my seed He is adopted.
As I said brother scripture “seems” to agree with you and I'm not saying you are wrong. But as Nick pointed out nowhere is Jesus mentioned as being adopted and we are His brethren although we are not complete yet. We have yet to have a body. As you say His seed abides in us. So having His seed how can we at FULL birth (that is the redemption of our body) be adopted sons when we are spiritually born of His seed? It's not that I just don't want to believe you but it seems something is missing. Is Jesus the Son of God OR just a adopted Son of man. Scripture says Jesus made one man of the two that is His flesh was ruled by Jehovah. We being under the curse this would not be possible our flesh always is against our “new” spirit. But when we at the resurrection receive the samd body as Christ will we not then be complete?
IHN&L,
Ken
kenrch…> You are right, if you adopt a son he is not the product of your seed, on a human level. But God is not a human and he can infuse us with holy spirit and when he does we are recieving His seed into us and its the same seed He infused Jesus with when He begot him and He has begot us as well with that same seed, which is holy spirit this makes us the chilern of God. If the spirit of Him who rasied Christ from the dead dwell in you (IT) will (ALSO) quicken or bring to life our mortal bodies also. There is no difference between us and Jesus we all are made to drink of the same sprit and thereby we all are son's and daughter's of our Father who alone Is the Almighty God. and another way we can see this same connection is to realize how Jesus is connected to the Father. remember when Jesus said come all you who are heavy laden take of my yoke for I am lowly or meek and my burdon is light. Jesus tells us to put on the yoke he has on him it's the same yoke and when this happens we are then yoked to God The Father and He as the lead, like a lead oxen would carry the balk of the load for us , and as he did Jesus. It's all the same with Jesus as with Us no difference. I believe the reason God wants us to know we are adopted is so we don't ever get the idea we are a true God and i think this is true with Jesus also. just the way i see it brother……….gene
Nick…> I don't ever recall seeing that in the bible it's just what i deduce when comparing our equality with our brother Jesus< I see him though the eyes of equality HE IS MY BROTHER THE KING, and i have great love and respect for him, not to mention he died for my many sins.we have the
same Father who we both love and respect.there is no difference between me and my brother in the family.
again this just my take…peace to you …geneNick …> what you said is right but the question is, is he first born exactly like we are or not and I believe He is and the exact same process of this spritual birth is as ours.
again it just my take thats all, it makes me fell closer to him and the Father that's all. i am not promoting any doctrines.peace to you Nick….gene
Hi 4truth. The Restored Church of God, picked up where Armstrong left off, I guess he died or something. I don't know much else, other than RCG does not teach trinity, they teach the Feasts, and the Sabbath. They also got correct 3days and 3 nights in the tomb. For the most part I agree with these things, things I already knew before I found their web site. One of their people wrote an article about millions of years for creation which I know is false. So there are probably other things I do not agree with I just haven't spent much time reading there since I read about evolution/creation.
I have no idea what you believe and where you learned it. I just know I am supposed to believe in the Messiah, follow Him and obey the Torah. I am also supposed to teach other what I know. I am for the most part not a “church” goer. The things I learn come from the Book, then I look to see what other people see, because I know the Spirit is guiding me. That is my ticket to heaven. I know the Spirit must be working in many other people out there, so I come to places like this to find my long lost sisters and brothers. You can do whatever your heart tells you. As for me and my children, my mom, we all study separately and we all come up with the same conclusions, time and time again. BTW my children are adults and live in other states and countries. I have learned so much I can't explain it all in detail even if I were to write constantly for months. Every time I open the Bible I learn more.
I can no longer celebrate man-made things or follow man-made doctrine. I know too much. Seems to me you were told to do something you did not understand. When I hear things I don't understand I read Scripture for hours and days untill I learn the things I am able to grasp. Seems to me like you fell back into the greasy grace trap or the sloppy agape doctrine where everything is free and easy and if it feels good do it.
I found peace and hope, truth and meaning in following the Feasts and Sabbath. I would have never learned the meaning of the Feasts except they are part of the Sabbath command. That is why I know they are everlasting, also that Messiah and His deciples followed them.
Do you realize that if the deciples had not followed the Feasts, they would not have been at the temple on the Feast of Weeks, and 3,000 people would not have received the Spirit that day including His deciples? This was the beginning of what Christains call the birth of the church!
I could have many reasons to worry all the time and the least of my problems is having a son in the Iraq war. People are amazed at how hopefull and happy I am. It's not a secret, I know all things are for a divine purpose. I'ts hard times that bring me closer to Him. I am never alone, even though I live alone, and I really feel close to my children.
Peace out.laurel…> your situation is the same almost as mine I have been in some churches in the past, but the more i studied God's word the more i could see the errors in their teachings. Jesus said know you not you shall all be taught by God, and again brothern you have no need of a teacher for the Spirit it self will teach you all thing. by reading and the guidence of God's spirit we grow in grace and knowledge.
peace to you laurel… and i hope your son makes it back safe.gene
Gene, Thank you. He has been there for a year now and should be home this month or next. They didn't offer Sabbath service there, but a Sabbath study after someone heard Larry needed one. He was baptised there in the dessert, full immersion, in a big tub they built out of wood and tarps to hold the water. He was the first one baptized at that base and I think the only one because they shut down that one recently. I think Elohim Himself smiled that day. His Spiritual son inthe dessert full of Islam worshipers. The Islam religion has the exact commandments as the Bible all except they changed the Sabbath to Friday. I just learned that about a week ago. Hey Gene, thanks for being here.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 10 2007,08:06) kejonn You say…
Quote Quite simply. The Logos of God, the Expression of God, the Word of God emanates from God and carries out the process of creation. Are you supposing that the Logos was somehow apart from God as Yeshua is today? Where do you getthat idea? “The Word was with God”. Not in God!
People see “with” and automatically think “along side of”. Go searching for the definition of the “with” and you'll find out it has 27 different meanings!“In the beginning was the Word” – in what beginning? The beginning of the earth we see in Genesis 1? Must be since God has no beginning.
“and the Word was with God” – no, wait, “with God”. One of the meanings of “with” is “at the same time as”, which fits in rather well with the 1.1a to clarify just when the Word existed: the Word existed with — at the same time as — God. The Word has always been with God. This helps clear up the confusion of 1:1b with 1:1c, and clarifies the time of existence between 1:1a and 1:1b. The verse falls together to harmonize itself.
“and the Word was God” – nobody has ever seen God. He is spirit, He is invisible. The OT people knew God by His creation, and by His Word. So to them, this was how they came to know God. Go search for the phrase “word of the LORD” on biblegateway.com and you'll come up with a ton of verses. The “word of the LORD” was the way that they OT people came to personify God.
Why do you think people would make graven images? Because people are visual creatures, we need something to see, to behold, to help us focus on what is not seen. Brings new meaning to Yeshua's words to Thomas' exclamation in John 20:29 – Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”
Yeshua changed that. “And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us”. Always before, the “word of the Lord” was somewhat impersonal, without any discernible substance. It existed as a means to communicate with God's people and reveal Himself to them. Now He revealed Himself to the earth in the ultimate form: the form of His only begotten Son. A Man who people could speak with, could learn from, could come to love more than the OT “word of the LORD” which had no personality of its own. Through this man, the only begotten Son of God, the people of the earth could truly know God in the ultimate way.
And just as the OT “word of the Lord”, this Word came forth to strictly do his Father's Will. This Word came forth to perform God's crowning and ultimate work: the perfect salvation of Man, the reversing of the curse of Adam. The time that God and Man shared in close companionship (Genesis 3:8) could be restored once more. Man could once more be all of what God intended for them: to be His children, and to reign with Him forever in the New Heaven and New Earth.
WJ, do you know anyone on this board personally? Perhaps, but how have you come to know us? Through our words. To you, we are invisible, as you are to me. I can try to imagine what you look like, and I've come to recognize your posts by your chosen avatar, but that is not you. The people of the OT came to know God through His Word, and through His creation, which was carried out by His Word.
But our words here do us little justice. You could start a phone or Internet relationship with someone and you could come to know them that way, but you'd never really come to know them until you met them face-to-face.
Since no one can see God and live, He sent an image of Himself. The Word had finally come in a personal way, so that Man could truly come to know God. The Word became flesh. Is it any wonder that Thomas finally said “My Lord and My God!”?
Yeshua is not God, but He is the way that Man can come to personally know God, the God who is invisible, the spirit God. Yeshua is God's expression, His revelation, in the form of Man.
Quote So what are you saying here? Was Jesus a person before his coming in the flesh or not?
There is no strong evidence for that. He was the Word, he was the wisdom (perhaps). Point me to a verse that says Yeshua as the Word had substance, was a person. The Word existed to carry out God's continuing revelation to Man.Quote Either way, if “Through” Yahshua (what ever he was as far as you say 
) all things were made and without “Him” nothing was made that was made, then that is “not alone”, “by myself” , and “none beside me”.Now if you dont believe Yahshua pre-existed as a person, then you have a boat load of scriptures that you have denied saying he did.
Never said Yeshua existed as a person. Perhaps you read that into my responses. Sorry if I was not clear.In fact, by using the pronoun “he” when speaking of the Word, we attribute personage to the Word and I don't think that is accurate. The translators did it as well, but there is really no justification other than they were thinking about Yeshua as he is now when they did it. So it was natural to call the Word “him”. The Greek word used is “autos” which can mean “himself, herself, themselves, itself” or “he, she, it”.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 10 2007,08:36) kejonn You say…
Quote
All things come from God. The Logos came from God. Yes, Logos was God because Logos came from God. What comes from God is of God.“Logos was God” “Logos is of God”? So what was God is not God but of God?
So what came from God was God? But now is of God?
WJ,Much of my understanding of the Logos, the Word, is becoming clearer to me. I'm beginning to believe that perhaps God divinely guided the translators to use “Word” as the English rendering of Logos. It fits like a glove with “word of the LORD” in the OT an opens up a whole new realm of understanding. See my previous response to you.
It also now helps to clarify some other verses which I will be studying. One that comes to mind is
John 17:5 – “Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
What exactly was that glory? Some will say the glory of being God, but knowing more about the Word makes this verse clearer IMO. I believe this glory to be the instrument of creation. Before the world was, the Word existed with God, and it was then used to create the heavens and earth.
John 14:2-3 – “In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.
I beleive that Yeshua is saying here that he will once again be the instrument of creation. The creation of the New Heaven and New Earth. Once again, the Word as Yeshua receives glory as God's vessel, His instrument of creation.
And he again has the glory of being the means by which Man can know God.
John 14:6 – Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
Just as the “word of the LORD” in the OT came to men so that they could know God, Yeshua is the means forevermore as the way to the Father.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. This verse tells us that Jesus is the Word.So the Word who is Jesus is God.
See what John the Baptist had to say about The Word, from the same chapter.
Joh 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
I will show you from the JW's NWT, the cult's own bible.
“Listen! Someone is calling out in the wilderness: 'Clear up the way of Jehovah, You people! Make the highway for our God through the desert plain straight,' ” Isaiah 40:3
Again, in the New World Translation (NWT) it says, speaking of John the Baptist's fulfillment of Isaiah 40:3
“This, in fact, is the one spoken of through Isaiah the prophet in the words: Listen Someone is crying out in the wilderness, 'Prepare the way of Jehovah, You people! Make his roads straight.'” (Matt 3:3)
So who did John the Baptist prepare the way for? Obviously it was Jesus. So Jesus who is the Word, is Jehovah , according to the cult's own bible.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,..
The Word is Jesus our God.
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;In case you missed it
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto
the supper of the great God;Jesus the Lamb of God and the Word of God, is the Great God
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
kejonn,
I really enjoy your posts and explanations of the Word. You come across to me by your word as patient, persistant kind and caring. Now if I can believe your word, which I have no reason not to, I see you are a man of inner strength. These attributes can not come from oneself, His Spirit surely is upon you. Keep your heart, mind and soul in His Word and you will grow in grace, and will not slip of the path that leads us in the way.Cult,
One thing we have that you don't is that we worship the creator, not creation. We who do this and believe Y'shua is the Messiah and the Son of Elohim, who came in the flesh, honor the Messiah as our lord, our Master, and our Savior. We can because we know He is the way, the truth, and the life. We are more for it, we honor our heavenly Father by recognizing His gift, His Son. That is a kind of love you have not felt. Not possible from your perspective. You should come over here and see some time. If I'm a liar go back there.
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