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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 10 2007,03:34) kenrch……..> all you said is right i see it that way to with maybe one little exception, where you said Jesus is God because God was in Him, I believe while God was truly in him or us for that matter never makes us a true God in the sense of the word. but it is the true God who was in Jesus, you are right on that and while the true God can impower us to Image Him, or reflect Him it never Makes us Him. were on the same page….peace brother….gene
Ok, I'm not saying Jesus IS the Father. I'm saying Jesus Is the Father's Son. The Father who IS GOD has a Son who is NOT a God?If the Father is Smith is not His Son a Smith also? This is the Father's will to have born children who are part of Him. Being His Son (Part of Him) is not Jesus a God also?
And we who are born again of the very Spirit of the Father are we not (“to become, after our resurrection”) as Jesus being His brethren? The FAMILY of God.
Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
What is His purpose? Is it not being a member of God's family?
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Jesus is number one being born without sin was able to make His flesh one with the Spirit. When resurrected we will have a body according to our spirit that we gave to the Father.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
Once we become a mature man to the measure of Christ, which was having the Spirit without measure, the fullness of Christ.
Gen 3:5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
Here the great lie “you will become like God”
The Father does HIS WILL. Satan said once you do your will you become like God doing your own will. But we His children do not do OUR will but the Father's will as Jesus said not my will but Your will be done.
So doing the will of the Father we are His children. We will not do our will but we agree to do His will. If the Son of man did His will Their would have never been a SACRIFICE. So it is with us we do HIS will not our own.
IHN&L,
Ken
Very well said grasshopper. You are in! We do not worship images, we worship YHWH. Through the Son, we bring honor to the Father when we recognize His Son and honor to the Son when we recognize His Father, our Father.
We do not worship idols or crosses or the dead on the cross. We worship a living Elohim.You are both ready to study YHWH's Feasts and how Messiah has fulfilled some, and will fulfill the rest. That shold be in a catagory of itself.
Ken! Did you ever belong to the World Wide Church of God? Before the split that is. Now they believe what most Churches believe including the trinity doctrine etc. Mr. Armstrong called it the Family of God and since God is a title (that is my belief) it goes along with being a Family. We left that Church in 1995-1996. We don't belong to any Church right now! Peace Mrs.IM4Truth
RCG has taken over for Armstrong, they have a website. Most of what they teach I agree with, except….
There is a topic on creation that is false. I do not know how that crept into the mind of the author of it, but that is why Scripture teaches that even the elect will fall away. Our strength is His Word, through faith and belief in Messiah and in being obedient to the perfect law of YHWH.We do these things and we will stay on the right track.
Laurel! while I was writing Ken's Post you posted yours before mine, otherwise I would have included that when we belonged to the WWC we kept all the Holy Days. But that Covenant including all Feast's was made with Israel, and we are not bound under that Law. We are under the new Covenant of Love. Christ fulfilled all by dying on the cross for us. There are lots of scriptures that support that.
EXODUS 34:27-28
DEUT.4:13
GALATION 4 READ ALL
GALATION 5:1-4
there are more on grace but these come to my mind right now. How many scriptures does one need to be convinced? Mrs.IM4TruthLaurel! you believe in the trinity? I know who took over, because we visited our old friends there. They too believe in the trinity , we were there when all the changes took place. Hyperstacy is not my belief. Mrs,IM4Truth P.S. You type quick
Quote (kenrch @ July 10 2007,04:40) kenrch If the Father is Smith is not His Son a Smith also? This is the Father's will to have born children who are part of Him. Being His Son (Part of Him) is not Jesus God also?
True.kejonn
You say…
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Quite simply. The Logos of God, the Expression of God, the Word of God emanates from God and carries out the process of creation. Are you supposing that the Logos was somehow apart from God as Yeshua is today? Where do you get that idea?“The Word was with God”. Not in God!
You say…
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God was the source of all creation, His Word went forth and carried out the act of creation. I think people struggle with this idea because they want to see Yeshua pre-existing just as he is today. Yet we have no indication of that being the case.
So what are you saying here? Was Jesus a person before his coming in the flesh or not?Yoiu say…
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The Logos carried out. The Logos came from God. Please do not confuse who Yeshua was with who Yeshua is.
Here you seem to say Yahshua existed as a person.
Either way, if “Through” Yahshua (what ever he was as far as you say
) all things were made and without “Him” nothing was made that was made, then that is “not alone”, “by myself” , and “none beside me”.Now if you dont believe Yahshua pre-existed as a person, then you have a boat load of scriptures that you have denied saying he did.
kejonn
You say…
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All things come from God. The Logos came from God. Yes, Logos was God because Logos came from God. What comes from God is of God.“Logos was God” “Logos is of God”? So what was God is not God but of God?
So what came from God was God? But now is of God?
kenrch….> first let me say i believe it's impossible for God to recreate himself. we are childern of His by way of adoption and Jesus is also, remember where it say's I (GOD) will be unto him as a Father and he shall be unto Me as a son.
the analogy of full decendency of God would mean exactily the same as God in every detail and power and authority but that was not the case of Jesus or us we are adopted childern and as a result we all including Jesus share in the inheritance of our Father who is the (ONLY TRUE) GOD. we know there are many “so called god's” but unto us there is ONLY ONE GOD and one medeator between GOD and man the Man Jesus Christ.the bigest lie ever told is the lie that turns Jesus into very God himself.
these are relationships through adoption, why? because God cannot recreate Himself. but He can indwell us and does through holy spirit, He yokes with us just like He did Jesus, but again because He does this does not make Jesus or us a God, it does make His childern and because we are He sends forth his Spirit into our hearts crying abba Father, one God in all and through all.
we all need to see Jesus exaclty as ourselves in every way and to know what the Father did in Jesus He can do in us. To me thats the good news my Father can do in me Just what he did in Jesus, He can raise me from the dead both physically and spiritually He can by His spirit inpower me to overcome my sins just like He Jesus my brother the King.
blessings to you gene.
Quote (IM4Truth @ July 10 2007,05:25) Ken! Did you ever belong to the World Wide Church of God? Before the split that is. Now they believe what most Churches believe including the trinity doctrine etc. Mr. Armstrong called it the Family of God and since God is a title (that is my belief) it goes along with being a Family. We left that Church in 1995-1996. We don't belong to any Church right now! Peace Mrs.IM4Truth
I did study with the WWCG but when it came to all those feasts days I believe Jesus fulfilled. Take for instance the feasts of unleaven bread. My sins are forgiven I don't need to “be sure to get every bread crum out of my house”.Boy when the old man died the place just fell apart! I enjoyed watching Herbert W on TV way back then. Went to His sons place for awhile but soon left. Now how many spin-offs are their about 10!
So do you and MR IM4Truth keep the seventh day Sabbath?
Their is a separation of the law you know? Deu. 10:1-5; 31:9 & 26.
Read the Ten Commandment thread if it's still there.
You say love fulfilled all those laws does that include the Ten God wrote?
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
IHN&L,
Ken
kejonn….> you are right it was the intellengence that was with God and WAS God and this intellegence was indewlling Jesus and All who have it in them this is the God who works in us to will and do his good Pleasure just as He did Jesus our brother the king.
hold to what you have don't fall into word games.
not to worry God will keep you from it. peace…Gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 10 2007,09:08) kenrch….> first let me say i believe it's impossible for God to recreate himself. we are childern of His by way of adoption and Jesus is also, remember where it say's I (GOD) will be unto him as a Father and he shall be unto Me as a son.
the analogy of full decendency of God would mean exactily the same as God in every detail and power and authority but that was not the case of Jesus or us we are adopted childern and as a result we all including Jesus share in the inheritance of our Father who is the (ONLY TRUE) GOD. we know there are many “so called god's” but unto us there is ONLY ONE GOD and one medeator between GOD and man the Man Jesus Christ.the bigest lie ever told is the lie that turns Jesus into very God himself.
these are relationships through adoption, why? because God cannot recreate Himself. but He can indwell us and does through holy spirit, He yokes with us just like He did Jesus, but again because He does this does not make Jesus or us a God, it does make His childern and because we are He sends forth his Spirit into our hearts crying abba Father, one God in all and through all.
we all need to see Jesus exaclty as ourselves in every way and to know what the Father did in Jesus He can do in us. To me thats the good news my Father can do in me Just what he did in Jesus, He can raise me from the dead both physically and spiritually He can by His spirit inpower me to overcome my sins just like He Jesus my brother the King.
blessings to you gene.
It seems that you are correct Gene!Rom 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”
Rom 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Rom 9:4 They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises.
Gal 4:5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
So how are we different than the angels? They don't have the Spirit of God? Are they just robots?
IHN&L,
Ken
nick…I believe so, the reason is because it's impossible for God to recreate Himself, thats why He said in the Image of God He created them, an image is a reflection of something but never the exact same thing and so it is with us and Jesus our brother we are made to image God but never be Him. And with His holy spirit in us and Jesus our elder brother this is all possible. Never seperate you likeness from Jesus our first born brother.
blessings…geneQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 10 2007,10:15) Hi CO,
Jesus is never said to be adopted.
He is the firstborn son.
Very true Nick!God cannot? That doesn't set well with me. Could it be that we are adopted because we go through the Son?
Or are we adopted now until we are resurrected? That which is born of flesh is flesh that which is born of Spirit is Spirit.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father
Hi kenrch,
Israel is of the adoption.
1I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,2That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
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