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Strongs Concordance:G2531
καθώς
kathōs
kath-oce'
From G2596 and G5613; just (or inasmuch) as, that: – according to, (according, even) as, how, when.Can you give me a specific reason why “as well as” is the best rendering of the word kathōs?
Why do you think “as well as” means something other than 'in the same manner'?
Quote (Is 1:18 @ July 07 2007,22:24) Yeshua is our brother, yes. He is also our Lord and we are to honour Him even as we honour the Father (John 5:23). Incidentally t8, we are also described in scripture as the bride of Christ. By your reasoning we are all female…..
We will never be God's brother. You know that too deep down.Are we female? Well that is physical thinking of course, but spiritually thinking, just as a bride marries the bridegroom, we will marry Christ. Yes in that sense we are likened to a female. Christ is the husband of the Church and he is our head.
Of course male and female are physical traits and scripture is talking about spiritual things.
Likewise we don't literally circumcise our hearts.
So my reasoning is that we are not all female. Rather it was your reasoning of my reasoning that says that.
not3in1…> you are absolutly right there is but one God and one medeator between God and Man the (MAN) Jesus the anointed, or christ.
Jesus said God is Spirit and he can indwell us just as he does Jesus if he choses to.
if we understand that the spirits in Jesus' body were both his and the Father's , then we can understand the two wills at work in him the Fathers and His, this explains Jesus agoney and battle in the garden pryor to his, death.
it was not Almighty God who died on that cross or stake it was a 100 percent human being.
God is spirit and can indwell us just as he did Jesus, dosen't it is God who works in us to will and do his good pleasure.
have a good trip…..Gene
isa1:18.and wj.. you both are saying that the scriptures i quoted in Isaiah can not be taken literaly who could i expect any other trinitarian explanation. you flip flop from literal to unliteral is tipical. you go from the obvious unliteral subject matter like Jesus being a literal lamb or a shepard or a loaf of bread ect, to distract from scriptures that are literal , this avoids any real dialog you triniterians remind me of a clock flip floping around but never dealing head on with solid (LITERAL) text.
by shuffeling around it turns attention off from pionts being brought up and twests sound teachings, always jocking around for an advantage, but never dealing with the simple truth.
the scriptures i quoted are literal and are not nedafors or analogys, but you can twest anyway you chose, God will Judge it, not me…Gene
Quote (Is 1:18 @ July 07 2007,22:24) Yeshua is our brother, yes. He is also our Lord and we are to honour Him even as we honour the Father (John 5:23). Incidentally t8, we are also described in scripture as the bride of Christ. By your reasoning we are all female…..
Is it that hard to admit that Jesus is God's son?He is God's son is he not?
t8..> yes he is God's son but being a son of God does not seperate his likeness form us. John plainlysay's NOW we are the son's of God, Jesus was certainly a unique son there is no question about that, but look what God did with a man just like you and me, he can also do that with you and me their is ONLY ONE GOD, and ONE MEDEATOR between GOD and Man the (MAN) Jesus Christ
and we are told to let this mind that was in Christ (the annoited) Jesus be in you (see no difference) and it will quicken or bring to life your mortal body also, see no difference.
I look at it like this, we are in this hugh family which has ONE FATHER and he is GOD, and he has many childern, and His first born Son is Jesus our brother and like any old Hebrew family of old the First born not had a bouble portion if the inheirittance but when the father was absent he carried the full authority of the father, but though he had the authority given him by the father he still was not the Father himself.
that the way i see it. thanks t8 i read you story about comming out of the false teachings and my story is about the same Peace to you ….Gene
Quote (t8 @ July 07 2007,23:32) Quote (Is 1:18 @ July 07 2007,22:24) Yeshua is our brother, yes. He is also our Lord and we are to honour Him even as we honour the Father (John 5:23). Incidentally t8, we are also described in scripture as the bride of Christ. By your reasoning we are all female…..
We will never be God's brother. You know that too deep down.Are we female? Well that is physical thinking of course, but spiritually thinking, just as a bride marries the bridegroom, we will marry Christ. Yes in that sense we are likened to a female. Christ is the husband of the Church and he is our head.
Of course male and female are physical traits and scripture is talking about spiritual things.
Likewise we don't literally circumcise our hearts.
So my reasoning is that we are not all female. Rather it was your reasoning of my reasoning that says that.
Hi Isaiah 1:18:We the church are not all female but we are the weaker vessel in that we all have sinned, and Jesus as our husband gave his life for us.
Quote Ephesians 5:22
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
5:25
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,God Bless
Hello all,
Why is this body of Christ, the Church, called the Bride of Christ? My first response before we go farther is if we are the Bride of Christ, and Christ is God, are we not then the Bride of God? No, that is not scriptural and just another indication that belief that Jesus is God falls short. But we'll leave that aspect alone.
Who were the first man and wife? Adam and Eve. Both human. The simplest answer then is that we are the Bride of Christ because of our shared humanity. That is why we are not the Bride of God. It is also the reason that we are allowed access to the Throne of God, and why Jesus said (John 14:6) “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”
Quote (942767 @ July 08 2007,02:52) Quote (t8 @ July 07 2007,23:32) Quote (Is 1:18 @ July 07 2007,22:24) Yeshua is our brother, yes. He is also our Lord and we are to honour Him even as we honour the Father (John 5:23). Incidentally t8, we are also described in scripture as the bride of Christ. By your reasoning we are all female…..
We will never be God's brother. You know that too deep down.Are we female? Well that is physical thinking of course, but spiritually thinking, just as a bride marries the bridegroom, we will marry Christ. Yes in that sense we are likened to a female. Christ is the husband of the Church and he is our head.
Of course male and female are physical traits and scripture is talking about spiritual things.
Likewise we don't literally circumcise our hearts.
So my reasoning is that we are not all female. Rather it was your reasoning of my reasoning that says that.
Hi Isaiah 1:18:We the church are not all female but we are the weaker vessel in that we all have sinned, and Jesus as our husband gave his life for us.
Quote Ephesians 5:22
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
5:25
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,God Bless
Hello!LOL!!!
Can someone tell me how we are going to marry Jesus and not be breaking the first and second commandments if he is not God!
God is a jealous God!
isa1:18 > no i don't have to contrive anything, the Jewish scribes did and excellent in the copying texts as we all know, so the old testament is over all quite acqurite, it the new testement translators who changed the orignal texts as any true critual scholar will attest infact one textual scholar listed over 20,000 errors he found and hundreds of scholars found errors. i myself have personaly found many errors like, using defenit articles , captializations where they shouldn't be, and complete sentences and paragraphs that are not in the original texts. in my studies the old testement far exceeds the new when it comes to transliteration. and you must keep in mind all new testament translators were of the trinitarian Idology, and many places they forced the text. you don't have to take my word for that ask any true unbiased textual scholar.
GeneQuote (kejonn @ July 08 2007,03:07) Hello all, Why is this body of Christ, the Church, called the Bride of Christ? My first response before we go farther is if we are the Bride of Christ, and Christ is God, are we not then the Bride of God? No, that is not scriptural and just another indication that belief that Jesus is God falls short. But we'll leave that aspect alone.
Who were the first man and wife? Adam and Eve. Both human. The simplest answer then is that we are the Bride of Christ because of our shared humanity. That is why we are not the Bride of God. It is also the reason that we are allowed access to the Throne of God, and why Jesus said (John 14:6) “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”
KIsa 54:5
For thy Maker is *thine husband*; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 08 2007,03:09) isa1:18 > no i don't have to contrive anything, the Jewish scribes did and excellent in the copying texts as we all know, so the old testament is over all quite acqurite, it the new testement translators who changed the orignal texts as any true critual scholar will attest infact one textual scholar listed over 20,000 errors he found and hundreds of scholars found errors. i myself have personaly found many errors like, using defenit articles , captializations where they shouldn't be, and complete sentences and paragraphs that are not in the original texts. in my studies the old testement far exceeds the new when it comes to transliteration. and you must keep in mind all new testament translators were of the trinitarian Idology, and many places they forced the text. you don't have to take my word for that ask any true unbiased textual scholar.
Gene
GBSo you dont have a reliable source for you theology New Covenant wise?
So you think what Is 1:18 said is untrue…
Quote It is solid. There is barely any variation in the way it is rendered in 17 English translations from BGB, if there was some syntactical ambiguities I dare say there would exist a significant amout of variation. I believe that is very sound validation that it is “solid in its translation”. You have yet to provide any proof that the translators of the “Jewish Publication Society's translation of the Masoretic Text” have handled the Hebrews more competently that the hundreds that were responsible for producing the seventeen English versions I cited above, consequently you are using a circular argument here.
I gather by this then you put your theology and interpretation of the scriptures above the over 600 scholars that you say with no proof that they conspired to mistranslate the original text?
To all! Why do you go from one subject to the other without answering others Question. You take certain scriptures apart which is not necessary when you know who God the Father is and God the Son and the Holy spirit combines them and us to them. You are confusing to me what you believing, if you are a Trinitarian or not. Why are you doing that? Mrs. IM4Truth
wj >> FIRST of all i never said any conspired to do any thing. what i said was modern textual scholars have found many mistranslated verses . You don't have to be smart to know that jusr read any bible and see the textual margins explaning all the misstranslations. so it seams you 600 hundred scholars can't seam to agree on hardly anything espically if they have a trinitarian brain wash job like you seam to have. Gene
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2007,03:08) Quote (942767 @ July 08 2007,02:52) Quote (t8 @ July 07 2007,23:32) Quote (Is 1:18 @ July 07 2007,22:24) Yeshua is our brother, yes. He is also our Lord and we are to honour Him even as we honour the Father (John 5:23). Incidentally t8, we are also described in scripture as the bride of Christ. By your reasoning we are all female…..
We will never be God's brother. You know that too deep down.Are we female? Well that is physical thinking of course, but spiritually thinking, just as a bride marries the bridegroom, we will marry Christ. Yes in that sense we are likened to a female. Christ is the husband of the Church and he is our head.
Of course male and female are physical traits and scripture is talking about spiritual things.
Likewise we don't literally circumcise our hearts.
So my reasoning is that we are not all female. Rather it was your reasoning of my reasoning that says that.
Hi Isaiah 1:18:We the church are not all female but we are the weaker vessel in that we all have sinned, and Jesus as our husband gave his life for us.
Quote Ephesians 5:22
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
5:25
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,God Bless
Hello!LOL!!!
Can someone tell me how we are going to marry Jesus and not be breaking the first and second commandments if he is not God!
God is a jealous God!
Hi WJ:You can laugh out loud or any way that you want to laugh, but Jesus is not God in the sense that you say. He is God's son and His Christ. We as born again believers are striving to obey the Word of God. Jesus is not the source of the Word of God. We are subjected to God through him.
Quote 1 Co. 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and THE HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD.Quote 2 Corinthians 11
11:1
Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.God Bless
Quote (942767 @ July 08 2007,03:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2007,03:08) Quote (942767 @ July 08 2007,02:52) Quote (t8 @ July 07 2007,23:32) Quote (Is 1:18 @ July 07 2007,22:24) Yeshua is our brother, yes. He is also our Lord and we are to honour Him even as we honour the Father (John 5:23). Incidentally t8, we are also described in scripture as the bride of Christ. By your reasoning we are all female…..
We will never be God's brother. You know that too deep down.Are we female? Well that is physical thinking of course, but spiritually thinking, just as a bride marries the bridegroom, we will marry Christ. Yes in that sense we are likened to a female. Christ is the husband of the Church and he is our head.
Of course male and female are physical traits and scripture is talking about spiritual things.
Likewise we don't literally circumcise our hearts.
So my reasoning is that we are not all female. Rather it was your reasoning of my reasoning that says that.
Hi Isaiah 1:18:We the church are not all female but we are the weaker vessel in that we all have sinned, and Jesus as our husband gave his life for us.
Quote Ephesians 5:22
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
5:25
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,God Bless
Hello!LOL!!!
Can someone tell me how we are going to marry Jesus and not be breaking the first and second commandments if he is not God!
God is a jealous God!
Hi WJ:You can laugh out loud or any way that you want to laugh, but Jesus is not God in the sense that you say. He is God's son and His Christ. We as born again believers are striving to obey the Word of God. Jesus is not the source of the Word of God. We are subjected to God through him.
Quote 1 Co. 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and THE HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD.Quote 2 Corinthians 11
11:1
Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.God Bless
94You say…
Quote
You can laugh out loud or any way that you want to laugh, but Jesus is not God in the sense that you say.So in what sence is he God? Can there be God in another sence?
WJ,
Love ya brother (or is it sister? Your avatar is male), but this has to be one of the weakest explanations I've seen yet.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 07 2007,09:46)
KImagine that “We exist through him”! The one by whom all things were created and without him nothing was made that was made.
We exist through him because he was the propitiation for ours sins. He is the means to the Father. We exist for God, the Father, because He created Man to serve and worship Him.John 3:17 – “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.“
Romans 5:9 – Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
Ephesians 2:18 – for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.
Hebrews 7:25 – Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.And I love this one because it squashes those who say “It says we should worship God alone, so Jesus must be God”.
Hebrews 13:15 – Through Him then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name.
In other words, we are able to worship God through Christ! And we can do that because he is our intercessor, our mediator, our access to the Throne of God.
Quote Since the Father doesn't have a NT name, or if someone knows it please tell me! Paul as well as the other writers of the NT scriptures for the sake of not promoting Polytheism or Modalism ascribed the title God to the Father and Lord to Jesus in most cases.
Are you saying that you have some insight into the mind and heart of Paul? Cool! Oh wait, that is not a feasible statement.Yes, he has a name, its call “God the Father”. And you're basically saying that Paul and the others were deliberately hiding the truth of the Trinity? That's a bold assertion WJ.
So what you are telling us here is that since God is called the Father, and Jesus is God, then Jesus is really the Father. I thought you believed in the Trinity? I think Father=Jesus is some other doctrine.
Quote If you are going to use the model that the only “One God” applies only to the Father and the “One Lord” only applies to Jesus, then you have to say The Father is not Lord! If you say that the “One Lord” can also apply to the Father, then you cant say the “One God” can not apply to Jesus. It will take some research, but where does it say that God would be our only Lord? We have many lords, and Jesus is Lord. When you see LORD in the OT, it is Yahweh, not the same as Lord in the NT.
Quote The Father “from whom are all things and we exist for Him”
Yep, He created us to worship and give Him glory.Quote Jesus “by whom are all things, and we exist through Him”
Yep, we exist through Christ through his death on the cross. It has given those who have salvation eternal life. He is the mediator (through) to the Father.Quote Yet we read in another place that “All things were made by him and for him” meaning Jesus! And yet we see all things are “Through God”
Rom 11:36
For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
I see no problem with this. Jesus existed as the Word before his earthly ministry. He was with the Father since before time. He was the means by which all things were made. Does not make him the Yahweh.Quote So 1 Cor 8:6 reads. yet for us there is but one God,
The Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him;
and
The Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him
This of course is the model scripture for the Henotheist and Arians and Unitarians.
But this verse in no way proves Jesus is not God.
If you truly believe what you are saying, then you believe Jesus is the Father. Again, that is some other doctrine, not the Trinity. See, even you don't believe the Trinity.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2007,03:16) Quote (kejonn @ July 08 2007,03:07) Hello all, Why is this body of Christ, the Church, called the Bride of Christ? My first response before we go farther is if we are the Bride of Christ, and Christ is God, are we not then the Bride of God? No, that is not scriptural and just another indication that belief that Jesus is God falls short. But we'll leave that aspect alone.
Who were the first man and wife? Adam and Eve. Both human. The simplest answer then is that we are the Bride of Christ because of our shared humanity. That is why we are not the Bride of God. It is also the reason that we are allowed access to the Throne of God, and why Jesus said (John 14:6) “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”
KIsa 54:5
For thy Maker is *thine husband*; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
Are you a child of Israel, one of God's chosen people? No? Then you are misapplying this verse to the Church. The Church is the New Covenant Bride of Christ.For 30 pieces of silver I'll tell you the answer to all your questions.
God the Father, creator of all things made His Son who is considered to be the Word from the beginning, because in His Son, everything will be fulfilled.
His Son is physical proof of the Spirit of whence He came, thereby testifying that the Father is One.
When Y'shua testifies that He and His Father are one, He says that the Spirit of His Father was fully vested in Him, by His Father. Once that Spirit was vested in Him it made a real connection from the Father to the Son, so that we who believe in the Son have full access to the Father. Y'shua gave the Spirit of the Father to us the people.
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